resa1983Premium
join:2008-03-10
North York, ON
kudos:7 Reviews:
 ·TekSavvy Cable
| CRTC looking for comments on #### Confidentiality of information used to establish wholesale service rates
»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2012/2012-168.htm
quote:
6. The Commission notes that in other proceedings it has received comments in which parties have submitted that they do not have sufficient access to incumbent carriers’ costing information to permit them to participate fully in the regulatory process.
7. The Commission considers that it is in the public interest to obtain as full and complete a record as possible on which to base its decisions with respect to rates for wholesale services. It further considers that it is in the public interest that this information should be obtained on as timely a basis as possible.
8. Further the Commission notes that parties other than the incumbent carriers may have expertise related to the evaluation of the incumbent carriers’ cost studies. The Commission therefore considers that to the extent these parties may have increased access to incumbent carrier information that is currently considered to be confidential they may be able to contribute to the development of a more full and complete record.
I'm quite surprised they're opening this up to public comment. |
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 mlernerPremium
join:2000-11-25
Nepean, ON
kudos:5 | Good. I hope certain parties *cough* JF *cough* will comment on this.
I'm sure I've said this before but if they do public proceedings on wholesale terms and rates then obviously we also need to see the actual costing information from the incumbents. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6
1 edit | said by mlerner:Good. I hope certain parties *cough* JF *cough* will comment on this.
I'm sure I've said this before but if they do public proceedings on wholesale terms and rates then obviously we also need to see the actual costing information from the incumbents.
Ahem, JF, has your radar picked up this apparently concilliatory gesture ?  |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6 | reply to resa1983
said by resa1983:....I'm quite surprised they're opening this up to public comment.
Normally, my reply to #### would be $#@! 
Almost seems like a symbolic 'Breath of Fresh Spring Air', as it were.
Are we in a parallel universe ? [Dave wonders how to check for that.]
Surely with this wonderful weather, 'Golfing' should have started early, yet they ask us THIS ?
[Switching to Deep Ominous Movie Trailer Announcer voice]
Is B$ELL capable of transparency with their ####s ?
Or is this like when the strip teaser pulls down the garment of clothing an inch or two, only to pull it back up ?
(Yes, I know - two different kinds of 'FIGURES' depicted )
Find out in a future episode....
--
We have only 2 things about which to worry -
(1) That things will never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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| reply to resa1983
This will be fascinating. We may end up learning that the costs actually aren't all invented by rolling dice and random number generators. Or that they are. Either way, one party won't be happy with the outcome. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6 |
ROFLPML @ "or that they ARE". 
Maybe BLOD (Best Laugh of Day) |
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grunze510
join:2009-02-14
Cote Saint-Luc, QC
kudos:1 | They'll use »www.random.org/ to decide whether they use a random number generator or a pair of dice.
Meanwhile, the real rates that they do show off are either from 1990 or 2005, depending on the temperature in Iqaluit. If it's above 10℃, then it's from 2005, if it's below 10℃, then it's from 1990. |
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| reply to Davesnothere
Yes, this is fantastic news. Bringing in a trusted third party, to review submitted costs from the incumbents, is brilliant thinking from the CRTC, & absolutely concurs with their mandate to serve the public interest.
JF, you must be pleased with this news, n'est-ce pas? |
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| reply to grunze510
said by grunze510:They'll use »www.random.org/ to decide whether they use a random number generator or a pair of dice.
Meanwhile, the real rates that they do show off are either from 1990 or 2005, depending on the temperature in Iqaluit. If it's above 10℃, then it's from 2005, if it's below 10℃, then it's from 1990.
Part of the cost structure involves including the green fees. With this short winter, I am sure a lot of Golf will be played. |
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| reply to freejazz_RdJ
said by freejazz_RdJ:Or that they are. Either way, one party won't be happy with the outcome. I imagine we'll have many very sad pandas on our hands if it turns out that Robelgecotron's costs actually are defensible... and unfortunately for us, I predict that most of it will be. |
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jfmezeiPremium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:22 | Thanks for the heads up. Not sure what possible outcome this can have because confidential information is confidential. But it is interesting.
