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TheKid7

join:2005-10-12

RFID Blocking Wallets

I have been trying to research the effectiveness of RFID Blocking Wallets, but I have come to a conclusion that none of the RFID Blocking Wallets are 100% effective at blocking RFID. Is this a correct conclusion? Does anyone have any personal experience with the effectiveness of one or more Brands/Models? Please share your experiences.

Yesterday someone started using my VISA Card Number, but it was caught early. My Account was promptly closed and new Cards ordered. None of my current Credit Cards have RFID. I asked VISA if the new card would have RFID and VISA said 'Yes'. That is why I am suddenly concerned about RFID Credit Cards.

I found a couple of RFID Blocking leather wallets which have really good user feedback reviews. However, it appears that the reviews may be more on Quality than RFID Blocking effectiveness.

I did find some practical RFID Blocking feedback on a leather wallet but the size was too bulky for me. It was a combination Passport/Wallet which makes it too big to fit in my front pocket.

Thanks in Advance.


Snowy
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Kailua, HI
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Clearwire Wireless
I'd look more at disabling the feature more than mitigating it.
There's a lot of relevant threads in the in the forum, here's one of them.
»Special alloy sleeves urged to block hackers?


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:3
reply to TheKid7
RFID Blocking Wallets are Faraday cages. To be effective a Faraday cage must be completely sealed. Any gaps will allow RF to get in and out. Therefore to prevent CC's from being read you need to ensure that you have a good quality blocker. The cheap ones I've seen may provide some protection but not complete.

FYI newer US passports also have an RFID embedded.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
reply to TheKid7
Go to a photography store, and get a lead pouch for film like the ones for the airport. Cut it to size for the card. Done.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:3
said by Juggernaut:

Go to a photography store, and get a lead pouch for film...

Can you still buy those? I would think that digital photography has destroyed demand for them.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC
kudos:2
Not sure, but lot's of people still use film. Still better than digital for quality.

PrivacyExprt

join:2010-09-29
Longwood, FL
reply to TheKid7
I've used a faraday wallet for almost a decade. Pretty high quality, it has a dense silver-mesh lining all around inside of the leather, and wraps up things nice and tight because it overlaps the cards forming a pretty tight cage.

I think it is this one;
»www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/securi ··· /?srp=12

Alternatively, you can buy a nice pouch the size of a wallet that is even stronger. I own a few of those, and depending on circumstances, I will deploy them. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING will get through these pouches..

»www.ebay.com/itm/Cell-Phone-RF-S ··· 29wt_905

TheKid7

join:2005-10-12
reply to TheKid7
This is the RFID Blocking Wallet that I am considering buying:

»www.amazon.com/Nappa-Leather-Blo ··· 04O4JKJK

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to TheKid7
Why don't you just ask your bank for a regular card? You don't have to accept the RFID one. I have one but I have never used it. It was sent to me when the card I had was about to expire. It's the ugliest card I have ever seen with cuckoo marketing. I am not worried about needing to block it. I did my research. But it is too ugly to use. The previous one was a nice looking card. It has a stupid name also (name was changed when the marketing for it was drastically changed and the ugly card was designed).
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

jl747

join:2005-03-24
Mount Prospect, IL
reply to TheKid7
Checkout this company

www.idstronghold.com/'


ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia

2 edits

1 recommendation

reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

I am not worried about needing to block it. I did my research.

How do you tell if it's a "first generation RFID" card or not.
Do you have a link to further generation tech specs?

"The only info i've found to explain is;
Academic researchers and 'White-Hat' hackers have analysed and documented the covert theft of RFID credit card information and been met with both denials and criticisms from RFID card-issuing agencies.[1][10] Nevertheless, after public disclosure of information that could be stolen by low-cost jury-rigged detectors which were used to scan cards in mailing envelopes (and in other studies also even via drive-by data attacks), the design of security features on various cards was upgraded to remove card owners' names and other data.[1][10] Additionally a number of completely unencrypted card designs were converted to encrypted data systems."

"Various security issues have been identified with their use, including the ability of black hats to harvest their identifier numbers at a distance and apply them to blank counterfeit documents and cards, thus assuming those people's identifiers.[12]"

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_i ··· ty_theft

Not much to go on.
All the info on these should need further decoding "in house" so a passer-by gets nothing but random bits.
"F" the wallet, nothing say's insecure like needing one.
--
Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Now is the not right time to stop folding."

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
That Wikipedia stuff is quoting old studies. Read this thread I started and read all the various links and then decide what you think. I started off thinking one thing and as I uncovered more and more recent research I changed my mind. I am not using that card but not because it has the chip but for a completely different reason. In about a year, if I do decide I want to use that card then I will do further research to see what is the latest information.

»RFID chip in credit cards -anything changed?

I have been issued two new cards this year for ones about to expire and neither have a RFID chip. I think it is currently almost only from the major national banks like Chase, Citi, BOA, etc.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


ashrc4
Premium
join:2009-02-06
australia
Thanks for the link. Have not been here that long.

I'd trust a chipped card but RFID isn't advertised in terms of spec/generation and passport data is still on the cards today.

"All the info on these should need further decoding "in house" so a passer-by gets nothing but random bits."

Still agree here.
--
Paradigm Shift beta test pilot. "Now is the not right time to stop folding."


