 jabarnutLight Years AwayPremium,MVM
join:2005-01-22
Galaxy M31
kudos:2 | reply to Dude111
Re: said by Dude111:...
i love IE6 and 98se and I explained why 
IE6 and 98se? Wow! I've never even heard of them. 
I'll have to try them for sure!
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I had a life once.....now I have a Computer and a Modem. |
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 FreddyPremium
join:2005-05-17
Arlington, VA | reply to Gone Fishing
Re: [IE] Internet Explorer: The Browser You Loved To Hate All,
According to the below referenced web site (dated Aug., 2010), Internet Explorer (IE) 9 scores 95 out of 100 in the Acid Test 3 for meeting web standards:
»www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/microsof···ber/2296
The article is not too long, and is a good read for those who are interested in this subject. That is, the subject that IE does not comply with web standards.
Freddy |
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Reviews:
 ·AT&T Southwest
3 edits | said by Freddy:According to the below referenced web site (dated Aug., 2010), Internet Explorer (IE) 9 scores 95 out of 100 in the Acid Test 3 for meeting web standards
Acid3 test are cute. Good for marketing. But of little value to show compliance with current web standards. Acid3, specifically, only tests up through CSS2.1 and nothing with CSS3, HTML5, current javascript (ecmascript) standards, etc. Acid3 is more than 3 years old.
I've shown other links on this board for years, including the two links above, to show the parts of IE9 that do not work at all, but people choose to ignore them. Acid3 is the worst thing to use. Even Ian Hickson, the author of it, says not to use Acid tests to compare browsers (I'm looking for the link).
IE is still the worst browser on the planet, technically, and always will be. |
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 dvd536as Mr. Pink as they comePremium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4 | said by howardfine:IE is still the worst browser on the planet, technically, and always will be.
Its a good moneymaker for AV, AT, AM companies |
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 NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
 ·Comcast
 ·Callcentric
 ·Site5.com
| reply to Freddy
said by Freddy:All,
According to the below referenced web site (dated Aug., 2010), Internet Explorer (IE) 9 scores 95 out of 100 in the Acid Test 3 for meeting web standards:
»www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/microsof···ber/2296
The article is not too long, and is a good read for those who are interested in this subject. That is, the subject that IE does not comply with web standards.
Freddy
A very good read Freddy. Thanks for sharing. I prefer Firefox, but you can bet that I will download IE 9 and give it a try.
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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 darciliciousCyber LibrarianPremium
join:2001-01-02
Forest Grove, OR
kudos:2 | reply to Gone Fishing
Only use IE at work and only for sites that literally don't work with other browsers. WTF is that about? That right there is enough to make NOT use IE whenever possible. |
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Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
| reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:I prefer Firefox, but you can bet that I will download IE 9 and give it a try.
When you give it a try, make sure you try it on the links I gave earlier. Then try those same links in any other browser and report back. |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
| said by howardfine:said by Nightfall:I prefer Firefox, but you can bet that I will download IE 9 and give it a try.
When you give it a try, make sure you try it on the links I gave earlier. Then try those same links in any other browser and report back. No browser is going to render every website correctly. Sure, we would all love to see it, but so far, it hasn't been a reality.
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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Reviews:
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| said by Nightfall:No browser is going to render every website correctly. Sure, we would all love to see it, but so far, it hasn't been a reality.
I'm not talking about rendering it correctly. I'm talking being able to render current, standard code at all that EVERY other browser does fine with. |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
| said by howardfine:said by Nightfall:No browser is going to render every website correctly. Sure, we would all love to see it, but so far, it hasn't been a reality.
I'm not talking about rendering it correctly. I'm talking being able to render current, standard code at all that EVERY other browser does fine with. The issue is that not every site is coded that way. Not trying to be defeatist, but so far, no single browser is able to view every site without an issue.
The issue here is getting all the site code updated to the latest and greatest code.
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Nightfall:so far, no single browser is able to view every site without an issue.
Not exactly right. It depends on...stuff. Generally you can get the modern browsers to work quite well depending on how complicated things get. quote:
The issue here is getting all the site code updated to the latest and greatest code.
No. The issue is that the latest and greatest code cannot and will not work in IE but will work in any other browser. At least that's the point I'm trying to make. |
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OZOPremium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2 | reply to Nightfall
said by Nightfall:No browser is going to render every website correctly. Sure, we would all love to see it, but so far, it hasn't been a reality.
To help to see where the problem is there is a judge in the town - HTML/CSS verification tools. They were specifically developed for that purpose. If there is a problem with web page - the tool will tell about that. Otherwise the problem is with browser.
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Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself... |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
| reply to howardfine
said by howardfine:said by Nightfall:so far, no single browser is able to view every site without an issue.
Not exactly right. It depends on...stuff. Generally you can get the modern browsers to work quite well depending on how complicated things get. quote:
The issue here is getting all the site code updated to the latest and greatest code.
No. The issue is that the latest and greatest code cannot and will not work in IE but will work in any other browser. At least that's the point I'm trying to make. You have a link or source to back this claim up?
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
| said by Nightfall:You have a link or source to back this claim up?
This is the third time I'm saying this. I supplied two links in my first post. Over the past year I've supplied tens of links. Here's one more for you. |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
| said by howardfine:said by Nightfall:You have a link or source to back this claim up?
