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<title>Topic &#x27;[Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....&#x27; in forum &#x27;Sports Chat&#x27; - dslreports.com</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27017541</link>
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<language>en</language>
<pubDate>Sun, 26 May 2013 22:55:21 EDT</pubDate>
<lastBuildDate>Sun, 26 May 2013 22:55:21 EDT</lastBuildDate>

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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27770108</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : They clearly explained it on Sky... Seb was flying when he saw the Yellow lights he slowed down but because Toro Rosso was already a lot slower vettel just coasted passed him. Both Vettel's times and Toro Rosso's times were way off their fastest on that lap... There's no places gained on that for Vettel.<br><br>RBR now Infinity Red Bull &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/25/infiniti-red-bull-title-sponsor/" >www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/11/25/i&middot;&middot;&middot;sponsor/</A>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 21:45:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27769933</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : I dunno - there were 2 explanations it seems - reflection of the Pirelli sign and a track condition light.  Now when the world feed showed a replay - the yellow was pretty far off the track it seemed to me but it was blurry as well.<br><br>Bob mentioned he had not heard about track condition lights and I have not either but that really does not mean a lot....<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 20:44:16 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27769598</link>
<description><![CDATA[Soho97UK posted : They think it's all over ... but maybe not according to Ferrari -<br><br><div class="bquote"><p>Ferrari want to establish whether there is enough evidence to lodge a protest that, if successful, could overturn the result of the world championship.<br><br>Ferrari are "evaluating footage" that appears to show Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel making an illegal overtaking move in Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.<br><br>Fernando Alonso lost the title by three points to Vettel after finishing second for Ferrari and the German sixth.<br>Governing body the FIA refused to confirm whether it was investigating.<br><br>Red Bull could not be reached. ...<br><br><A HREF="http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638" >Full article and video...</A><br></p></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2012 18:47:14 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27763070</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : I have not realized that about Johnny until I rewatched it again... But, I guess I do not mind that. The thing I love about the drivers are that they will tell you the lines and which driver is ...<br><br>The thing that made me like Johnny even more was when everyone was ripping Grojean. He came out and said clearly that every driver does this, examples himself, Hamilton, Skewmy, Alonso all with videos of scenes and explaining that all they need is to step out that slump as all the F1 drivers do. They are after all the worlds greatest drivers. ;)]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 22:14:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27762949</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : Only one that I know of who filled in was Leigh Diffey...<br><br>&raquo;<A HREF="http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-speed-thanks-formula-one-fans/" >formula-one.speedtv.com/article/&middot;&middot;&middot;ne-fans/</A><br><br> <BLOCKQUOTE><SMALL>quote:</SMALL><HR>I&#8217;d be remiss if I didn&#8217;t acknowledge other folks who have called races on SPEED. Rick DeBruhl took over for Bob Varsha for 2 years in 2002 and 2003 while Bob covered the CART Series. Greg Creamer filled in for a few races as well over the years. Bobby Rahal and Townsend Bell did a terrific job when asked to fill in for David Hobbs, and Westbury Gillett covered for Will at the beginning of 2010. I would say that Leigh Diffey has filled in for Varsha since 2004, but referring to Leigh as a &#8220;fill-in&#8221; would do him a disservice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><br><br>Hmmmm - Maybe Townsend Bell?  Can't remember what his voice was like though.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 21:37:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27762733</link>
