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Kamus

join:2011-01-27
El Paso, TX

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by iFail 5G:

Ill take the 10GB cap for usable service any day

That doesn't make it any less of a joke though.
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by Kamus:

said by iFail 5G:

Ill take the 10GB cap for usable service any day

That doesn't make it any less of a joke though.

No, it doesn't. Its still ridiculous, and overpriced. But the buildout they have done in rural Alabama is amazing, and its a lot of people's only source of internet besides satellite so I am thinking it will be a hit.
Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by iFail 5G:

said by Kamus:

said by iFail 5G:

Ill take the 10GB cap for usable service any day

That doesn't make it any less of a joke though.

No, it doesn't. Its still ridiculous, and overpriced.

Not just overpriced, Verizon is charging at least 5 times what they should for an overage. If this is the result of de-regulation then we really need more regulation of companies like Verizon just to protect consumers.

45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

Five times? Try 500 times.

If you believe Verizon is paying anything more than an average of 2 cents/gig for Internet traffic then you've been brainwashed.

dennismurphy
Put me on hold? I'll put YOU on hold
Premium
join:2002-11-19
Parsippany, NJ
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS

1 recommendation

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by 45612019:

Five times? Try 500 times.

If you believe Verizon is paying anything more than an average of 2 cents/gig for Internet traffic then you've been brainwashed.

... Because base stations are free, right?

45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

1 recommendation

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

No. They're paid for by having numerous subscribers forking out $60 or more a month for service.

Implementing low bandwidth caps with high overage fees is completely unnecessary to recoup deployment costs. That's what the subscriber fee is for. Vastly marked up bandwidth overage fees are just an opportunity to price gouge the consumer.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

Have you been on an overcrowded (non-D3) cable node? If VZW had unlimited data on LTE, that's what it would feel like. They have 22MHz of spectrum, and you can only pack in ~71 Mbps of capacity on that.

$10 per GB for fixed service is definitely overpriced. However data centers charge 10 cents per GB for overage bandwidth...to say that $10 per GB is overpriced by a factor of 500 is uninformed.

45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

Yes. I have been. And it was fine.

I'd rather my connection drop down to half its speed during peak hours than be artificially limited to only using it for a tiny fraction of my billing period.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

The only thing I can agree with you, so far, is that the way they impose the caps is a bit off the mark to me. They should only need to throttle or over-chage during peak times or on a "smart management" sort of system. Such as once you hit your ceiling and it's peak, then that usage could be charged as a "premium" rate in order to encourage the user to utilize the network during off peak or overnight hours when possible.

Outside of that, you're still way off.
Crookshanks

join:2008-02-04
Binghamton, NY
said by 45612019:

I'd rather my connection drop down to half its speed during peak hours than be artificially limited to only using it for a tiny fraction of my billing period.

Do the rest of us get a vote? You know, those of us who need to occasionally download something big and whom aren't looking to use LTE as a replacement for purpose-designed video delivery systems?

45612019

join:2004-02-05
New York, NY

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

No.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1
said by iansltx:

Have you been on an overcrowded (non-D3) cable node? If VZW had unlimited data on LTE, that's what it would feel like. They have 22MHz of spectrum, and you can only pack in ~71 Mbps of capacity on that.

$10 per GB for fixed service is definitely overpriced. However data centers charge 10 cents per GB for overage bandwidth...to say that $10 per GB is overpriced by a factor of 500 is uninformed.

Do you know how they deal with unlimited 3G smartphone users? They throttle speeds when towers are congested.

Okay Ian, let's see these paltry caps are necessary. Then why doesn't Verizon offer unlimited off-peak hours? Say between 12 AM and 8 AM? No one's even awake at the time. Ultra congested satellite offers FAP free during those hours as well.
iansltx

join:2007-02-19
Austin, TX
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Time Warner Cable
·Verizon Online DSL
·Comcast

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

It's harder to market a product with cap-free times, maybe?

If I was running a network with relatively low capacity at peak but low off-peak usage, I'd offer some sort of incentive for off-peak usage. Verizon not doing this (just like WildBlue has never done this) is there prerogative. HughesNet is the only major provider to offer a cap-free period in the US.
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by iansltx:

It's harder to market a product with cap-free times, maybe?

If I was running a network with relatively low capacity at peak but low off-peak usage, I'd offer some sort of incentive for off-peak usage. Verizon not doing this (just like WildBlue has never done this) is there prerogative. HughesNet is the only major provider to offer a cap-free period in the US.

