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telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

1 recommendation

[Caps] What do you think Comcast should do now about its data ca



telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15

1 edit

Re: [Caps] What do you think Comcast should do now about its dat

I'm interested in knowing what possibility I left off, that caused the 1 "Other/None of the above" vote to be cast so far.

One other possibility that came to me now was a "time-of-day" cap, where usage would only be subject to a cap during "prime-time" hours (e.g., 6pm to 12mid local time).

Usage outside the prime-time hours would either be subject to a much higher or no cap.

This would allow the transfer of large amounts of data, for OS or application updates/patches/upgrades, on-line PC back-up apps, etc., to be done overnight without a major impact to your CHSI neighbors and your data cap.

One other possibilty, which I think almost no one would like however, is a metered billing, pay-by-the-Gigabyte approach!

dscline

join:2001-09-01
Atlanta, GA
reply to telcodad
From what I've understood, nothing really changed from the way it was previously, other than the fact that there is a stated limit. From what I've seen Comcast reps state in the past, the "250GB limit" is really just there so they have something to point to when they deem you an excessive user. From what I understand, there are still plenty of people who go over the limit without issues, and it has more to do with whether or not you are an "excessive user" on an over crowded node.


PeteC2
Got Mouse?
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join:2002-01-20
Bristol, CT
kudos:6
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to telcodad
Even with Netflix, I do not have any problem staying within the 250gb soft-cap, however, there is always the need for more, not less data access, so this should not be set in stone.

IMHO, I do think that those folks who get the highest speed tiers should have a correspondingly higher cap. After all, they pay for it, number one, and of course those are the folks who are going to utilize higher amounts of data.
--
Deeds, not words

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA
reply to telcodad
Comcast isn't going to change the cap, not because of this new XBox App debacle at least.
--
»www.TheExoticFish.com


C_Chipperson
Monster Rain
Premium
join:2009-01-17
00000
kudos:3
reply to telcodad
I would be happy being throttled (dynamically, based on current load in my area) after using 250GB... I would guess 99% of the time I wouldn't notice any throttling


SpottedCat

join:2004-06-27
Miami, FL

1 recommendation

reply to telcodad
The sad thing is Comcast doesn't need to have a cap at all.

With proper bandwidth management, heavy users can be de-prioritized so they don't affect the node. In fact, I believe their congestion control already does this.

I voted for "vary by HSI speed tier", which is realistic. I don't understand why the 100mbps customers have the same cap as the 8mbps ones. At the very least make it 500GB for the higher end tiers; it'll be hard for even a complete family to hit that unless they're Blackbeard-level media pirates.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to ExoticFish
said by ExoticFish:

Comcast isn't going to change the cap, not because of this new XBox App debacle at least.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this, as a large amount of scrutiny is being focused on this by the media now - see all of my posts in the thread that spawned this poll: »Comcast Xfinity for Xbox launching soon (possibly next week)

While Comcast may get this by the current Net Neutrality rules, focus is now being turned to what was in the agreement for their takeover of NBC-Universal: »dwmw.wordpress.com/2012/03/28/co···trality/

Evidence that all the media scrutiny is having an effect is that Comcast has now changed their excuse in their FAQ on the Xbox Vod service: »gigaom.com/video/comcast-xbox-faq-update/

Many Comcast employees and some upper management visit this forum, this is a chance to let them know what we, their customers, think.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to SpottedCat
said by SpottedCat:

I voted for "vary by HSI speed tier", which is realistic. I don't understand why the 100mbps customers have the same cap as the 8mbps ones. At the very least make it 500GB for the higher end tiers; it'll be hard for even a complete family to hit that unless they're Blackbeard-level media pirates.

That was my own vote too, for the same reason.

Right now, the New iPad users are finding that they are hitting their wireless data caps fairly quickly now that the iPad can use the higher-speed 4G LTE networks.

This is my idea on the variable caps:

Tier -- Monthly Cap
Economy -- 250GB
Performance -- 500GB
Blast! -- 750GB
Extreme 50 -- 1TB
Extreme 105 -- 2TB


tshirt
Premium,MVM
join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 recommendation

said by telcodad:

This is my idea on the variable caps:

Tier -- Monthly Cap
Economy -- 250GB
Performance -- 500GB
Blast! -- 750GB
Extreme 50 -- 1TB
Extreme 105 -- 2TB

This is the problem I see with raising the cap threads.

NONE of us are in a position to KNOW
1} what total capacity CC's network can actually support nationwide to EVERY sub (though we all know some areas still have congestion/ToD slowdowns on a daily basis
2}What the finanicial cost of providing X capacity footprint wide would be (both for bandwidth and buildout/heavy plant upgrades to reach that level.)
3} What effect that would have on rates, nor what effect the inevitable price increase would have on take rates.

It's easy to throw out some big numbers that meet YOUR needs/dreams, but no more realistic or useful than hopeing Bill Gates needs your help spending money.

It is unlikely additional bandwidth is free or even currently possible.