I should have bought a shitload of red bull when it was on sale. :-( |
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| said by jfmezei:Not sure what possible outcome this can have because confidential information is confidential. But it is interesting. Considering how much harm that confidentiality is causing to the whole process, the CRTC's credibility, the incumbents' credibility, the ISPs and associated organizations, etc., the CRTC might have finally decided that the benefits of disclosure far outweigh any potential competitive harm that could possibly be caused by disclosure.
At this point, it seems highly unlikely the "wholesalegate" could reach a final resolution any other way. |
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 EUSKill cancerPremium
join:2002-09-10
canada
 ·voip.ms
| reply to InvalidError
Absolutely. Costs can be anything they wish, all they require is to include overhead and burden, impossible for an outsider without the detailed data to counter.
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~ Project Hope ~ |
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jfmezeiPremium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:22 | Ironic because my last submission done on the 21st on the service charge tariffs started with:
quote:
Vaxination Informatique submits its comments on the various tariffs dealing with service charges for changing purchased capacity in the new wholesale internet access billing set by TRP 2011-703. Because Vaxination is not privy to the numbers hidden behind the “#” signs, it can only deal on general issues which are common to incumbents. Hence a single submission.
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 elwoodbluesElwood BluesPremium
join:2006-08-30
HarperLand
 ·Cybersurf Intern..
| reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:At this point, it seems highly unlikely the "wholesalegate" could reach a final resolution any other way.
Not till all the IISP's are gone, that's for sure. Robellus will spend their last dime fighting them.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake....... |
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| reply to resa1983
said by resa1983:I'm quite surprised they're opening this up to public comment.
I expect some colourful language to emerge. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6
1 edit | reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:Ironic because my last submission done on the 21st on the service charge tariffs started with:
quote:
Vaxination Informatique submits its comments on the various tariffs dealing with service charges for changing purchased capacity in the new wholesale internet access billing set by TRP 2011-703. Because Vaxination is not privy to the numbers hidden behind the “#” signs, it can only deal on general issues which are common to incumbents. Hence a single submission.
[facetious] NOW we know where the CRTC got the idea to be curious !
It's all YOUR fault, JF !  [/facetious]
EDIT : Added tags for IE (and anyone else)
--
We have only 2 things about which to worry -
(1) That things will never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.
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| said by Davesnothere:NOW we know where the CRTC got the idea to be curious ! The CRTC is not "getting curious" since they already had all the numbers they needed to derive Bell&friends' proposed tariff rates from "in confidence" filings. What they want is to open enough of those to the public so third-parties can repeat the CRTC's exercise and probably reach similar conclusions/rates as the CRTC has. |
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| reply to freejazz_RdJ
said by freejazz_RdJ:This will be fascinating. We may end up learning that the costs actually aren't all invented by rolling dice and random number generators. Or that they are. Either way, one party won't be happy with the outcome.
If I recall right, CNOC filed about the ##### Monkey business, demanding some answers.
However, I don't expect it to be part of any public record. If anything Rogers will fight more so than Bell, Videotron and Telus to prevent this.
Rogers has a history of trying to muscle the CRTC from preventing any sort of information to be shown. Including the filing where some kid got ripped off with text message fee's and it hit the CRTC. Rogers blew a fuse that the CRTC wanted it on pubic record. heh
Or, the CRTC is just caving to public pressure about all these BS #####'s and all this is is a show that will go nowhere. |
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DavesnothereNo-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
join:2009-06-15
START&Cogeco
kudos:6 | reply to InvalidError
said by InvalidError:The CRTC is not "getting curious" since they already had all the numbers they needed to derive Bell&friends' proposed tariff rates from "in confidence" filings. What they want is to open enough of those to the public so third-parties can repeat the CRTC's exercise and probably reach similar conclusions/rates as the CRTC has.
IOW, they do not want to be held solely (at some future date) responsible for just taking B$ELLetc's word for the numbers behind the various ####s.
They would rather share that potential burden with some of the other interested parties by making them more participative in the process.
Besides, there are some sharp minds out there which would either confirm or dispute the hidden numbers, and the CRTC might well be just as curious as WE are to get some feedback from those minds.
I DO get all that, and was just being facetious earlier - sometimes that is hard to do textually, so I also amended that post by adding tags.
--
We have only 2 things about which to worry -
(1) That things will never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
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START Forum »Start Communications
Or you can still use Canadian Broadband.
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