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Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

2 edits

[IPv6] Legacy IPv6 support

I'm sitting at home tonight thinking about the most random things, and something popped back into my mind that I've been wondering about for months. I think I already know the answer but I figured that I should ask it anyway as a jumping off point for some to put in their two cents. Aright, here I go. My question is, does any network device support the passing of IPv6 addresses and data. I'm not talking about Layer 3 devices such as routers, but about Layer 1 and Layer 2 devices such as wireless access points, switches, and hubs.

How about 10BASE2 and 10BASE5 network hubs? I'm not asking about practicality of the use of these network hubs over switches, simply the question of "can they". For the purpose of the discussion the computers support IPv6 so they are no longer a factor or part of the equation.

The same question can be asked about support for passing IEEE 802.1x and RADIUS information through.


bpratt

join:2006-10-24
Redwood City, CA

Re: [Connectivity] Legacy IPv6 support

IPv4 vs IPv6 is irrelevant to layer 1 and 2 devices, such as switches, hubs, etc. Keep in mind that those devices are also used with plenty of non-IP protocols (yes, those still exist) such as SNA, IPX (old Netware), DECNet, etc, etc

Bob



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

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Ah ok. Thank you. So to be clear your saying that they will pass everything along without a problem? I ask this because with quite a few businesses, colleges, schools, and large homes in my area choosing to shift to using IPv6 internally, I was approached with this question because they don't want to replace their equipment if they don't have to. Above are some of the items.

bpratt

join:2006-10-24
Redwood City, CA

1 recommendation

Yup, switches and hubs will work fine. Routers will need to support ipv6, of course, and if they plan to eventually go to v6 only networks the management interfaces on the switches and such will need to support v6. But generally going with a mixed v4 / v6 network will work fine and the existing infrastructure should all work.

Bob



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

1 edit
reply to Mike Wolf

I have an Asus RT-N56U Router, it isn't Ipv6 Certified, but my Modem, a Motorola SB6120 is, will I need to replace the Asus to work with IPv6?



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to bpratt

Very true. Thanks. The switches/hubs are unmanaged so there would be no management web interfaces. The wireless access points however would be stuck in IPv4 only. Most of them are WAP54g models with PEAP and RADIUS. I'm thinking if they want to go IPv6 only to computers connecting an IPv6 DHCP server would be used and the IPv4 network infrastructure address would be isolated to it own segment?



whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to RR Conductor

said by RR Conductor:

I have an Asus RT-N56U Router, it isn't Ipv6 Certified, but my Modem, a Motorola SB6120 is, will I need to replace the Asus to work with IPv6?

If you're running it as a router, yes. It'll need to be replaced with something supporting IPv6 and DHCPv6-PD.

However, you could use that device as layer 2 access point (eg. 2nd wifi AP in the house).

bpratt

join:2006-10-24
Redwood City, CA

1 recommendation

reply to Mike Wolf

Correct, but assuming your router can handle IP v4 on the local net to IPv6 outbound via 4to6 NAT, there's really no reason to worry about making your local LAN IPv6 only, at least not for the reasonable lifespan of any of the devices we're talking about.

Bob



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

1 recommendation

Good point, but this network has to last another 15 to 20 years (so I'm told) so who knows what devices are going to be connecting up in the meantime.


bpratt

join:2006-10-24
Redwood City, CA

1 recommendation

If they are still using the same switch infrastructure in 15 years, that would be pretty impressive. Plus, I'll bet that 15 years from now hybrid IPv4/v6 networks will still be all over the place also.
Bob



whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

reply to bpratt

said by bpratt:

Correct, but assuming your router can handle IP v4 on the local net to IPv6 outbound via 4to6 NAT, there's really no reason to worry about making your local LAN IPv6 only

There is no outbound 4to6 NAT. You can't make 128 bits fit into a 32 bit addr field. You won't be able to reach the v6 internet.

About the only thing you could do is a signup for a tunnel on each PC or add a dedicated PC with a tunnel acting as a v6 router within your LAN.

I should note, there is NAT64 which allows a v6 client to reach a v4 host.

bpratt

join:2006-10-24
Redwood City, CA

Sorry, I meant proxy rather than nat. Anyway, I think it's all a silly argument, since any modern client OS will support dual stacks.