<description><![CDATA[Warzau posted : It was bittersweet seeing the last race.  I liked it and was full of action. Seeing Sam it was sad how he appeared with Parkisons. I also   have my opinions of announcers. I remember once 3 or so years ago they really had a annoying announcer, I can't remember name, who was filling in. YIPES.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 20:22:59 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27762673</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : Hobbs is ok - not much of an issue for me.  Matchett would have been the real loss - the technical information he has and can get is far better than any drivers I have seen make comments.  <br><br>I might like Sky but since I can't get it - it is a moot point.  <br><br>Technically I liked Peter Windsor better as Will gets a little to over the top with pumping up the races before and after...<br><br>The driver I dislike the most doing racing commentary is Johnny Herbert - just his style of talking and stuttering drives me nuts.  <br><br>I do like Leigh Diffey - love the accent. :)  Bob can still do stuff for the Speed Center and Wind Tunnel - at least I hope as I like Bob...<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 20:03:07 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27762623</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : Eddie Jordan and Hobbs ought to get a show together and tell the world what they really think... lol I care less for him as well and feel really bad for Coulthard as his commentating is superb and I know that he is making the big bucks. But having to deal with Eddie, not sure if it's worth any money.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 19:45:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27762227</link>
<description><![CDATA[cbrigante2 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/885989" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=885989');">Da Geek Kid</a>:</said><p>after watching a yr of sky f1 online, nothing beats their commentating and information. I am definitely tired of senile Hobbs commenting on things he fell asleep on...<br><br>The Sky crew, Martin Brundle, Damon Hill, Johnny Herbert and the sky tech talker Anthony Davidson with Georgie Thompson, seriously blow away anything SPEED ever did. You cannot find better package than that even the after show with Ted Kravitz is extremely informative.<br> </p></div>Agreed, although I do like the BBC feed as well.  Trying to stick with Sky since that is where the future broadcasts will be.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 17:36:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27761522</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : after watching a yr of sky f1 online, nothing beats their commentating and information. I am definitely tired of senile Hobbs commenting on things he fell asleep on...<br><br>The Sky crew, Martin Brundle, Damon Hill, Johnny Herbert and the sky tech talker Anthony Davidson with Georgie Thompson, seriously blow away anything SPEED ever did. You cannot find better package than that even the after show with Ted Kravitz is extremely informative.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 14:27:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27760946</link>
<description><![CDATA[bjf123 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/170109" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=170109');">CylonRed</a>:</said><p>Not sure how Vettel did not have more damage from his hit.  He did get hit 2 times - last to the rear wheel - really thought he had some suspension damage.</p></div>Agreed.  When I saw the replay of the impact, I don't know how he'd didn't have more damage.<br><br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/170109" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=170109');">CylonRed</a>:</said><p>Great race for Hulkenberg and Force India - not sure if I agree with his penalty - to me it was a racing incident.  Massa had a great race along with a great last half to the season.  Was not that many years ago that Massa spin 5-6 times in Brazil I believe int he rain - he has gotten to be a far better driver in the rain.<br><br>So long F1 and David Hobbs, Steve Machett, Will Buxton and Bob Varsha... </p></div>Agreed, again.  I think Hulkenberg's penalty was too much.  It really seemed like a racing incident on a wet track.  There was plenty of room between the cars and he spun just a little, but it was enough to hit another car.  Felipe certainly had a great second half to the season.  I hope Ferrari puts a better car under Alonso and Massa for next year.<br><br>I'm still hoping NBC Sports Network will hire Will Buxton.  I've really enjoyed his reports from the track.  He and Bob Varsha are the ones currently outside looking in.  Will tweeted a picture last night of him wearing a t-shirt saying "Unemployment = The New Freelance"  Varsha is still under contract with Speed, though there won't be that much for him to do without F1.  Barrett-Jackson and the ALMS races might be it.  Hobbs, Matchett, and Leigh Diffey will be calling the races for NBCSN, and apparently actually doing some calls from the tracks, instead of in studio like Speed.<br><br>Have you looked at switching to DirecTV?  You might be able to get NBCSN at a better price than Dish.<br><small>--<br>Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 11:36:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27760378</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : That is on the next tier up on Dish and I don't plan on upgrading just for F1....]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 08:39:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27760230</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/170109" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=170109');">CylonRed</a>:</said><p>Last F1 for 2012 is done and my last year I can watch all of the races. Watching 20 races this year to probably only 4 next year - not a happy camper. <br> </p></div>Nbc will be broadcasting all races through their network- NBC Sports Network. Thats my understanding, so you shouldn't have to worry.