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by tshirt:

NONE of us are in a position to KNOW
1} what total capacity CC's network can actually support nationwide to EVERY sub (though we all know some areas still have congestion/ToD slowdowns on a daily basis
2}What the finanicial cost of providing X capacity footprint wide would be (both for bandwidth and buildout/heavy plant upgrades to reach that level.)
3} What effect that would have on rates, nor what effect the inevitable price increase would have on take rates.

It's easy to throw out some big numbers that meet YOUR needs/dreams, but no more realistic or useful than hopeing Bill Gates needs your help spending money.

It is unlikely additional bandwidth is free or even currently possible.

I still like this reader response to a pro-cap blog post from Phillip Dampier of Stopthecap.com:

"I don't see a whole lot of opposition to Comcast not capping Xbox content. What consumer groups like ours are opposed to is the fact they are still capping everyone else. Comcast is the same company that complained pre-DOCSIS 3 its 250GB cap was to maintain an even customer experience for its shared broadband network and to prevent last mile congestion.

DOCSIS 3 solved that problem, and Comcast has no problem finding unlimited capacity for its Xbox service. But somehow, mysteriously, they still need a 250GB cap on residential broadband service? Amazing that. Apparently last mile congestion is only a problem when you want it to be. Data is data is data. How you treat it and how much capacity you make available to handle it makes all the difference, and that is where the problem is. Plenty of space for Xbox, last mile congestion threat for broadband. It doesn't add up.'

Comcast can solve this PR dilemma in a second by simply removing its 250GB usage cap. It can then do whatever it wants with its network and not have a thing to worry about from consumer advocates like ourselves who see right through the Swiss Cheese holes in their logic for a usage cap they just proved they don't actually need."

Phillip Dampier
Stopthecap.com"


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to telcodad
I see that the "Totally remove it" choice has taken a slight lead now.

While I don't want to discourage people from voting how they feel, I personally don't think unlimited data is a realistic possibility now.

More and more ISPs/Wireless Service Providers are capping, or at least throttling, their data plans. Even AT&T Wireless's "grandfathered" "unlimited" data plan customers are now being harrassed to control their usage or face severe throttling (»AT&T Wages Quiet War on Grandfathered Unlimited Users).

Having no restrictions at all for everyone would probably lead to actual service slowdowns, especially during prime usage times. Maybe, as I suggested as another possibility above, is to have a cap only during "prime-time" hours.

earletp

join:2004-02-03
PDX
reply to telcodad
If they get too much blow back, maybe they'll just say, "You have convinced us you're correct, we made a mistake and are going to cap the Xbox service too."


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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Reviews:
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reply to telcodad
I'm not sure what AT&T/other ISP's/ or wireless providers have to do with ComCasts cap.

The trouble is "prime time" isn't easy to define legally or to users on a realtime basis... only the NOC/cmts sees the current bandwidth useage and congestion occuring/about to occur (some of this is statistically prediectable on a short term basis so ultimately ComCast must control the congestion from their end, it can't just be by ToD as decided by a given user.


telcodad
Premium
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Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to earletp
said by earletp:

If they get too much blow back, maybe they'll just say, "You have convinced us you're correct, we made a mistake and are going to cap the Xbox service too."

Yes, As they say, "be careful that you don't end up driving the wrong behavior."

If they do this, however, I think it will only result in them also raising the overall cap.

Or they could just say something like "if you sign up for this app, we'll increase your HSI data cap to 500GB a month!"

Anyone have any idea how much data an Xbox 360 VoD app user might end up using over a month, if they use the VoD service 6 hours a day on average (i.e., about 180 total hours of usage a month)?


telcodad
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Lincroft, NJ
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reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

I'm not sure what AT&T/other ISP's/ or wireless providers have to do with ComCasts cap.

Yes, while every service provider's network is different, I mentioned what they were doing as indicating that the luxury of having "unlimited data" service is becoming scarcer and scarcer, as newer and newer IP devices and apps are starting to overwhelm these providers' existing networks, or even their attempts to build to keep up with their ever-increasing data demands!


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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Reviews:
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reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

DOCSIS 3 solved that problem, and Comcast has no problem finding unlimited capacity for its Xbox service. But somehow, mysteriously, they still need a 250GB cap on residential broadband service? Amazing that. Apparently last mile congestion is only a problem when you want it to be. Data is data is data. How you treat it and how much capacity you make available to handle it makes all the difference, and that is where the problem is. Plenty of space for Xbox, last mile congestion threat for broadband. It doesn't add up.'

Phillip Dampier

I am aware of Phillip Dampier OPINION.
Where I differ is the idea that ComCast must give ALL or ANY more of the additional bandwidth capacity created by D3 upgrades to HSI users for free.
they invested, it is reasonable that they montize it in a way that keeps rates stable for the majority of users.
They may CHOOSE to sell additional bandwidth blocks to heavier users (+ 25GB+$ XX) but the current 2 tier residential vs business system seems reasonable, fair, and simple (complex/confusing pricing schemes/grids are usually not really cheaper or consumer friendly )
But it is also reasonable that they keep some of that capacity and use it for additional "extra value" services over a private IP space i.e. a VPN within their network
The XBOX thing is just one of the possible uses.