The reason they're not doing it is because they want to profit heartily off of idiots who don't know what a "cap" is. Provide people with the low latency and high bandwidth required to watch videos, and watch the overage profits pour in. They won't even considering just throttling users instead of overcharging them.

Off-peak hours makes perfect sense only if you don't care about maximizing profits at the expense of your customers. Throttling only on congested hours while offering unlimited is also quite possible, especially in these very sparsely populated rural areas.
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

1 recommendation

said by 45612019:

No. They're paid for by having numerous subscribers forking out $60 or more a month for service.

Implementing low bandwidth caps with high overage fees is completely unnecessary to recoup deployment costs. That's what the subscriber fee is for. Vastly marked up bandwidth overage fees are just an opportunity to price gouge the consumer.

Have you ever run a company? .. it sure doesn't sound like it. According to you, the activist however, anything that doesn't fit your agenda by any company is going to be foul.

Towers, power, backhaul, employees, workmans comp, insurance (health and liability) taxes of all sorts, advertising, customer service, installation expenses, maintenance, the data itself, government affairs, the cost of spectrum, fuel, vehicle maintenance, the list goes on.. those are expenses.. and as someone that DOES run a business I can tell you that arguments that people like you make just irritate the hell out of me. You think you have it all figured out.. you think it's all about bandwidth. Oh, and they are allowed to make a profit too.

Now please, go on to tell me how all the stuff I mentioned above has nothing to do with the cost of providing the service, for one reason or another.

I don't know where you people get these figures and formulas you come up with to justify your position, but you're FAR FAR FAR off the mark most of the time.

But yea.. it's all about punitive caps and overages so they can gouge the consumer.
chances14

join:2010-03-03
Michigan

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by fiberguy:

said by 45612019:

No. They're paid for by having numerous subscribers forking out $60 or more a month for service.

Implementing low bandwidth caps with high overage fees is completely unnecessary to recoup deployment costs. That's what the subscriber fee is for. Vastly marked up bandwidth overage fees are just an opportunity to price gouge the consumer.

Have you ever run a company? .. it sure doesn't sound like it. According to you, the activist however, anything that doesn't fit your agenda by any company is going to be foul.

Towers, power, backhaul, employees, workmans comp, insurance (health and liability) taxes of all sorts, advertising, customer service, installation expenses, maintenance, the data itself, government affairs, the cost of spectrum, fuel, vehicle maintenance, the list goes on.. those are expenses.. and as someone that DOES run a business I can tell you that arguments that people like you make just irritate the hell out of me. You think you have it all figured out.. you think it's all about bandwidth. Oh, and they are allowed to make a profit too.

Now please, go on to tell me how all the stuff I mentioned above has nothing to do with the cost of providing the service, for one reason or another.

I don't know where you people get these figures and formulas you come up with to justify your position, but you're FAR FAR FAR off the mark most of the time.

But yea.. it's all about punitive caps and overages so they can gouge the consumer.

you gotta remember though that the majority of people on here do not/have not run their own business so they only look at stuff through a consumer point of view so it's understandable why people are uninformed and have no clue about underlying expenses

and remember around here any business that makes a profit is consider evil and greedy
fiberguy
My views are my own.
Premium
join:2005-05-20
kudos:3

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

And I agree with you.. and I accept that. But the problem is that when they go beyond just a "thought" and try to push it out as a matter of fact.. that's where I will take on the debate.
GroovyPhoenx

join:2006-05-22
Gloucester, ON
It does, of course! It's called the price of doing business. Making a profit? No that's not a crime. Profeteering however is. and at the cost and even with a markup, if the bandwidth cost and all those mentioned merited SOME markup it certainly shouldn't be from 10 cents to 10$! that's just ludicrous,

Just because someone CAN make that much a profit doesn't mean they SHOULD.

I can charge 100000000 to optimize a PC, but that doesn't mean I'll get it. Healthy competition keeps pries down, but companies like verizon etc don't want that to happen, instead those profit dollars are spent on big "donations" on senators/congressman to make sure they get their way. Hire more lobyists, and kill teh american economy. You want to blame folks for that? Blame moneygrubbing people who just think of the all mighty dolla.
travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by GroovyPhoenx:

It does, of course! It's called the price of doing business. Making a profit? No that's not a crime. Profeteering however is. and at the cost and even with a markup,

Really? Please cite the law that states that "profeteering", whatever that is, is illegal. Aside from a few state and local laws regarding pricing during or immediately after an emergency, I'm not aware of any.

said by GroovyPhoenx:

Just because someone CAN make that much a profit doesn't mean they SHOULD.