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1
reply to whfsdude

said by whfsdude:

said by RR Conductor:

I have an Asus RT-N56U Router, it isn't Ipv6 Certified, but my Modem, a Motorola SB6120 is, will I need to replace the Asus to work with IPv6?

If you're running it as a router, yes. It'll need to be replaced with something supporting IPv6 and DHCPv6-PD.

However, you could use that device as layer 2 access point (eg. 2nd wifi AP in the house).

Hmm, looks like I'll have to Router shopping soon, thanks for the info! Man, I just bought that later last year too, well, I can always use it as a 2nd AP like you said, beats having it sit and gather dust!


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

let us know what router you decide to go with, or if you are looking for any suggestions, its what we live for



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3
reply to Mike Wolf

Simple, when in doubt do a test.



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to Mike Wolf

said by Mike Wolf:

Good point, but this network has to last another 15 to 20 years (so I'm told) so who knows what devices are going to be connecting up in the meantime.

If they want to use the gear in 15-20years then you need to tell them to fully upgrade to the latest and greatest and then hope/pray.

in tech time 15-20 years might as well be a few lifetimes for the gear.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

I'm not so sure about that. I mean network hubs and switches that came out in the early 90's are still running today at the 10/100MB mark and they're passing data along fine. It's a matter of taking good care of the equipment, keeping it clean and good power stabilization. I think we may go with these »homestore.cisco.com/en-us/Switch···prod.htm



DarkLogix
Texan and Proud
Premium
join:2008-10-23
Baytown, TX
kudos:3

Sure a switch or hub might still "work" but it'll be far for good in 15-20 years.

ya 10/100, who uses 10/100 any more? in 20 years I'd bet that 100gbit will be common.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

lets meet back up in 20 years and find out

you ask who still uses 10/100 anymore, college networks, schools, libraries, and the majority of households do. I mean hell I've yet to find an HP network printer that supports gigabit ethernet.
I mean hell even TiVo doesn't support gigabit and that right there would be the perfect use for it transferring shows between them.



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Mike Wolf

said by Mike Wolf:

let us know what router you decide to go with, or if you are looking for any suggestions, its what we live for

Thanks! I picked up the Netgear N750-

»www.netgear.com/home/products/wi···000.aspx

It does everything I want and more, is IPv6 ready and it was priced right on Amazon at $128. I looked at the successor to the ASUS RT-N56U, the RT-N66U, but it's almost 200 bucks, too much for me. I've always had good luck with the Netgear products, as well as Cisco/Linksys and Asus, one brand I have had bad luck with though is Belkin, I love their products overall but their routers kinda stink. The Netgear will be here tomorrow (I LOVE Amazon Prime! ), I'll report back how it does.


Wayne99021
Premium
join:2004-12-28
Mead, WA
kudos:1

1 recommendation

You are going to really like that router......That is also a very good price.
I use both the 2.4 and the 5 GHz bands for the iPad, laptop, Apple TV and wireless printer and can't slow it down.
It also has excellent range and runs very cool.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to RR Conductor

Just be careful. »www.networkworld.com/news/2011/0···ers.html

According to the review I linked below, aside from 8 MB of flash vs. 16 MB in the E4200, different antennas and firmware, the Netgear WNDR4000 and original Linksys E4200 are kissin' cousins.



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

reply to Mike Wolf

Thanks for the feedback Wayne and Mike! Mike-It looks like there are still few bugs to be worked out with IPv6 in home networking products, but hopefully they'll get it all sorted out by the time Comcast goes IPv6 this summer. Wayne-I'm glad to hear it is fast and has great range, I always worry when changing equipment, but it sounds like the Netgear will easily match my Asus, and maybe even exceed it.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

3 edits
reply to Mike Wolf

For others looking for routers, I'd give some thought to the Linksys E4200v2 $199.99 ($149.99 refurbished on Cisco.com site), or any of the new EA line (various prices but less then the E4200v2) which are soon to be released. The Netgear WNDR3800 $129.99 which has support for TiVo Storage and time machine and more »www.netgear.com/home/products/wi···800.aspx and the WNDR4500 $179.99 which does 450Mbps/450Mbps symmetrically (which is good for the future when that speed becomes standard) and more »www.netgear.com/home/products/wi···500.aspx
And of course the Netgear WNDR4000 as RR Conductor mentioned.