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:04:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27758900</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : Last F1 for 2012 is done and my last year I can watch all of the races. Watching 20 races this year to probably only 4 next year - not a happy camper. Good race in the rain - Vettel only the 3rd person in F1 history to win 3 consecutive drivers and manufacturer championships and by far the youngest (only 25 I believe). Good god - at 25 I just started college... :(<br><br>Ferrari had a great year with a sub-par car but yet Alonso was on the podium more than any other driver this year but finishes second in driver and manufacturer points. <br><br>Not sure how Vettel did not have more damage from his hit.  He did get hit 2 times - last to the rear wheel - really thought he had some suspension damage.<br><br>Would have been more interesting if Hamilton had been able to stay in the race.<br><br>Great race for Hulkenberg and Force India - not sure if I agree with his penalty - to me it was a racing incident.  Massa had a great race along with a great last half to the season.  Was not that many years ago that Massa spin 5-6 times in Brazil I believe int he rain - he has gotten to be a far better driver in the rain.<br><br>So long F1 and David Hobbs, Steve Machett, Will Buxton and Bob Varsha...<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=2 WIDTH=66%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27758900?c=2054004&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzAxNzU0MS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="41257 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=399 HEIGHT=501 SRC="/r0/download/2054004~6bce18488d8fb540b242c357106517fd/GP%20Brazil%20-%20Final.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2012 15:43:00 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27757586</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : Its caterham last chance to score a point or they will despite having the better car from the bottom 3 - will finish last and get the least traveling monies for next championship. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 21:47:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season nears the end</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-nears-the-end-27756494</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : This will be a most interesting race I think - who has the least amount of wing on the car but still drivable in the race if it rains..... a little bit or ......... a LOT?<br><br>It really does look like Red Bull have more wing than McLaren.  Possibly Webber has a bit less wing than Vettel - maybe Vettel is going a bit conservative.  From Q1 it looks like Ferrari might be just as fast as Red Bull in the wet.<br><br>Maldonado and Hulkenberg are looking good as well.   <br><br>HRT workers have reportedly been told this is the last race - workers at the race will get paid till they get home - everyone else has gotten pink slips unless a miracle happens.  Guys in the pits do look pretty dejected.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27756494?c=2053736&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzAxNzU0MS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="33141 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=411 HEIGHT=422 SRC="/r0/download/2053736~251505d35fb6b884acaad312a4c13186/GP%20Brazil%20-%20qual.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2012 12:59:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27753092</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : Vettel was disqualified from the Qualy. This means no parc ferme for vettel. They did modify the gearing over night as they did switch to the higher gears so that the top end would be fast so that the could catch up. This is the difference between watching SPEED vs Sky in UK. They clearly redid the car from ground up with a complete different setup to let him catch up with alonso... They even further went on to say that RBR are not sure it'll pass the FIA clearing at the end of the race. LOL. but it did, so no biggie there.<br><br>As for the amount of fuel used by the car under any condition is calculated to 100th of ml of fuel. This is so that they could be as close to the weight allowed as possible without going under. Every engine is tested with multi frequencies and the Super Computer in the Pit knows within the 2,3,4 laps that the gas is enough. There are ultimate rare cases where a driver may one ml of fuel extra for another lap that may be used. Everyone knows this is a gamble and many will not bet on it as Vettel/Hamilton had done before.<br><br>Just so we are clear. You do not have to qualify if your fastest time on Fri is within 104% of the times on Qualifying. Clearly there was no question that Vettel would start on Sunday.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 20:58:50 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27752031</link>
