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CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to bjf123

Re: Villota update...

Just found this out on another forum - I think there is little to no chance F1 will be on regular NBC and I don't know if my Dish plan has NBC sports. I won't upgrade just for F1 - already pay enough. Also can't image they would carry anything but the US races live.

»jalopnik.com/5951245/speed-will-···od-thing
The above also notes that Fox will change the Speed format from all racing as well to general sports.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to CylonRed

Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....

»uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/arre···203.html

Mallya also in hot water and KingFisher is not close top making a profit.... Wonder how much longer Force India will be around...

quote:
The warrant, which is non-bailable, relates to bounced cheques Mallya's Kingfisher airline issued to the operator of Hyderabad International Airport.

The cheques, for a reported $2million, were meant to settle user fees at the airport.

"The cases were listed today for the airline to appear in the court," a spokesman for the complainant is quoted as saying by AFP.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


bjf123
We Want... A Shrubbery
Premium
join:2000-02-11
Hamilton, OH
reply to CylonRed
I'll bet NBC puts it on NBC Sports Network, which is 603 on my DirecTV. They'd be able to do most of them live since they're on at 8:00 AM in the Eastern time zone. Looking at the schedule for this weekend, they've got hunting and gun related shows on then. I just hope they get a decent broadcast team. I hope they don't do like Fox and have some summer races on tape delay edited down to fit a time slot. Time will tell.

Will Buxton just found out via Twitter that Speed has apparently lost the rights for next year. He's not a happy camper.
--
Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
I would have to go to the next higher package with Dish for NBC sports - and I am not going to do that.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK
reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

Mallya also in hot water and KingFisher is not close top making a profit.... Wonder how much longer Force India will be around...

not good...
--
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Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK

3 edits
reply to CylonRed
Please delete this post.


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to CylonRed
Qualifying was s bit odd - do have to wonder if the stewards will look at the cars making their fast lap in Q3 when there was a yellow right near the end of the lap. Button seemed to the only one who slowed but that might have been more his bad lap than slowing.

Mercedes team penalized for unsafe release from his pit in Q3 for the final lap. Came out in front of Hamilton and slowed - Hamilton had to take evasive action to keep from hitting him.

Kinda sad to see Sauber in the back again but shows that their car is really suited for the fast tracks than a slower twisty track. They really need to get the car to work on the slower tracks without losing on the fast tracks.

Do have to wonder if Webber will allow Vettel though - kinda odd that Webber took the pole when Vettel seemed be the class of the field all weekend.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
Welll, well, well - 2 Lotus (Loti?), a Force India and BOTH Toro Rosso's all finish ahead of both McLarewn's whose wheels have come off again for the second time this year... Although to be fair - Button had a problem with Koby who drove over his head at the start (maybe Grojean's spirit moving on??? )

Massa had a great race - wonder why the team did not want him too close to Alonso? Worried Alonso would not keep his head in the game? If that is the case then he should not longer be driving.

Gotta wonder if Lewis's team is just phoning in the races now and for the previous race...

Going to be an interesting couple of races for sure....
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


CylonRed
Premium,MVM
join:2000-07-06
Bloom County

Assorted F1 news...

»uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/nbc-···545.html

quote:
Formula One Management has confirmed that the NBC Sports group will be the exclusive Formula 1 broadcaster in the United States for the next four years.

FOM said the NBC Sports group will broadcast all 20 races of the 2013 season - four on NBC and 16 on NBC Sports Network - as well as practice sessions and qualifying.
I go from being able to watch ALL of the races, FP2, and qual to seeing 4 races.

»uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/mass···spt.html
quote:
LONDON (Reuters) - Felipe Massa will stay at Ferrari for the 2013 season in an unchanged lineup with Fernando Alonso, the Italian Formula One team said in a statement on Tuesday.

The Brazilian has struggled for form in recent years but has agreed a one-year extension amid continued speculation that world champion Sebastian Vettel could join Alonso at Ferrari from 2014.

Alonso's contract runs to the end of 2016.

