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saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2

[PvP] Holy Pally DPS

I had a couple of arena matches last night in 2v2 where my partner ended up KIA right at the same time as the enemy team's healer died. That left me as a holy pally solo against a DK the first time, a rogue the second, and a warrior the third.

In each instance I eventually ended up just quitting the arena, I could keep myself up and unless they got lucky with a stun or cc and proc, they had little hope of being able to kill me. I'm ok with that

What I found quite annoying though is that I couldn't make a dent on their health. With them having good pvp gear on, my damage as a holy pally is so pathetic that they regen hp as fast as I could do any damage. Does that seem broken to anyone? Do you think that a holy class ought to be able to do enough damage to eventually (even if it takes 5-10 min) kill an opponent if they are able to dps and keep themselves alive at the same time?

My resto shammy is not 85 yet, but it feels like it actually does some dps, unlike the pally.

Thoughts?
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cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE

TBH no a healer shouldnt be able to kill an equally gear pvp dps class, but like you said you shouldnt die 1v1 to one either, particularly with pallies.

the days of the shockidins are done, i wish they werent but they are.
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
I've lost the bleeps, I've lost the creeps and I've lost the sweeps.



Phantasee

join:2009-08-27
Hammond, LA
reply to saillaw

Me and my wife and another friend use to world PvP with 3 shockadins and man did people get raped.



saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
reply to cymraeg

To me though there ought to be somesort of level playing field. if the dps went afk and i could use all my cooldowns on dps, and cast uninteruppted then yes I could eventually kill them. But if they are half way present there is no way I can kill them.

Where on the other hand, if I screw up once, they can quickly kill me.

With a holy pally in 2v2, if your dps dies its game over 100% of the time. But for other healing classes, I'm not sure that's the case? Or maybe its just a wrong impression on my part? Is the dps for other healers as pathetic as Holy Pally dps?
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cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE

at that level in relationship to end game pvp gear yes it is, a focused healer is a dead healer, there in lies the problem with resilience, which is why the new gear is going to give pvp powa and def, to hopfully give healers a fighting chance
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
I've lost the bleeps, I've lost the creeps and I've lost the sweeps.



quatra
Premium
join:2003-06-22
Matthews, NC
reply to saillaw

IMHO if things are balanced properly and both players are "skill capped" it should be impossible to get a kill in a dps vs healer situation. I think resto shaman/disc priests do more dps than holy palis/resto druids but it's still not enough since I believe all DPS classes have some sort of self healing.



saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
reply to saillaw

It just reminds me of a three year old throwing a fit and banging on your leg... It's pathetic to see that pally beating on the dps who might as well just be dancing or /loling because there is no way for the pally to kill them.



quatra
Premium
join:2003-06-22
Matthews, NC

I pvp as a resto shaman. If I outgear/outskill a dps I will kill them no doubt about it. If that's not the case for pali's maybe bliz should fix that.


Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to Phantasee

shockadins the killer caster pally! fun times



DownLow
Nope...I Got Nothing
Premium
join:2001-04-25
Long Island

said by Josof:

shockadins the killer caster pally! fun times

Yep! I remember defending a flag in AB, solo against 2 or 3 dps and not only killing them, but being nearly un-killable. I always thought that there is nothing worse than being killed by a holy pally!
--
Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult!


Cake
Premium
join:2009-09-29
united state
reply to saillaw

I do not play Pali, but would a HoJ, HoP, hasted rez on your partner be doable?

I have been able to rez a partner in 2s a few times as Disc.


cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE

depending on the dr for the stuns yo9uve already hit your target with maybe with enough haste you could get the cast off, but for a pally unlikely in a 2s match, 3s is much more doable
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
I've lost the bleeps, I've lost the creeps and I've lost the sweeps.



saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
reply to Cake

said by Cake:

I do not play Pali, but would a HoJ, HoP, hasted rez on your partner be doable?

I have been able to rez a partner in 2s a few times as Disc.

Good question, but unless the opposition has their head up their ass you just cant get the rez off in time before they hit you (any damage interuppts the rez as it puts you back in combat). Once you stun them, wait the few sec to get out of combat, start the rez, you are only half way done with the rez cast before they can break it.

I guess I'll try making a macro to cut down on the seconds and see if I can pull that off, but it will be luck.
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Venom1

join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA
reply to saillaw

said by quatra:

IMHO if things are balanced properly and both players are "skill capped" it should be impossible to get a kill in a dps vs healer situation. I think resto shaman/disc priests do more dps than holy palis/resto druids but it's still not enough since I believe all DPS classes have some sort of self healing.

truth... you said it all in your opening post, DK, Rogue, Warrior. All three have great self healing for dps classes. Between death strikes, recuperation, and enraged regeneration you shouldn't be able to kill them. 1.5 second Flash of light/insta-flash, WOG, holy shock on yourself rightly keeps you up indefinately in a 1v1 situation, but the trade off is you do very little damage that matters. If you want a great healing class that owns the damage meters as well you need to reroll a DK circa WotLK release.
--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.


Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com
reply to saillaw

said by saillaw:

It just reminds me of a three year old throwing a fit and banging on your leg... It's pathetic to see that pally beating on the dps who might as well just be dancing or /loling because there is no way for the pally to kill them.

Back about 8 months ago, I did an arena match where all that was left was a warrior and myself (a holy pally). He beat on me for 15 minutes and I just kept healing. I asked my partner what he wanted me to do, and he said just to stay in the game. Finally, after another 5 minutes, he just quit. I suppose I could have just quit too, and now when I reflect on it, it was a waste of 25 minutes of my life. No way was I going to be able to kill that MS Warrior. Back in the day with my disc priest, I used to be able to outlast warriors by keeping myself healed and doing small amounts of damage to them. Who wants to fight for 20 minutes though?
--
My domain - Nightfall.net


saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
reply to Venom1

I think you are missing the point. I'm not asking to be a shockadin. I don't think holy pallies outght to be able to do insane dps, or even good dps, just a little dps (instead of the current slightly less than zero dps).

The decision matrix for the holly pally in the situation I described above is currently: a) I can stay alive forever, unless I screw up, and hope to outlast the dps either to bring a tie or hope they just give up, or b) I can just give up now and move on to the next match. What I am saying is there should be a third option: c) I can risk spending some of my GCD's on dps instead of self healing and if I can manage to do that without getting killed, then I have a chance of killing this dps in several minutes.
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Nightfall
My Goal Is To Deny Yours
Premium,MVM
join:2001-08-03
Grand Rapids, MI
Reviews:
·ooma
·Comcast
·Callcentric
·Site5.com

said by saillaw:

I think you are missing the point. I'm not asking to be a shockadin. I don't think holy pallies outght to be able to do insane dps, or even good dps, just a little dps (instead of the current slightly less than zero dps).

The decision matrix for the holly pally in the situation I described above is currently: a) I can stay alive forever, unless I screw up, and hope to outlast the dps either to bring a tie or hope they just give up, or b) I can just give up now and move on to the next match. What I am saying is there should be a third option: c) I can risk spending some of my GCD's on dps instead of self healing and if I can manage to do that without getting killed, then I have a chance of killing this dps in several minutes.

I agree, that 3rd option doesn't exist right now though. As it stands now, its a wash. There is no way, unless you screw up, that he is going to be able to kill you. With no way that you can kill him though, the onus is all on the DPS. I would love to see that 3rd option, but I doubt we will.
--
My domain - Nightfall.net