<description><![CDATA[Pjr posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/601352" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=601352');">ThirdShifter</a>:</said><p>The current rule allows team that are starting  from the pit to change the car settings.<br></p></div>I've read and re-read the detailed <a href=http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8685/fia.html>parc ferme rules</a> and can not see anything to support that comment.<br>The <a href=http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/rules_and_regulations/sporting_regulations/8685/>summarised version</a> reads:<br><div class="bquote"><p>However, the cars are deemed to be under parc ferme conditions for a much longer period - from the time they first exit the pits during qualifying until the start of the formation lap immediately prior to the race.<br><br>Under these conditions, the work teams may carry out on their cars is limited to strictly-specified routine procedures, which can only be performed under the watchful eye of the FIA Technical Delegate and race scrutineers. Fuel may be added to the cars, tyres changed and brakes bled. Minor front wing adjustments are also allowed, but little else. These controls mean that teams cannot make significant alterations to the set-up of a car between qualifying and the race.<br><br><b>The only exception to this is when there is a "change in climatic conditions"</b>, for example a dry qualifying session followed by a wet race, or vice versa. In this case the FIA will give the teams permission to make further appropriate changes to their cars.<br></p></div><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/601352" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=601352');">ThirdShifter</a>:</said><p>Also, The reason Vettel had to stop wasn't because he had ran out of fuel, but because he spent more fuel on his flying lap and didn't have enough for the required FIA fuel sample, proven when the investigation reveals that there was not enough fuel in the car to get him back to the pits and still have the minimum sample left for testing - Another part of the current rules/regulation.<br></p></div>OK, you got me there. When I said he ran out of fuel I meant he ran short of fuel. <br><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/601352" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=601352');">ThirdShifter</a>:</said><p>The attempted deceit caused their Q3 results to be DSQ - moving them to the 10th spot and then the steward also imposed another penalty for un-sportmanship by moving them to the back of the grid. <br></p></div>No. He was put at the back purely for the fuel problem.<br>From &raquo;<A HREF="http://www.crash.net/f1/news/185771/1/vettel_sent_to_back_of_the_grid_in_abu_dhabi.html" >www.crash.net/f1/news/185771/1/v&middot;&middot;&middot;abi.html</A><br><div class="bquote"><p>The Stewards received a report from the Race Director that car 1 failed to return to the pits under its own power as required under Article 6.6.2 of the FIA F1 Technical Regulations. <br><br>The Stewards heard from the driver and team representatives and studied telemetry evidence that showed the reason why the car was stopped. <br><br>The Stewards accepted the explanation and considered the incident as being a case of force majeure. <br><br>However a report was received from the Technical Delegate that showed during post-qualifying scrutineering an insufficient quantity of fuel for sampling purposes. <br><br>The Stewards determine that this is a breach of Article 6.6.2 of the FIA F1 Technical Regulations and the Competitor is accordingly excluded from the results of the Qualifying Session. <br><br>The Competitor is however allowed to start the race from the back of the grid.<br></p></div>Sorry it's taken so long to reply.<br><small>--<br>Overflow error in /dev/null</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2012 12:51:28 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27747288</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1300622" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1300622');">Pjr</a>:</said><p>What did Red Bull and Vettel gain by starting from the pit lane? If it was an advantage all the top teams would have followed suit leaving the back markers effectively at the front of the grid. Any team can elect to start from the pit lane just because they want to.<br><br>All the teams short-fuel the cars to some extent; why spend millions trying to increase lap times only to slow the cars down by over-fuelling them?<br> </p></div>They didn't gain any advantage as they intended to, but they did make the best of it.  The current rule allows team that are starting  from the pit to change the car settings. Hence, that RBR was setup very differently from the one that qualified- a huge advantage. I remember back when each team had a qualifying car and a race car. One built for lightweight & speed in mind, and the other for the long race.<br><br> I'm sure the stewards had already made recommendations banning such modification in the future or a rule change to put a disqualified car at the back of the grid and cannot to elect starting from pit - hence keeping all cars firmly in parc ferme.<br><br>Also, The reason Vettel had to stop wasn't because he had ran out of fuel, but because he spent more fuel on his flying lap and didn't have enough for the required FIA fuel sample, proven when the investigation reveals that there was not enough fuel in the car to get him back to the pits and still have the minimum sample left for testing - Another part of the current rules/regulation.