"The team and also all the fans can rest assured that I will do all in my power to help the Scuderia reach the targets it sets itself each year," Massa said on the Ferrari website (www.ferrari.com).
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


bjf123
We Want... A Shrubbery
Premium
join:2000-02-11
Hamilton, OH
said by CylonRed:

I go from being able to watch ALL of the races, FP2, and qual to seeing 4 races.

Well that sucks. Who's your cable / satellite provider? I've got both NBCSN and Speed as part of the same package on DirecTV.
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CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
Dish Network - I would have to go to the next highest package only for F1... Not willing to do that just for F1.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK

1 edit
said by CylonRed:

...
Not willing to do that just for F1.

I wonder how many other US F1 fans feel the same.

If the Concorde Agreement wasn't secret we'd at least know whether or not forcing fans to upgrade their TV subscriptions to watch F1 would break it. I have a feeling NBC would be required to show it on a non-premium channel as part of the contract*.

Bernie is fighting to get F1 into the US so I don't understand why he should make a deal with a TV company that would, potentially, reduce TV viewing audiences.

* On second thoughts I'm almost certain it would be a requirement.
--
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bjf123
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Hamilton, OH
It depends on how they looked at it. I just did a quick look at Comcast, TimeWarner, DirecTV, and Dish channel guides, which probably covers most people in the US. For Comcast and DirecTV, NBCSN is in the same package as Speed, so it's a non event for those people. For TW and Dish, NBCSN is one level up from the one that includes Speed.

Do I remember concerns in Great Britain that the current deal which moved the races from BBC to another network (Sky?) was going to result in F1 ultimately moving to pay per view? I doubt if Bernie really cares once a network in a country has paid him his insane fees.
--
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CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Pjr
I think the only thing that matters to Bernie is how much anyone was willing to pay. I believe that is Versus offered $1 million more than NBC they would have gotten the rights.

He does not have to worry about ratings as much as NBC - as long as they find some value to the money spent - he doesn't care if the ratings go down.

Though I think the other side is that NBC might be willing to pay more for promotion of the sport, than Fox was willing to spend or Bernie thinks they would spend. God knows what NBC told Bernie about how many households they are in...
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK

2 edits
reply to bjf123
said by bjf123:

Do I remember concerns in Great Britain that the current deal which moved the races from BBC to another network (Sky?) was going to result in F1 ultimately moving to pay per view? I doubt if Bernie really cares once a network in a country has paid him his insane fees.

Yes, you do. I'll break this reply down into bite size chunks if only so I can be sure I include all the important points.

The BBC had the full rights until 2011 but with the contract up for renewal Sky outbid them.

The Concorde Agreement forbids the broadcast rights from going to subscription/pay for TV solely.

Because the Sky offer was so good the negotiations between the F1 commercial rights holder, the BBC and Sky centred around a way of allowing Sky to win the contract but keep the sport on free TV. Channel 4 also made a bid but the BBC/C4 combined bid wasn't as good as the BBC/Sky combined bid. C4 is free-to-air.

This is what was decided:

Sky could show all the races, all quali and all practices live.

The BBC are allowed to show 10 races and all the qualifying and practices associated with them live. They also show highlights of the remaining races including highlights of the qualifying but no practice sessions.
--
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Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK

1 edit
reply to CylonRed
The Concorde Agreement covers the financial affairs of F1. It states how the income is split between the FIA, the F1 teams as well as stipulating the prize money for the teams and drivers*.

Sponsorship is essential to F1 (as it is to most sports) and without it F1 would die or at least exist in a form much smaller and very different to how it is now.

The sponsors see the cars as moving advertisements and want their names on as many TV screens as possible. If the viewing figures fall because the sport is only shown on pay for TV the sponsors wont be willing to spend as much money therefore the teams lose income.

Bernie is only interested in making money but he realises that just taking the biggest offers is not always for the best in the long term.

The F1 teams were fully against Sky being the sole F1 broadcaster in the UK because they know sponsorship will fall.

* »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concorde_Agreement is a better description than I will ever be able to give.

