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OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to Nightfall

Re: [IE] Internet Explorer: The Browser You Loved To Hate

said by Nightfall:

Its a set of standards that no one is required to follow. There is no governing body. There are no penalties for not following the standards.

Oh, really?

What do you need? A law? A police force to enforce that law? Or a common sense will suffice here? If it's the latter, then here is how it works. Web developer needs me to visit his web site. Not the other way around. That's why the owner of the web site pays money for web site development, maintenance, Internet service (name, certificates, incoming traffic), etc. I, the Internet user, not asking you, the web developer to develop your web site for me. On the other hand, you, the web developer, are asking me to visit your web site. And some of web developers in a process may forget that simple truth...

Now, if it's clear, any web developer should plead for standards. They, the standards, make possible for an average user to visit their web site with a common tool they have at disposal, that supports those standards. Of course, you may try to make your site with your own interpretation of HTML and even ask users, who want to visit your web site, to download a program that will show your web page precisely as you want. But as you may guess, it's plain dumb idea and it will not work for majority of users. They will simply refuse that offer (to download a program to see the site), ignore your site and simply move on to another site.

Bottom line, it is in the best interests of any web developer to make their web site be functional with as many of web browsers currently available as possible. And it could be achieved only if all of participants (web developers and developers of web browsers) obey common standards.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
said by OZO:

said by Nightfall:

Its a set of standards that no one is required to follow. There is no governing body. There are no penalties for not following the standards.

Oh, really?

What do you need? A law? A police force to enforce that law? Or a common sense will suffice here? If it's the latter, then here is how it works. Web developer needs me to visit his web site. Not the other way around. That's why the owner of the web site pays money for web site development, maintenance, Internet service (name, certificates, incoming traffic), etc. I, the Internet user, not asking you, the web developer to develop your web site for me. On the other hand, you, the web developer, are asking me to visit your web site. And some of web developers in a process may forget that simple truth...

Now, if it's clear, any web developer should plead for standards. They, the standards, make possible for an average user to visit their web site with a common tool they have at disposal, that supports those standards. Of course, you may try to make your site with your own interpretation of HTML and even ask users, who want to visit your web site, to download a program that will show your web page precisely as you want. But as you may guess, it's plain dumb idea and it will not work for majority of users. They will simply refuse that offer (to download a program to see the site), ignore your site and simply move on to another site.

Bottom line, it is in the best interests of any web developer to make their web site be functional with as many of web browsers currently available as possible. And it could be achieved only if all of participants (web developers and developers of web browsers) obey common standards.

We are in 100% agreement. Until that day comes though, the standard that we have for testing browsers has to be more than just "W3C standards". We need to test browsers with a variety of methods. When the dust settles, there are going to be plenty of options to choose from, all depending on the site and what is being displayed.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


howardfine

join:2002-08-09
Saint Louis, MO
Reviews:
·AT&T Southwest
I was going to explain some more to you how you are just utterly confused as to how the web works but I just don't feel like it and I don't think it will do any good. I don't know where you got the information have now but I recently saw a great online flip book that explained how browsers work put out by Google. It's for non-technical people such as yourself but I can't find it myself right now.

In the meantime, just for laughs, you should go to these script-kiddies (I presume) who told you they don't code to standards and ask them what I've asked you, "What do you use if you don't use the W3C standard?" and let us know what they said. What do they use besides W3C spec'd HTML/CSS/XML/DOM? What do they use besides ECMAScript? It will be most interesting.

I already said I've asked these kids that question in the past. I'm sure you'll get the same response.


Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:13

3 edits
reply to Gone Fishing

 

said by howardfine :
IE9 gains you nothing and you lose everything.
Actually nothing past IE6 gains you anything.. IN FACT,YOU LOSE STUFF FROM IE7!

1) You lose the ability to custimise the UI the way YOU WANT IT (Address bar on bottom,etc)

2) You lose the nice colourful icons (Not nearly as many)

3) It becomes even more bloated,costing you more resources

4) YOU DONT KNOW 100% THEY ARENT SPYING ON YOU!

5) The text IS BOLD/DIFFERENT STYLE and not as easy to read! (I have seen it (Especially with cleartext -- What garbage that is!))



IE6 and lower DO NOT SPY ON YOU as they came out BEFORE the intrusive phase started! (Win2000 SP4)



As far as security: You can lock down IE6 as good as IE7,8,9 and 10 by putting it on HIGH SECURITY...... And IE6 is much prettier (Even the first release of IE6 (6.0.2800.1106))

Like howardline says: YOU GAIN NOTHING..You lose stuff (Probably most important being YOUR PRIVACY)


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
reply to howardfine

Re: [IE] Internet Explorer: The Browser You Loved To Hate

said by howardfine:

I was going to explain some more to you how you are just utterly confused as to how the web works but I just don't feel like it and I don't think it will do any good. I don't know where you got the information have now but I recently saw a great online flip book that explained how browsers work put out by Google. It's for non-technical people such as yourself but I can't find it myself right now.

It sounds like we both know why some web developers don't code to the W3C standard then. The answers aren't acceptable to us, but thats beside the point.

I already understand how the web works thank you very much. I think what you need to do is to take a good long look at what questions I asked you. Let me requote them for you.

quote:
I have already proven you wrong on things you have said. For instance, when you said, "IE9 gains you nothing and you lose everything," that is a bullshit statement. You going to refute that? How about when you said, "no web developer in all these years would give anyone the advice to use IE for anything." That is also a bullshit statement as I know many web developers who would. Going to refute that?

No refute for your biased statements? Since I have already "proved you wrong", I believe this conversation is over.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net