<br><br>Lastly, the current formula allows for a maximum rpm that can be throttled significantly for fuel consumption .Vettel over used the fuel on qualification and RBR attempted to deceive the stewards (and audience) with a cry over the radio claiming the car must be stopped for mechanical reasons. The attempted deceit caused their Q3 results to be DSQ - moving them to the 10th spot and then the steward also imposed another penalty for un-sportmanship by moving them to the back of the grid. <br><br>RBR then chose to start from the pits - which is about another 2-3 second worth of a disadvantage but would remove them from the parc-ferme or any other first corner collision risk.<br><br>This has also happened on an earlier race where Mclaren did the exact same thing after the final qualification but they were not cunning enough to figure out that starting from the pits would be much more advantageous than just starting from the back. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 22:14:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27745564</link>
<description><![CDATA[Pjr posted : What did Red Bull and Vettel gain by starting from the pit lane? If it was an advantage all the top teams would have followed suit leaving the back markers effectively at the front of the grid. Any team can elect to start from the pit lane just because they want to.<br><br>All the teams short-fuel the cars to some extent; why spend millions trying to increase lap times only to slow the cars down by over-fuelling them? I believe, for an average lap, 1 litre of fuel costs roughly 0.1 seconds. Over a fifty lap race that could be the difference between finishing first and second.<br><br>Red Bull put as little fuel in as they thought was needed but for some reason it wasn't enough.<br><br>I looked on youtube for a very interesting video I saw earlier this year showing how fuel cells are made and fitted to F1 cars but I couldn't find it so I'll post this instead.<br><br><p><div style='z-index:0; text-align:center;display:block;'><object width='425' height='350'><param name='movie' value="http://www.youtube.com/v/_Wn1EFLa2C8"><param name=wmode value="transparent"><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/_Wn1EFLa2C8" type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350' allowscriptaccess='samedomain'></embed></object></div></p><center>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wn1EFLa2C8" >www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wn1EFLa2C8</A></center><br><br>FWIW I've been following  F1 since the early '80s. The first race I ever saw (sadly I wasn't there) was Monaco when Derek Daly tried to pass someone the hard way.<br><br><p><div style='z-index:0; text-align:center;display:block;'><object width='425' height='350'><param name='movie' value="http://www.youtube.com/v/cS8a7-Uj_Ck"><param name=wmode value="transparent"><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/cS8a7-Uj_Ck" type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350' allowscriptaccess='samedomain'></embed></object></div></p><center>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS8a7-Uj_Ck" >www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS8a7-Uj_Ck</A></center><br><br>Edit: after re-watching that video Daly wasn't the first to take to the air. I always assumed he caused the crash but I think he may have been hit from behind and pushed into the rear of someone else.<br><small>--<br>Overflow error in /dev/null</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2012 13:39:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27743652</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : If you under the impression that they did not know than you might trying watching another sport. EVERYTHING is calculated, period, well unless you are HRT...]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 22:50:19 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27743045</link>
<description><![CDATA[proefain posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/885989" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=885989');">Da Geek Kid</a>:</said><p>I hope you also clearly explained why Vettel cheated (I mean stopped) in the middle of the track during the qualifying of the Abu Dhabi race...<br> </p></div>No I didn't.  I was under assumption he was low on gas.<br>I also don't see how he had an advantage of starting from the pit lane instead of 3rd.  Unless you are you implying he was cheating because he had less than a liter of fuel during qualifying?]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:33:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27742985</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/157094" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=157094');">proefain</a>:</said><p><div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/228002" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=228002');">Warzau</a>:</said><p>My daughter and I watched the race and we liked it a lot. It was great to see F1 come back to US. But I don't like what Ferrari did. The seal is there to prevent unauthorized replacement. But they did it to gain a advantage. <br> </p></div>I watched the race with my kids who are only 3-5.  I'm pretty sure I did a good job brainwashing them that Ferrari cheats.  I know that winning requires creative interpretation of the rule book but somehow this is just too brazen. <br> </p></div>I hope you also clearly explained why Vettel cheated (I mean stopped) in the middle of the track during the qualifying of the Abu Dhabi race...]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 19:08:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27742484</link>