I think you might want to take a basic refresher course in economics. Just because someone can make a profit means they absolutely should. Those profits are turned around and spent on other products and services, which in turn puts other people to work and allows those business owners to make a profit.

anon222

@adstx.net
That is a nice set of examples but you left out the fact that those costs don't increase once someone hit a magic number of GB's. You think tech support starts making a higher hourly wage or suddenly hires more people when you hit a certain GB? Think their employee insurance rates go up once I hit 10GB? lol They aren't increasing their backhual if they are rate limiting. Not one thing you listed goes up in cost when a user hits a magic number at which time they are exorbitantly charged for overages. Yes it is their choice but what the poster is getting at is the only cost that increases for Verizon is the cost of transfered bytes for said customer and the cost is very low for them. Instead of throttling they will impose crazy fees to line their pockets and advertise stunning speeds without rate limits!
travelguy

join:1999-09-03
Santa Fe, NM

1 recommendation

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

[
said by anon222 :

what the poster is getting at is the only cost that increases for Verizon is the cost of transfered bytes for said customer and the cost is very low for them.

What law requires that selling price be based on marginal cost?

Consider toll roads - If one additional vehicle goes across the road, do their costs increase? Should all the drivers get a rebate?

Consider airlines - If one more person gets on the plane, do their costs increase? Should that person fly free or all the other passenger tickets be reduced?

Pricing is based purely on what a person is willing to pay. If that covers costs plus a profit over the long term, then the business will continue. If not, it will shut down.

The primary flaw with cost plus pricing is that there is zero incentive to reduce the cost. If you know you are always going to get a certain percentage, why would you ever spend any money on improving what you are selling?

Profit is the motivation to invest. High profits attract competitors which drive prices down. Ultimately, the consumer can just say no and drive the company out of business. How's that for power?

EvelKub
Kitty is crazy
Premium
join:2002-03-17
Mesa, AZ
Consider how many towers must be installed in rural areas for this to work... The cost for the tower, antennas, cabinets, land, the cost for electricity, fiber runs and maintenance...

Now consider the number of people which will be served by each tower, which won't cover more than a 50 mile area. Each will likely opt for the lower package, as this is considered a luxury to most country-folk.

How long of a time-frame is okay in your mind for them to take to recover their initial investments?
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by EvelKub:

Consider how many towers must be installed in rural areas for this to work... The cost for the tower, antennas, cabinets, land, the cost for electricity, fiber runs and maintenance...

Now consider the number of people which will be served by each tower, which won't cover more than a 50 mile area. Each will likely opt for the lower package, as this is considered a luxury to most country-folk.

How long of a time-frame is okay in your mind for them to take to recover their initial investments?

Given much smaller WISPs are able to deploy wireless service to rural users on much smaller economies of scale and must rent bandwidth from Verizon, I think Verizon's costs aren't nearly as high you seem to believe.

If there are so few users, then congestion shouldn't be a problem. And if cost were high, they would simply raise the base price, not duplicitously trick users into paying massive overages when they accidentally go over their cap. Most of those rural folks don't even know what a "GB" is.
courty3210

join:2004-03-29
Wilmington, DE
yeah, they should run wires into every house and maintain that infrastructure....instead of a towers servicing hundreds of people at a time.

this is why they aren't running fiber anymore, towers are much cheaper to keep operating with hundreds of techs than thousands of techs servicing house calls.
chances14

join:2010-03-03
Michigan
said by 45612019:

Five times? Try 500 times.

If you believe Verizon is paying anything more than an average of 2 cents/gig for Internet traffic then you've been brainwashed.

can you give real, cold hard solid evidence to back that up that it only costs 2 cents a gig to deliver internet traffic or are you just doing what Karl does and guessing and making assumptions
sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24
Cleveland, OH
kudos:1

Re: A 10 GB cap? What a joke.

said by chances14:

said by 45612019:

Five times? Try 500 times.

If you believe Verizon is paying anything more than an average of 2 cents/gig for Internet traffic then you've been brainwashed.

can you give real, cold hard solid evidence to back that up that it only costs 2 cents a gig to deliver internet traffic or are you just doing what Karl does and guessing and making assumptions

This is from 2010: »www.dslprime.com/a-wireless-clou···gigabyte
iFail 5G

join:2011-08-03
said by 45612019:

Five times? Try 500 times.

If you believe Verizon is paying anything more than an average of 2 cents/gig for Internet traffic then you've been brainwashed.

So how expensive is your wireless network, sign me up for your unlimited LTE