This is the third time I'm saying this. I supplied two links in my first post. Over the past year I've supplied tens of links. Here's one more for you. The problem with the links you are proposing is that they are just independent bloggers. I could produce a few links that would be done by independents that would show the exact opposite. That doesn't prove my point. I would prefer something a bit more concrete. Anything out there like that because I haven't found much doing a google search.
Here is one by Engadget that shows the opposite. »www.engadget.com/2010/11/02/w3c-···e-champ/
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My domain - Nightfall.net |
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Reviews:
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2 edits | That's hardly concrete. It parrots Microsoft's statement which is thrown out by the second link I posted and doesn't even show all the things IE can NOT do. I recently deleted one blog where it's also called BS but there's no getting past the failure of IE to render the two sites I show and there's no getting past the list created in the link no matter who wrote it. It's all true, correct and verifiable.
There are newer test sites like this one but it seems no matter what links I supply, people find excuses not to believe them, no matter who they are. All of them are by reputable, well known people in the development community, like Fyrd's (click on Tables and scroll to the bottom for a comparison).
I was going to link to some posts on Stackoverflow, which is a developer's q&a board if you really wanted to get how developers feel about IE but it's rather technical. Suffice to say, no self-respecting web developer uses IE for personal use. |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
| said by howardfine:That's hardly concrete. It parrots Microsoft's statement which is thrown out by the second link I posted and doesn't even show all the things IE can NOT do. I recently deleted one blog where it's also called BS but there's no getting past the failure of IE to render the two sites I show and there's no getting past the list created in the link no matter who wrote it. It's all true, correct and verifiable. There are newer test sites like this one but it seems no matter what links I supply, people find excuses not to believe them, no matter who they are. All of them are by reputable, well known people in the development community, like Fyrd's (click on Tables and scroll to the bottom for a comparison). I was going to link to some posts on Stackoverflow, which is a developer's q&a board if you really wanted to get how developers feel about IE but it's rather technical. Suffice to say, no self-respecting web developer uses IE for personal use. So, its safe to say that there is no expert committee that has done a study on these things or some kind of board that oversees these standards that has done tests on them.
You are right, I do have doubts when I read some of the blogs you have posted. At the same time, it doesn't matter what these people say when not every coder is using these standards that are available today. With so many people using different standards, what is the right way? Wouldn't it be the best browser that can display all the sites across the board with the best security?
Firefox is my favorite, so I am not some IE fanboy. At the same time though, to this day I have yet to find a browser that works on every site. These "standards" that these experts are talking about don't mean crap to 99% of the people out there. Especially when the people coding the sites aren't following the standards.
Personally, I believe there should be standards, but browsers should be flexible and secure.
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Reviews:
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| said by Nightfall:You are right, I do have doubts when I read some of the blogs you have posted.
I wasn't going to say it, cause it's another excuse I hear, but two of the several links I posted are by people from Mozilla and Google. While people will claim bias, that doesn't change what works and doesn't work in IE. Most of my links state facts. While they may contain commentary, the facts are the facts. quote:
it doesn't matter what these people say when not every coder is using these standards that are available today. With so many people using different standards, what is the right way?
Other than the W3C, what standards do you speak of? I know of no other except fo ECMA for javascript. quote:
Wouldn't it be the best browser that can display all the sites across the board with the best security?
No. We code to standards, not browsers. That's why so many web sites only work in IE. They coded to a non-standard browser and now they're in trouble. I don't know any professional developer that would code to a browser. quote:
At the same time though, to this day I have yet to find a browser that works on every site.
I found my first site in years that works better in IE. I was shocked. But I'm sure we visit different kinds of web sites. I never see IE-only sites anymore myself though I think my wife, who is my company's bookkeeper, used to have problems with our bank's site. quote:
These "standards" that these experts are talking about don't mean crap to 99% of the people out there. Especially when the people coding the sites aren't following the standards.
That's old school thinking. I'm pretty sure most people have learned to use the standards. I did see someone say something about not using standards a few months ago but that was just some kid. My response to that sort of statement was always, "If you're not following the W3C, what standard are you following?", to which I never get a reply. |
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 Dude111An Awesome DudePremium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:11 | reply to Gone Fishing
quote:
No browser is going to render every website correctly. Sure, we would all love to see it, but so far, it hasn't been a reality.
No i reckon the size of the browser would be HUGE if it could render everything from HTML5 down!! |
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NightfallMy Goal Is To Deny YoursPremium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI Reviews:
·Comcast
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| reply to howardfine
Re: [IE] Internet Explorer: The Browser You Loved To Hate quote:
That's old school thinking. I'm pretty sure most people have learned to use the standards. I did see someone say something about not using standards a few months ago but that was just some kid. My response to that sort of statement was always, "If you're not following the W3C, what standard are you following?", to which I never get a reply.
Old school thinking or not, its true. I think the inherent problem is just that. Not everyone is following W3C standards. The simple fact of the matter is that as long as there are other ways to do things, people are going to do them. I agree with you 100% that if W3C was the standard and everyone followed those standards, then we would be in a better place. This conversation wouldn't even be coming up. That just isn't the case.
Now, it certainly would be nice to see an official report from W3C testing the browsers. The initial report from W3C on IE9 was great. Then you have some "experts" in the community that go against that claim. I have read some publications that even question if Microsoft bought their way into a positive review. While I understand what the experts are saying, I am going to wait until W3C comes out with a new testing standard and retests the browsers. I have been around long enough to know that biased reporting does exist.
Until then, I am going to do what I have been doing for the last 10+ years. I am going to use multiple browsers, with my main one being Firefox right now and IE9 as my secondary.
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