<description><![CDATA[proefain posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/228002" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=228002');">Warzau</a>:</said><p>My daughter and I watched the race and we liked it a lot. It was great to see F1 come back to US. But I don't like what Ferrari did. The seal is there to prevent unauthorized replacement. But they did it to gain a advantage. <br> </p></div>I watched the race with my kids who are only 3-5.  I'm pretty sure I did a good job brainwashing them that Ferrari cheats.  I know that winning requires creative interpretation of the rule book but somehow this is just too brazen. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 16:31:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27742017</link>
<description><![CDATA[bjf123 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1300622" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1300622');">Pjr</a>:</said><p>Breaking the seal made me laugh. That took bending the rules to a new level. If it had been McLaren that did it... I'm not saying the authorities are biased but IMO Ferrari get away with far more than the other teams.</p></div>I've been a Ferrari fan for 30+ years, but I have to agree that they seem to get a little more leeway than the other teams.<br><small>--<br>Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:17:43 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27741940</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : The FIA does not have people in every pit and since they get a penalty I don't think the FIA requires the team to prove the tranny bad. Worse comes to worse for any team - they actually replace the transmission rather than just break the seal.<br><br>Any team could do it and the FIA couldn't/wouldn't do anything about it.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 14:00:29 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27741594</link>
<description><![CDATA[Pjr posted : Breaking the seal made me laugh. That took bending the rules to a new level. If it had been McLaren that did it... I'm not saying the authorities are biased but IMO Ferrari get away with far more than the other teams.<br><br>Could someone tell me what Vettel says, please?<br><br><p><div style='z-index:0; text-align:center;display:block;'><object width='425' height='350'><param name='movie' value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4-c_h7mRpX0"><param name=wmode value="transparent"><embed wmode="transparent" src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4-c_h7mRpX0" type='application/x-shockwave-flash' width='425' height='350' allowscriptaccess='samedomain'></embed></object></div></p><center>&raquo;<A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-c_h7mRpX0" >www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-c_h7mRpX0</A></center><br><br>My hearing's getting worse :( <br><small>--<br>Overflow error in /dev/null</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:24:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27741585</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : BS.... Redbul could have done the same to put Alonso on the dirty side again... it made no difference @ the end as Massa was 4th @ the end.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 12:20:20 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27741490</link>
<description><![CDATA[Warzau posted : My daughter and I watched the race and we liked it a lot. It was great to see F1 come back to US. But I don't like what Ferrari did. The seal is there to prevent unauthorized replacement. But they did it to gain a advantage. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 11:47:25 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27741286</link>
<description><![CDATA[bjf123 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/157094" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=157094');">proefain</a>:</said><p>This is the crap that makes me hate Ferrari and F1 in general.  I find myself rooting not for my favorite drive but just that Ferrari loses. </p></div>Let's say that Alonso is leading late in the race next week in Brazil with Webber in 3rd and Vettel in 4th.  You don't think Red Bull will tell Mark to let Seb by so that Vettel wins the title?  It's all about the team and winning the titles.<br><small>--<br>Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:54:02 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27741194</link>
<description><![CDATA[proefain posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/601352" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=601352');">ThirdShifter</a>:</said><p>Ferrari may change massa gearbox to get alonso higher on the start.<br> </p></div>This is the crap that makes me hate Ferrari and F1 in general.  I find myself rooting not for my favorite drive but just that Ferrari loses.   ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:35:56 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27741114</link>