Drunkula
Premium
join:2000-06-12
Denton, TX
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to TheKid7
I have the one mentioned above (ThinkGeek) and confirmed it works. I have just one RFID card and I do occasionally carry it. There is a vending machine at work that can read those cards. It does not see my card if it is in my wallet even if I hold it right next to the reader.
--
There are 10 types of people that understand binary numbers. Those that do - and those that do not...


Sentinel
Premium
join:2001-02-07
Florida
kudos:2
reply to TheKid7
How about a hole punch? I punched out my RFID chip. The card still works fine in a regular magnetic stripe reader.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:3
said by Sentinel:

I punched out my RFID chip.

I love it!
A low-tech solution to a high-tech problem

Might not want to do that to a passport though...
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!
Expand your moderator at work

TheKid7

join:2005-10-12
reply to TheKid7

Re: RFID Blocking Wallets

I got the replacement VISA cards yesterday. I see no indication of there being a RFID chip in them.


sivran
Vive Vivaldi
Premium
join:2003-09-15
Irving, TX
kudos:1
reply to Sentinel
said by Sentinel:

How about a hole punch? I punched out my RFID chip. The card still works fine in a regular magnetic stripe reader.

I did that to my Chase debit card. Now it no longer works in their ATMs.

Not that I keep any money in my checking account there anyway.
--
Think Outside the Fox.


vaxvms
ferroequine fan
Premium
join:2005-03-01
Wormtown
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Charter
reply to Mele20
said by Mele20:

But it is too ugly to use.

Me too. It's safer to carry large wads of cash to pay for everything rather than have anyone to see an ugly credit card.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to TheKid7
When it comes to RFID, I sometimes wonder what would be worse, someone reading my RFID whatever, or getting zapped by enough power to read an RFID at the distance that people think this is happening at. So how close are they getting to my RFID whatever in order to read it and are we talking about ISO-14443 systems? RFID does have some designed limitations around range and I'm not sure people are including those in discussions around RFID theft.

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to vaxvms
said by vaxvms:

said by Mele20:

But it is too ugly to use.

Me too. It's safer to carry large wads of cash to pay for everything rather than have anyone to see an ugly credit card.

Gee, I only think this ONE card is ugly. I have plenty of other cards and they are not ugly. The only ugly one is the one with the RFID chip. I think guys would like it though. The color is a dark blue with solid background...rather masculine looking. The name was changed when the card design changed...odd name too. Most cards are named after the bank that issues them but not this one. Anyhow, not to worry, I won't be waving large wads of cash around.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


Sentinel
Premium
join:2001-02-07
Florida
kudos:2
reply to sivran
I never thought of that. I don't use ATMs so I have not experienced this. Good point though.


carpetshark3
Premium
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
reply to Link Logger
TV station in Denver did news segment on reading RFID cards. News reporters went to DIA with a laptop and were just close enough to the "victim" not to arouse suspicion. So you don't need to be jam-packed like sardines for the card to be read. The "victims" were mostly shocked.


altermatt
Premium
join:2004-01-22
White Plains, NY
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to TheKid7
I request all my credit/debit/ATM cards to be non-RFID; to my mind, the convenience of "blink" is far outweighed by the risk. I've only been told once that a non-RFID card wasn't available, and I just cancelled that card.

But the gov't forces me to have a passport with this chip in it, and that is, to my mind, a huge risk for someone like me, who travels extensively and needs to carry a passport. Yes, I invested in a passport holder with RFID blocking (and resented the expense) but from what I'm reading more and more, these are far from foolproof. Plus when you do have to take it out and hand it over temporarily (at many international hotels, certainly airports, etc.) it's exposed and there's a lot more personal info on there than on my credit card.
--
The truth of a thing is the feel of it, not the think of it. -- Stanley Kubrick


Cousin Dave
Trendsetter
Premium
join:2002-10-29

1 edit
reply to TheKid7
Click for full size
This might meet your needs.
»kck.st/w5ZavW

I'm a backer on this project.

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to TheKid7
Why not just put an appropriately sized and shaped piece of aluminum foil in your regular wallet - multiple layers of foil if need be? Probably on the outside of the bills (as if it were a bill itself), where it would provide the most coverage. Depending on the design of the wallet, once you've closed it and it's folded over on itself, the foil should provide multiple layers of uniform coverage. I haven't tried this yet myself, but both my newest wallet and the old one it replaced would be perfect for this.

As others have mentioned, and as I can attest (having carried RFID cards for several years now), the chips in them are easily damaged to the point of being useless. And, if it isn't already readily apparent, you can usually see exactly where the chip is if you hold the card up next to a strong light.


Link Logger
Premium,MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
reply to carpetshark3
The thing about requiring such close proximity is that it limits how many cards can be exploited this way. How much time does it take to get close to that many people, and at what risk as sometimes you run into people like me who just might be looking for people doing this

Blake
--
Vendor: Author of Link Logger which is a traffic analysis and firewall logging tool


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:3
said by Link Logger:

How much time does it take to get close to that many people...

Hang out at a major airport and it won't take long. As a bonus you may even get data from RFID enabled passports especially if you're in an international terminal.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


carpetshark3
Premium
join:2004-02-12
Idledale, CO
Reviews:
·CenturyLink
Here:
»www.neowin.net/news/bank-card-de ··· d-phones

I do have such a phone. I'm more interested in turning on/using the gyro.