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90115534
Someone is sabotaging me.Finding out who
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA
reply to Babar

Re: [Newsgroups] Newsgroups and DMCA Takedowns

said by Babar:

Such as?

I don't know if I should tell you are not because I don't know if you are a spy. I will say anyway.

Newsleecher Supersearch of course. Newsgroup header indexing sites like binsearch, etc.


Babar
Premium
join:2001-05-09
Washington
Oh, OK.

It sounded like you had some super stealthy solution...

Babar, non-spy
--
"Geez, I'm goin' crazy out there at the lake."


90115534
Someone is sabotaging me.Finding out who
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA
said by Babar:

Oh, OK.

It sounded like you had some super stealthy solution...

Babar, non-spy

For some it may be. Those who don't know newsgroups.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
How does binsearch bypass DMCA? You still have to pull the articles from your provider in the end so if it doesn't have it, you are shit out of luck.

nynjspeed

join:2001-09-10
Howell, NJ
reply to AndrewW
giganews has turned out to be a pos...there's stuff just 20 days old that already isn't available...not good for the $25/mo package i'm paying now...

Astraweb is the way to go now i take it?
--
"...life is a state of mind......."

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to sandman_1
said by sandman_1:

How does binsearch bypass DMCA? You still have to pull the articles from your provider in the end so if it doesn't have it, you are shit out of luck.

I would like to know as well!

Earlier you mentioned that Astraweb has problems filling posts in a certain age range. Why then does it not have peering arrangements with other providers to fill those gaps?

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to nynjspeed
said by nynjspeed:

giganews has turned out to be a pos...there's stuff just 20 days old that already isn't available...not good for the $25/mo package i'm paying now...

Astraweb is the way to go now i take it?

I'm not sure that Astraweb is the way to go at least for me. For some weird reason I keep getting this stalling issue with them which I have never been able to resolve. Be that as it may, a lot of people are switching over to Astraweb and report they are able to download a lot of the stuff which is just unavailable on Giganews but it certainly isn't nirvana. I'm testing out Ngroups right now and I'm trying to get this 128 day old post of a major release that was not available on Highwinds or some of the other providers including GN. Ngroups is trying to download it through Astraweb. I guess they have a peering arrangement with them and it is missing from Astraweb as well.


swintec
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said by AndrewW:

Ngroups is trying to download it through Astraweb. I guess they have a peering arrangement with them and it is missing from Astraweb as well.

That is not how it works. It sounds like you have a newsreader (probably SabNZB) that shows MSG IDs in the logs / status tab. This just reflects who the article was posted through originally, not who it is downloading from.
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AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
said by swintec:

said by AndrewW:

Ngroups is trying to download it through Astraweb. I guess they have a peering arrangement with them and it is missing from Astraweb as well.

That is not how it works. It sounds like you have a newsreader (probably SabNZB) that shows MSG IDs in the logs / status tab. This just reflects who the article was posted through originally, not who it is downloading from.

You're right. I do use Sabnzbd+ and I guess I misinterpreted the domain name in the connections tab. Thanks for pointing that out. Regardless, the post I 'm trying to get is still most likely missing from Astraweb given the fact that it was not there a few weeks ago when I tried to download it from them.

unoriginal
Premium
join:2000-07-12
San Diego, CA
reply to AndrewW
It always pays to have a back up server to use as well. But first do you have the US server as primary and the EU one as a backup in sabnzbd? If not, I would do that first.

Second you can get a free account from xsusenet to help fill in the gaps: »www.xsusenet.com/en/

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
said by unoriginal:

It always pays to have a back up server to use as well. But first do you have the US server as primary and the EU one as a backup in sabnzbd? If not, I would do that first.

Second you can get a free account from xsusenet to help fill in the gaps: »www.xsusenet.com/en/

I do something along similar lines except I generally use the EU servers as primary. I find the performance hit is minimal, if any, with the EU servers nearly saturating my line most of the time. The problem with fill servers I am finding is that some posts(not very many but a few) are missing from multiple providers which means you need multiple fill servers to have a shot at filling some of these posts. The one I mentioned above, which is actually 139 days old, is on xsusenet, which I have as one of my fill servers I my add, but unfortunately some of the files are corrupt and there are no pars to repair it with.