Edit: I've just found this article on the BBC.
quote:
The Concorde Agreement is secret - so secret that the teams are not even allowed to retain their own copy - but it is known that it contains a clause which dictates that, in major territories, F1 has to be broadcast on free-to-air television.

The reason for this is that free-to-air TV has much bigger audiences than pay-per-view, and the bigger the audience, the greater the chance of bigger sponsorship deals and therefore financial security and, for the teams, on-track success.

Take F1 off free-to-air TV and the audience would shrink dramatically. The smaller the audience, the less keen sponsors are to be involved, and the less money those that are involved would pay to the teams and Ecclestone.

So perhaps the US doesn't have a big enough fan base for the Concorde Agreement to apply but F1 and Bernie still want to break into the US market because they know that it is worth millions. By limiting the viewing audience they are making it harder for themselves to achieve the break through.
--
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Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK

2 edits
reply to bjf123
said by bjf123:

It depends on how they looked at it. I just did a quick look at Comcast, TimeWarner, DirecTV, and Dish channel guides, which probably covers most people in the US. For Comcast and DirecTV, NBCSN is in the same package as Speed, so it's a non event for those people. For TW and Dish, NBCSN is one level up from the one that includes Speed.

Thanks for the explanation. I didn't know how it was organised. It would be interesting to know how many fans would have to upgrade. Not that I'm asking you to research the answer for me
--
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CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Pjr
Question is - do ALL races have to be free to air broadcast - or only some? With Sky - sounds like Bernie opened the door for some tobe the correct answer...

My brother would say that Speed has a far smaller audience than any major network and point out drag racing went no where till they got on ESPN(2). He would also point out that outside of Speed - Fox/Speed does not or did not promote the sport at all.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK
said by CylonRed:

Question is - do ALL races have to be free to air broadcast - or only some? With Sky - sounds like Bernie opened the door for some tobe the correct answer...

Good question. My understanding was that it had to be all races but not knowing what the current CA actually says your guess is as good as mine.

The CA finishes at the end of this year or this season (I'm not sure which) and the new CA is apparently ready to be signed; it would be interesting to know whether the TV rights clause(s) will have changed or not.

My brother would say that Speed has a far smaller audience than any major network and point out drag racing went no where till they got on ESPN(2). He would also point out that outside of Speed - Fox/Speed does not or did not promote the sport at all.

Your brother? In that case it could be that moving to NBC is in the best interests of the sport and losing some of the old fans is outweighed by gaining a potentially larger audience with a channel prepared to promote F1.
--
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CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
quote:
Your brother? In that case it could be that moving to NBC is in the best interests of the sport and losing some of the old fans is outweighed by gaining a potentially larger audience with a channel prepared to promote F1.
That is his argument on why they moved and why it is best for F1... Now - is he a TV exec - nope - just like you and me - a racing fan.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


bjf123
We Want... A Shrubbery
Premium
join:2000-02-11
Hamilton, OH
reply to Pjr
said by Pjr:

quote:
The Concorde Agreement is secret - so secret that the teams are not even allowed to retain their own copy - but it is known that it contains a clause which dictates that, in major territories, F1 has to be broadcast on free-to-air television.

Maybe we're not a major territory and just thought of as those revolutionaries across the pond. In terms of actual F1 viewership, we probably are small compared to the rest of the world.
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Pjr
Don't Panic

join:2005-12-11
UK
I agree that the US is a major territory in terms of size but how do they define major in the CA? By the number of fans or by population? If it is by population then the contract would require NBC to broadcast F1 on the cheapest package available.

You'll have to excuse any silly wording I used last night. I was half asleep while posting.

CeylonRed: your brother's opinion is as valid as mine. Whatever happens with F1 coverage I hope NBC do the decent thing and broadcast on a channel you, and everyone else, can see.
--
Overflow error in /dev/null


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to CylonRed

Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....

First lap of new Circuit of the Americas:

»uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/form···271.html

quote:
On November 18, the purpose-built venue will host the first US Grand Prix since Indianapolis in 2007.

