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openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to ITALIAN926

Re: Other competitors?

said by ITALIAN926:

They have never sold FiOS ( or any other wireline products) in their stores, now they will be selling cable company products, u dont find anything wrong with that?

No more wrong than reselling DBS. It's a mutually beneficial business arrangement...nothing more, nothing less.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

2 edits
Oh, I see , so its ok for Verizon to self destroy its own wireline business because it increases its net profits? Alright.

Competition and Anti-trust laws have nothing to do with this, huh? Its ok to basically have one choice of wireline services... Time Warner, Comcast, Brighthouse, etc. As long as Verizon is paired with them wirelessly, that will somehow bring prices down for consumers.?

What is today? Opposite Day ?

Oh, and re: "reselling DBS" , guess what would NOT be happening if Verizon FioS was deployed everywhere within their footprint. So your comment is completely null.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2

1 edit
said by ITALIAN926:

Oh, I see , so its ok for Verizon to self destroy its own wireline business because it increases its net profits?

I believe you're being overly dramatic. VZ isn't destroying its wireline business anymore than it wants to. VZ's management is consciously making a strategic decision to focus on wireless right now...not much different than the strategic decision it made previous to 2007 to focus on FiOS.
said by ITALIAN926:

Its ok to basically have one choice of wireline services.

That is a different discussion.
said by ITALIAN926:

As long as Verizon is paired with them wirelesssly, that will somehow bring prices down for consumers.

That's not the point of this business arrangement. Why would you even realistically think lower prices are part of this arrangement?

BTW, this story is about a handful of cities filing a complaint because they feel wronged by a business that doesn't want to expend additional resources in their jurisdictions. We've gone off topic.

Edit for your edit:
said by ITALIAN926:

Oh, and re: "reselling DBS" , guess what would NOT be happening if Verizon FioS was deployed everywhere within their footprint. So your comment is completely null.

argh...I feel like I'm going around in circles. How is my comment irrelevant?


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Its not off topic at all. The arrangements we speak of will guarantee that FiOS will never be brought to these cities.

Its not ok for Verizon to sell wireline services of other companies in areas where the have their own wired products. Under no circumstances is that OK.

If Verizon thinks this deal will move forward without heavy restrictions, they need to find some people to run this company with a bit more IQ points.

I had to add a question mark to one of the quotes bc you missed my sarcasm.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
It is off topic and these arrangements don't guarantee anything.
said by ITALIAN926:

Its not ok for Verizon to sell wireline services of other companies in areas where the have their own. Under no circumstances is that OK.

Why?
said by ITALIAN926:

I had to add a question mark to one of the quotes bc you missed my sarcasm.

So you asked a rhetorical question about price decreases for consumers. I didn't miss it, but for those that believe any business intends to lower prices for consumers is misguided...unless the business is able to increase revenue by doing so.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
Please tell me how this is anti-competitive.

Verizon agrees to purchase spectrum licenses from a consortium of cable companies that was never going to utilize the spectrum. As part of the deal, an agreement is made to resell each other's services. I don't believe this deal is exclusive. The competitive landscape hasn't changed. The same number of players will exist in the marketplace after the deal that exists today. Other "competitors" aren't prohibited from striking similar deals to the best of my knowledge. Competitors aren't prohibited from entering any of these markets.

So once again, what is anti-competitive?


kpfx

join:2005-10-28
San Antonio, TX
reply to ITALIAN926
Did you actually read any of the references you posted or did you just want to post links to seem relevant? Please cite properly.

CLECs, ILECs and Cable Companies have already been reselling each other's local loops in the business world for the past 20 years. Verizon Wireless reselling Comcast's home phone service is just the business equivalent of Paetec-Windstream reselling voice & data services over a cable company's plant (which they do all the time).


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

4 edits
reply to openbox9
When someone walks into a VERIZON STORE. Whether its wireless or not, and THEY SELL CABLE SERVICES, instead of their OWN products, that is not only anti-competitive, but idiotic !

Its simply a way for them to accelerate their plans to self-destroy their wireline business in favor of wireless. How could you not understand this.

Verizon Wireless rep: " Dont get Verizon DSL or a landline, get Comcast Xfinity TV / Phone / Internet and bundle it with our cellphone service."