Bark

join:2006-03-19
Grand Junction, CO
IM the 139 day post and I'll take a look.


swintec
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said by Bark:

IM the 139 day post and I'll take a look.

The post didn't appear to have any recovery files posted with it either so that does not help things.
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Bark

join:2006-03-19
Grand Junction, CO
reply to AndrewW
There is an issue that SABnzbd+ and XSusenet are not playing nicely together, I'm trying to get it resolved.

sandman_1

join:2011-04-23
11111
reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW:

said by sandman_1:

How does binsearch bypass DMCA? You still have to pull the articles from your provider in the end so if it doesn't have it, you are shit out of luck.

I would like to know as well!

Earlier you mentioned that Astraweb has problems filling posts in a certain age range. Why then does it not have peering arrangements with other providers to fill those gaps?

They do. They are slowly filling in the gap but it is taking awhile to do for whatever reason. Also I think the only time that they actually try to fill in the gaps is when they do maintenance on Sundays.

But anyway, nowadays, you gotta have something backing up your main account because not one provider is totally 100% rock-solid. They all have their quirks. My XSUsenet account is filling that function just fine. Although it doesn't hurt getting a block account with say Blocknews or somebody.

said by Bark:

There is an issue that SABnzbd+ and XSusenet are not playing nicely together, I'm trying to get it resolved.

My friend uses SABNZBd and can't connect to their server either. I use Newsbin and have no problems.

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to Bark
said by Bark:

There is an issue that SABnzbd+ and XSusenet are not playing nicely together, I'm trying to get it resolved.

How exactly does this bad behaviour manifest itself? Although its slow and sometimes I notice a fail to connect, it seems to work with my SABnzbd for the most part.

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to swintec
said by swintec:

said by Bark:

IM the 139 day post and I'll take a look.

The post didn't appear to have any recovery files posted with it either so that does not help things.

Success at last!!! None of the paid servers I tried could fill this 139 day old post. It took the combined might of 2 freebee servers, just4today and xsusenet to successfully snag this bad boy. After failing to extract after a second download I once again replaced the corrupted files from a more recent post I found using Binsearch and Eureka, and this time a successful extraction! I was under the impression that just4today's retention was 10 days. Apparently it's a lot better. The speed of the two together was not too bad at about 555KB/sec which is quite a bit faster then when I tested just4today a couple of years ago.

Bark

join:2006-03-19
Grand Junction, CO
reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW:

...the post I 'm trying to get is still most likely missing from Astraweb given the fact that it was not there a few weeks ago when I tried to download it from them.

This part I don't understand because the post that you IM'd is in fine shape on Astraweb. I don't think you want to habitually download 14 GB posts from J4T+XSU and wait... wait... wait for it to finish, or do you?

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
No, I definitely do not want to wait. I like it very much when a Usenet provider can saturate my line which means over 3MB/s and not the 555KB/s the Just4today/xsusenet setup gives you. As I said before it didn't work for me previously on Astraweb but this may be related to my weird stalling issue with Astraweb. Besides, Astraweb is there any provider that offers over 1200 day retention and ignores DMCA notices?


swintec
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Alfred, ME
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said by AndrewW:

and ignores DMCA notices?

No provider ignores them and Astra does get them, at least from forum chatter I have seen in the gaming area. Some may not GET them that much or at all, but none would ignore them.
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90115534
Someone is sabotaging me.Finding out who
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA
said by swintec:

said by AndrewW:

and ignores DMCA notices?

No provider ignores them and Astra does get them, at least from forum chatter I have seen in the gaming area. Some may not GET them that much or at all, but none would ignore them.

Yep otherwise they could get sued or taken down. DMCA is what protects newsgroups from staying afloat.


Stem Bolt
Aka Smiling Bob
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2
reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW:

Besides, Astraweb is there any provider that offers over 1200 day retention and ignores DMCA notices?

Like Swintec said, no provider ignores them.

Your best bet is other then Astraweb, is a Readnews reseller. A reseller like Usenetnow.net / Blocknews.net. Readnews generally has better completion. Not saying they don't get DMCA, just that they don't appear to be nearly as heavily hit as many other providers.