"It's very green, as you could expect," Andretti, the 1978 Formula One world champion, told Reuters. "You get offline a bit - it's a bit slippery. But that's normal for a new circuit. Overall, my impression is absolutely fantastic."

Texas elected officials and actor Patrick Dempsey, who competes in the GRAND-AM Rolex Sports Car Series, were on hand for the first-lap ceremony on a hot, sunny afternoon.

Andretti, a Circuit of the Americas ambassador, ceremonially cut a ribbon of chequered flags from a Lotus 79 Cosworth racing car and then zoomed up a steep hill toward the hairpin Turn 1.

"That's my designated signature corner," said Andretti, who had initially been scheduled to drive a Lotus R30 Formula 1 car before that plan was aborted because of a mechanical problem.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to bjf123
quote:
They'd be able to do most of them live since they're on at 8:00 AM in the Eastern time zone.
All of the races arelive on Speed - virtually none are shown at 8 AM Eastern time. This weeks race is at 4:30 or 5 Am. The last one was at 1 or 2 AM.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
reply to Pjr
said by Pjr:

said by CylonRed:

Mallya also in hot water and KingFisher is not close top making a profit.... Wonder how much longer Force India will be around...

not good...

Arrest warrant was withdrawn... Apparently it got him to notice...
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


bjf123
We Want... A Shrubbery
Premium
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Hamilton, OH
reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

All of the races arelive on Speed - virtually none are shown at 8 AM Eastern time. This weeks race is at 4:30 or 5 Am. The last one was at 1 or 2 AM.

All of the races in Europe, plus the night race at Singapore, and maybe the Abu Dhabi and Bahrain are 8:00 Eastern. The ones in the Pacific and India are middle of the night. Brazil and Canada are early afternoon. No idea what time Russia will be next year.
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Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
11 out of 20 this year -barely half are at 8 AM. I would not say it is most of them but more than I thought.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
Indian GP

Rather boring race - even in the mi-pack. Vettel took off and that was all she wrote. Would LOVE to know what Red Bull has found... Mercedes is lost and McLaren needs to figure out the tires though they ran a lot better.

The most interesting part - sadly- was the 5 wheel change for Hamilton. 5 wheels in 3.3 seconds...
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


CylonRed
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join:2000-07-06
Bloom County
My, my, my - this could be one interesting race....

Vettel qualifying was disallowed after he stopped on track. He will start from the pit lane.
»uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/abu-···342.html

quote:
Post-qualifying checks found there was an insufficient quantity of fuel left in the car to take a sample - only 850 millilitres instead of the mandatory one litre.

Horner said engine partners Renault were convinced the rest of the fuel was still in the tank but the team had taken the car out of 'parc ferme', where the cars cannot be worked on, to carry out further checks, meaning Vettel would start in the pit lane and not at the back of the grid.....

Vettel's grid position was questioned after his team and their Renault technicians ordered him to stop immediately on the track as he headed back to the pits after the chequered flag.

Red Bull were summoned to stewards to explain why the car had not been driven back to the pits under its own power, the same failing that sent Hamilton to the back of the grid at the Spanish Grand Prix after he had qualified fastest.
Maldonado had a great run and so did Kimi. Odd that Button is so far back though. Ferrari seems to be lost again.
--
Brian

"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank.... driven by Rosanne Barr..." A. Bourdain


bjf123
We Want... A Shrubbery
Premium
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Hamilton, OH
reply to CylonRed
said by CylonRed:

11 out of 20 this year -barely half are at 8 AM. I would not say it is most of them but more than I thought.

And less than I thought. I guess I'm remembering back when the only races not in Europe and on at 8:00 Eastern were Australia, Japan, Canada, and Brazil, long before Bernie started chasing the big bucks in the Pacific Rim, Middle East, and India.

The race tomorrow should be interesting with Vettel starting from the pits. Alonso needs to get on the podium and hope Vettel gets no higher than 9th or 10th, or finished out of the points (doubtful).
--
Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.