<description><![CDATA[bjf123 posted : Really enjoyed the race.  The track is one of the best designs Tilke has done.  The run up to turn 1 at the start is great.  I was surprised there wasn't more carnage.  The track needs to come up with names for the turns.  <br><br>I think Alonso only has a chance at the driver's title if Vettel DNFs in Brazil.<br><small>--<br>Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:14:53 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27739725</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : I have to re-record the race.  My wife decided to move the TV and the stand it was on.  I was so irritated I moved everything and unplugged the race.  By the time I realized what I had done - and got more pissed - when I got it back up - they were showing the replays of Hamilton's pass.  GRRRRRRRRR<br><br>That 2.4 second pit stop by Hamilton was just unbelievable...<br><br>Of what I saw - good racing all over and it is a very nice track.  Happy that no one was supremely stupid on the opening lap as well.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 18:24:49 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27739487</link>
<description><![CDATA[cbrigante2 posted : Great race.  Very nice track and I think Hamilton had to really work to catch Vettel.  I did find Vettel's response on the radio funny in a "look at that crybaby" sort of way.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:33:30 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27739334</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : Massa and Hamilton are flying today]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 15:18:09 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: US GP qual</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-US-GP-qual-27739162</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : I don't think Lotus has the speed to stay out front and hold of RBR and Hamilton.  Course Hamilton can suddenly have car issues yet again... :)<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:13:58 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: US GP qual</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-US-GP-qual-27739140</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : Ofcourse, this is vettels championship to lose. I'm putting money on kimi and grosjean to stay out a lot more laps and finish ahead of RBR and hamilton. <br><br>Ferraris strategy would be to stay out as long as possible too and hope vettel gets stuck behind one of the lotus. ]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 14:01:12 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: US GP qual</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-US-GP-qual-27739121</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : Still does not change my opinion though - for Alonso to have any hope, Vettel needs to not finish or for not be in the points.<br><br>The Ferrari is bad enough that he needs to be a lot closer to have any realistic hope.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:53:03 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: US GP qual</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-US-GP-qual-27739012</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : alonsoo has to finish 4th to keep the championship alive to brazil.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 13:01:36 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: US GP qual</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-US-GP-qual-27738994</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : I did note it was the qual (I don't post anything but the qual result)  - I did not read any extra stories this morning though... :)<br><br>Moving Alonso 2 spots helps - but Alonso's only hope if for Vettel to drop out.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:52:06 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: US GP qual</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-US-GP-qual-27738984</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/170109" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=170109');">CylonRed</a>:</said><p>Interesting qual<br> </p></div>That's the Qualification result, the order they start the race is much different. Grojean and Massa are both demoted 5 places due to gear box changes. <br><br>This is good for alonso as he will be starting on the clean side, but not for kimi who will be on the dirty side of the track.<br><br>Clean side = Racing line and more rubber.<br><br>Dirty side = Off line, very greasy, dusty and "green" especially for this race as it didn't have any support races.<br><br>Current starting positions:<br><br>1	Sebastian Vettel		Red Bull<br>2	Lewis Hamilton		McLaren<br>3	Mark Webber		Red Bull<br>4	Kimi Raikkonen		Lotus<br>5	Michael Schumacher		Mercedes<br>6	Nico Hulkenberg		Force India<br>7	Fernando Alonso		Ferrari<br>8	Romain Grosjean		Lotus<br>Romain Grosjean - Five place penalty for gearbox change<br>9	Pastor Maldonado		Williams<br>10	Bruno Senna		Williams<br>11	Felipe Massa		Ferrari<br>Felipe Massa - Five place penalty for gearbox change<br>12	Jenson Button		McLaren<br>13	Paul di Resta		Force India<br>14	Jean-Eric Vergne		Toro Rosso<br>15	Sergio Perez		Sauber<br>16	Kamui Kobayashi		Sauber<br>17	Nico Rosberg		Mercedes<br>18	Daniel Ricciardo		Toro Rosso<br>19	Timo Glock		Marussia<br>20	Charles Pic		Marussia<br>21	Vitaly Petrov		Caterham<br>22	Heikki Kovalainen		Caterham<br>23	Pedro de la Rosa		HRT<br>24	Narain Karthikeyan		HRT]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:47:35 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>US GP qual</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/US-GP-qual-27738972</link>