Also, the Dutch providers might be another option. They also appear to not be as heavily hit by DMCA.


90115534
Someone is sabotaging me.Finding out who
Premium
join:2001-06-03
Kenner, LA
reply to AndrewW
I imagine a day in the future where we all have to go with overseas newsgroup providers.

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to swintec
said by swintec:

No provider ignores them and Astra does get them, at least from forum chatter I have seen in the gaming area. Some may not GET them that much or at all, but none would ignore them.

So a European Usenet provider operating in and serving its domestic market cannot ignore DMCA notices. I take it that this is because of some reason other then being subject to US law?

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
reply to 90115534
said by 90115534:

I imagine a day in the future where we all have to go with overseas newsgroup providers.

How would that help? Unless I misunderstood Swintec, all Usenet providers including those overseas cannot ignore DMCA notices.


Stem Bolt
Aka Smiling Bob
Premium
join:2002-11-08
Cleveland, OH
kudos:2
said by AndrewW:

said by 90115534:

I imagine a day in the future where we all have to go with overseas newsgroup providers.

How would that help? Unless I misunderstood Swintec, all Usenet providers including those overseas cannot ignore DMCA notices.

I'm only speculating but if an European usenet provider doesn't have a physical presence here in North America (servers, offices, ect.) then it's more difficult to "threaten" them with DMCA. There are no servers to confiscate. No offices to "raid". No assets that can be frozen, ect. Notices can be sent to Amsterdam but if they don't comply and remove stuff, what then? The DMCA groups are not a law enforcement entity (police).

Who are they going to call? Interpol?

AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
Exactly, that's what I think as well. My understanding is that the EU has a Copyright Directive, but that's a directive only. Each of their member countries have to pass legislation within their respective countries to implement it. I don't see how the DMCA notice would bother any EU Usenet provider. It certainly wouldn't carry the force of law in any EU country.


swintec
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reply to AndrewW
said by AndrewW:

said by swintec:

No provider ignores them and Astra does get them, at least from forum chatter I have seen in the gaming area. Some may not GET them that much or at all, but none would ignore them.

So a European Usenet provider operating in and serving its domestic market cannot ignore DMCA notices. I take it that this is because of some reason other then being subject to US law?

Well..I meant US based providers. But, look at it this way...the largest usenet provider in the world who was based solely in europe, was taken offline last year by court order. The other providers over there were and are crapping there pants over that ruling as no one knows where it is going to go from there. DMCA removals to me are the preferred method, I'm sure others agree. The grass isn't always greener.
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AndrewW

join:2009-03-07
Toronto, ON
kudos:1
said by swintec:

Well..I meant US based providers. But, look at it this way...the largest usenet provider in the world who was based solely in europe, was taken offline last year by court order. The other providers over there were and are crapping there pants over that ruling as no one knows where it is going to go from there. DMCA removals to me are the preferred method, I'm sure others agree. The grass isn't always greener.

I assume you are referring to the BREIN vs NSE case where the district court of Amsterdam ruled last September that the notice and takedown procedure was inadequate because it would still leave the Usenet provider with a small retention window within which substantial damage to the copyright holder could still take place. Now that's the Netherlands and the authority of that court ends at the Dutch border. So if they're crapping their pants in the Netherlands it doesn't mean they need to be crapping their pants in all the 27 countries that constitute the EU or the 50 countries within Europe. Each country has its own version of copyright law, what constitutes copyright infringement, and judicial interpretation.

How can DMCA removals be the preferred method as they decimate the servers of Usenet providers of any and all content worth having?


swintec
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join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
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Amsterdam (netherlands) is very rich in connectivity which is why you see the majority of Usenet servers there, fast, "cheap", great peering, etc.

said by AndrewW:

How can DMCA removals be the preferred method as they decimate the servers of Usenet providers of any and all content worth having?

In this big rat race, I would rather have DMCA than no servers at all. Lots of discussion still goes on. Sucks we have gotten to this point, but I am not sure what the solution is. Get rid of NZB Indexers that make things easy? Make a Usenet Island in the middle of the Pacific where everything runs? I dunno...
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