Here is a review of the WNDR4500: »www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless···reviewed

Here is a review of the E4200v2: »www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless···reviewed

Here is a review of the WNDR3800: »www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless···reviewed

Here is a review of the WNDR4000: »www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless···reviewed

The EA line is still new to the market but here is some assessments I made »Re: [Wireless] Linksys EA4500 router?



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

Great info, thanks Mike! I looked at the E4200v2, but at 199 bucks it was just too much. The refurbed one on Cisco's site comes out to 160 with taxes and shipping, so still more than I wanted to pay.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3

1 edit

1 recommendation

true. I was gonna give you a coupon for 20% off plus it has free shipping lol anyway no problem
did you check the reviews?



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

1 edit

1 recommendation

Thanks for the offer anyway! I got the N750 all set up and running, should I enable IPv6 or leave it disabled for now? I don't think they're running it in our area yet. There are several settings under it-

Disabled
Auto Detect
6to4 Tunnel
Pass Through
Fixed
DHCP
PPPoE
Auto Config

I know PPPoE is for DSL, so we can throw that guy out.

Edit-This is interesting-

Your DNS server (possibly run by your ISP) appears to have IPv6 internet access.

I got that after running the tests at »test-ipv6.comcast.net/



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

Well it would depend on two factors, if you want to use an IPv6 tunnel like I'm doiing, or if you don't and just want to wait for Comcast to get around to sending out the IPv6 data sometime late this year. I use Hurricane Electric »tunnelbroker.net/

Well we know that the usual internet connection type setting on routers for cable service is DHCP since the router is given an address from the modem. I'm not familiar with what the difference is between Auto Config and Auto Detect. I would try Auto Config, Auto Detect, Pass Through, and DHCP and see what results you get. Here is something I found on the Netgear site. »forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=60511

Yeah it's wierd, I'm seeing the same results when I do the tests as well. I feel like either someone told us why this was occurring but I don't remember what the answer was sorry.



RR Conductor
NWP RR Inc.,serving NW CA
Premium
join:2002-04-02
Redwood Valley, CA
kudos:1

4 edits

Wow, lots of good info, thanks! I may do the HE Tunnel, I set up an account, now to create a tunnel.

»ipv6.he.net/certification/faq.php

How to create a 6in4 tunnel (also known as a configured tunnel):

1. Visit our tunnelbroker.net site and log in.
2. Once you log into the site, click "Create Regular Tunnel" and provide your IPv4 endpoint address and choose a preferable tunnel server location. (Note: Your IPv4 endpoint address should be displayed on the tunnel creation page)
3. After you successfully create a tunnel, visit your account's detail page and choose your OS type to get example configuration commands.
4. Use the commands to configure your machine. Please remember, you must have 'administrator' privilege to configure your machine.
5. Once you configure your machine, please browse sites like »ipv6.google.com or »kame.net to test your IPv6 connectivity.

*Two important notes:
1. Your IPv4 endpoint address must be reachable via ICMP (Internet Control Message Protocol).
2. If you are using a NAT (Network Address Translation) appliance, please make sure it allows and forwards protocol 41.
What is Protocol 41?
Protocol 41 is one of the Internet Protocol numbers. Within the IPv4 header, the IPv4 Protocol field is set to 41 to indicate an encapsulated IPv6 packet.
**Useful references:
1. Video Tutorials: »ipv6.he.net/presentations.php
2. Tunnel Broker Forums: »tunnelbroker.net/forums/

It looks like waiting for Comcast might be the simplest way to get this going, though this is a great learning experience on tunneling and IPv6. A lot to digest, I think I'll leave it for tomorrow.

Edit-Since that is a 6to4 Tunnel, I would guess I select that in my router's IPv6 settings.



Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit

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I just followed these instructions. »www.tunnelbroker.net/forums/inde···c=1850.0

Here is an excerpt from my own setup.

The client IPv4 address is the IP address I get from Comcast.
I set my router to 6RD manual.
I put into my router the Prefix which is 2001:470:1f07:46
the Prefix length which is 64
the Boarder Relay which is 209.51.161.14
and the IPv4 Address Mask Length which is 32

Some more reading for you. »www.tunnelbroker.net/forums/inde···c=1561.0
»forum1.netgear.com/showthread.php?t=63195

If you have any questions please let me know so I can help