<description><![CDATA[CylonRed posted : Interesting qual - Vettel had cooling issues in practice - going to be interesting if he has any in the race.  Vettel had few laps in practice but yet sets fast times in practice #2 after only a couple laps.  Looks like the track suits Red Bull really well.<br><br>Alonso has a long haul - it looks like the car is crap.  Button - yet more problems with possibly fuel pickup or fuel pump - a pump they have used for many years.  Team is in complete disarray.<br><br>To that end - what hell is up with Rossberg?<br><br>Will this year be the last for HRT???<br><br>Should be a good race.<br><small>--<br>Brian<br><br>"It drops into your stomach like a Abrams's tank....  driven by Rosanne Barr..."  A. Bourdain</small><div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27738972?c=2051869&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzAxNzU0MS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="35253 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=408 HEIGHT=425 SRC="/r0/download/2051869~570f2c339d891cebd3656c74248d82c6/GP%20_%20US.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:40:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27738969</link>
<description><![CDATA[ThirdShifter posted : Ferrari may change massa gearbox to get alonso higher on the start.]]></description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:36:54 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27738957</link>
<description><![CDATA[cbrigante2 posted : The return of US GP racing in about an hour.  Hopefully it's a good race...but it's looking like Vettel will be long gone before the first lap is complete.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27738957</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:30:55 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27734778</link>
<description><![CDATA[Da Geek Kid posted : [att=1]<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27734778?c=2051337&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzAxNzU0MS54bWw%3D"><IMG class="apic" BORDER=0 TITLE="1808874 bytes" WIDTH=600 HEIGHT=600 SRC="/r0/download/2051337.thumb600~410dbc60a98daf1c723eedaaa4559664/28833_10/thumb.jpg" ALT="Click for full size"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27734778</guid>
<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2012 15:30:37 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27722762</link>
<description><![CDATA[cbrigante2 posted : <div class="bquote"><said>said by <a href="/profile/1300622" onClick="this.blur(); return popup(event,'/uidpop?ajh=1&uid=1300622');">Pjr</a>:</said><p>I want one  :D<br> </p></div>Throw a like at them on the suggestion on Google +:<br>&raquo;<A HREF="https://plus.google.com/u/0/116890489070887664371/posts" >plus.google.com/u/0/116890489070&middot;&middot;&middot;71/posts</A>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27722762</guid>
<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2012 11:28:01 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27719462</link>
<description><![CDATA[Pjr posted : I want one  :D]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27719462</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:09:15 EDT</pubDate>
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<item>
<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27717407</link>
<description><![CDATA[Warzau posted : buawhaha. I loved that radio transmission it was classic.]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27717407</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:28:11 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27716834</link>
<description><![CDATA[cbrigante2 posted : I love the shirt<div class="borderless"><TABLE WIDTH=95% align=center border=0 CELLPADDING=4"><TR><TD ALIGN=CENTER VALIGN=CENTER BGCOLOR=#FFFFFF nwrap COLSPAN=3 WIDTH=100%><A HREF="/speak/slideshow/27716834?c=2049914&ret=L2ZvcnVtL3IyNzAxNzU0MS54bWw%3D"><IMG TITLE="66882 bytes" BORDER=0 WIDTH=558 HEIGHT=558 SRC="/r0/download/2049914~7d4688ba5fc928802fc041c24471629f/T1.JPG"></A></TD></TABLE></div>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27716834</guid>
<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2012 12:13:57 EDT</pubDate>
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<title>Re: [Auto] 2012 F1 season begins....</title>
<link>http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27695320</link>
<description><![CDATA[bjf123 posted : Got to give Vettel credit for getting up to third place, though the two safety cars certainly helped.  I was hoping Alonso would close the gap more, but at least he gained on Seb.  I loved Kimi's replies.  I'm sure other drivers think about saying those things, but just never do.<br><small>--<br>Golf is a relatively simple game, played by reasonably intelligent people, stupidly.</small>]]></description>
<guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-Auto-2012-F1-season-begins-27695320</guid>
<pubDate>Mon, 05 Nov 2012 12:23:35 EDT</pubDate>
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