Youre kidding me right? Its like walking into McDonalds and the people working there tell the customer to go across the street to Burger King !

Keep supporting this business move. Youll end up with just one wireline choice with VZW attached to it, and no products to compete with it.

(psss I'll give you a hint as to what the next strategic move would be if this deal went forward.. their DSL prices will increase exponentially so that people will sign on to the cable co. bundle )

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to kpfx
Thank you for being a voice of reason.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
reply to ITALIAN926
said by ITALIAN926:

When someone walks into a VERIZON STORE. Whether its wireless or not, and THEY SELL CABLE SERVICES, instead of their OWN products, that is not only anti-competitive

Once again, how is it anti-competitive? You repeating the mantra doesn't make it any more accurate.
said by ITALIAN926:

How could you not understand this.

Apparently in the same manner that you can't seem to understand that a mutually beneficial agreement between VZ and a consortium of cable companies isn't anti-competitive in nature. If VZ truly wants to "destroy" its wireline business, it would opt to sell of its remaining unwanted assets before "destroying" value.
said by ITALIAN926:

Verizon Wireless rep: " Dont get Verizon DSL or a landline, get Comcast Xfinity TV / Phone / Internet and bundle it with our cellphone service."

Youre kidding me right? Its like walking into McDonalds and the people working there tell the customer to go across the street to Burger King !

Except McDonalds already sells burgers. Does VZ offer HSI in these markets? What markets are we even talking about?
said by ITALIAN926:

Keep supporting this business move. Youll end up with just one wireline choice with VZW attached to it, and no products to compete with it.

What's different now?


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
How are you making quotes, and asking questions, when the answer is in the quotes?

We are obviously not on the same page.

From what I can tell, is we MIGHT agree that Verizon should NOT be able to resell cable wireline services in areas of their OWN wireline areas. If not, I give up. Have a nice day.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by ITALIAN926:

How are you making quotes, and asking questions, when the answer is in the quotes?

Simple, the answers to my questions aren't in your responses, hence why I keep repeating my questions. My fundamental question still remains. Why do you believe this business arrangement is anti-competitive? Or perhaps we can go back to the original topic as to why you believe it appropriate for municipalities to whine complain to the FCC that VZ isn't deploying FTTH in their jurisdictions.
said by ITALIAN926:

From what I can tell, is we MIGHT agree that Verizon should NOT be able to resell cable wireline services in areas of their OWN wireline areas.

I disagree.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
quote:
Why do you believe this business arrangement is anti-competitive?
Verizon is not only endorsing a competitors products, but selling them ! Possibly in areas that they cover with their own wireline network ! Thats not anti-competitive? What are you a comedian?

quote:
I disagree.
Disagree all you want, we'll see what the FCC and DOJ feel about it.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by ITALIAN926:

Verizon is not only endorsing a competitors products, but selling them ! Possibly in areas that they cover with their own wireline network ! Thats not anti-competitive?

Why do you continue harping on the concept of "in VZ's own wireline market"? I don't understand the relevance of this and your complaints of the agreement being anti-competitive. Is VZ and this consortium of cable companies collaborating to exclude competitors from making similar arrangements (regardless of the cable plant owner)? If the answer to this question is demonstratively yes, then I'll agree with your anti-competitive assertion.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
Verizon should be selling their own wireline products competitive to the cable co.

Having " Verizon " sell both DSL/ Landlines, AND the cable companies TV/Cable internet/ VoiP is in the same areas, is ridiculous !

As long as Verizon Wireless and Verizon Wireline are under the same company stock, this deal represents conflict of interest and is damaging to competition.

Porky Pig will step in now.

openbox9
Premium
join:2004-01-26
Germany
kudos:2
said by ITALIAN926:

Having "Verizon" sell both DSL/ Landlines, AND the cable companies TV/Cable internet/ VoiP is in the same areas, is ridiculous!

Your opinion. I guess we'll eventually see from a legal perspective.
said by ITALIAN926:

As long as Verizon Wireless and Verizon Wireline are under the same company stock, this deal represents conflict of interest and is damaging to competition.

"Company stock" has absolutely nothing to do with this.


ITALIAN926

join:2003-08-16
kudos:2
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