ExoticFish

join:2008-08-31
Stuarts Draft, VA
reply to telcodad
Already been dismissed here. It's not changing anytime soon, not because of this.
--
»www.TheExoticFish.com


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
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Reviews:
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reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

Yes, while every service provider's network is different, I mentioned what they were doing as indicating that the luxury of having "unlimited data" service is becoming scarcer and scarcer, as newer and newer IP devices and apps are starting to overwhelm these providers' existing networks, or even their attempts to build to keep up with their ever-increasing data demands!

Exactly! Free and Unlimited are the most over used and inaccurate terms in these threads.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to telcodad
I would rather Comcast just increase the speed of each tier at no charge. Free speed upgrades for everyone!!


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to tshirt
said by tshirt:

Exactly! Free and Unlimited are the most over used and inaccurate terms in these threads.

That is why even I have said that I don't think unlimited data is a realistic possibility now.

My vote was for changing to a finite, but tier-varying, cap.

Right now, Comcast Business HSI is still unlimited. Does that IP traffic use the facilities and HSI QAMs that residential users in the same neighboring areas use?


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
·Comcast
Yup, it all comes over the same hybrid fiber/coax wire. and that still in some places, at some times is marginal/inadiquite to handle the current traffic level (i.e. areas which have not yet recieved D3 or the number of channels for d3 usage are limited, or areas where virtual nodes are maxed out and plant upgrades/more physical nodes are still in progress are most effected)
But business users are frequently on seperrate sets of channels with much lower contention which assures full speeds and available bandwidth as needed for which they pay a modest additional fee (a extra bandwidth tier, if you prefer that term .)


tshirt
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join:2004-07-11
Snohomish, WA
kudos:5
Reviews:
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reply to Mike Wolf
said by Mike Wolf:

I would rather Comcast just increase the speed of each tier at no charge. Free speed upgrades for everyone!!

I believe that will happen, once/if ComCast can reach the point that they are reasonably confident that the vast majority of their users can recieve full speeds 24/7 under normal circumstances and (virtually)all areas have D3 speed tiers available .
I believe we are getting closer to that point, but that is a rapidly moving target as average usage increases even if the top end is constricted.


espaeth
Digital Plumber
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join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
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reply to telcodad
said by telcodad:

DOCSIS 3 solved that problem, and Comcast has no problem finding unlimited capacity for its Xbox service.

I see 2 problems with this specific statement.

1) The DOCSIS 3 rollout provided a temporary increase in capacity over demand, the same way that 640K DSL provided a temporary increase over demand with dial-up users a decade ago. It only "solved" the problem if you believe that demand will not continue to grow.

2) The Xbox video service is a closed environment with tightly controlled content availability. Having "unlimited" access to a video ecosystem with limited content isn't the same thing as having unlimited access to the public Internet.


Mike Wolf

join:2009-05-24
Beachwood, NJ
kudos:4
reply to telcodad
Let's not forget that Comcast is doing this same video type service with TiVo's, which also connect to the internet to access these videos so who knows how this is going to affect everything.

psiu

join:2004-01-20
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·AT&T U-Verse
reply to telcodad
I voted for raise the cap...I know that from a technical standpoint, this is not needed (would prefer more of a throttling at peak hours to sustained downloads but whatever). If they want to put a cap on it to have it on people's minds, that's fine. However it should steadily grow every year to keep pace with increasingly heavy (and in general, more frequent) data needs.
--

--psiu


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by psiu:

However it should steadily grow every year to keep pace with increasingly heavy (and in general, more frequent) data needs.

While the idea of a "Cost of Living" raise each year for the data cap(s) crossed my mind also, the ability to raise it is not tied to rising customer data needs, but to how much extra capacity Comcast has been able to build to keep up with it!

Once they are able to double the capacity of the HSI plant, then they could then also double the cap(s).


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to espaeth
said by espaeth:

said by telcodad:

DOCSIS 3 solved that problem, and Comcast has no problem finding unlimited capacity for its Xbox service.

I see 2 problems with this specific statement.

1) The DOCSIS 3 rollout provided a temporary increase in capacity over demand, the same way that 640K DSL provided a temporary increase over demand with dial-up users a decade ago. It only "solved" the problem if you believe that demand will not continue to grow.

2) The Xbox video service is a closed environment with tightly controlled content availability. Having "unlimited" access to a video ecosystem with limited content isn't the same thing as having unlimited access to the public Internet.

Actually, that was not my quote, but that of Phillip Dampier of Stopthecap.com.

1) Agreed, but the digital migration freed up some spectrum for Comcast to add some more HSI QAMs as well as HDTV ones.

2) Still, Xbox VoD users may stream just as "hard" as Netflix customers. I have asked if anyone knows what the bit rate is for the Xbox VoD app. I believe a Netflix HD stream uses about 2GB an hour.


csiemers

join:2000-09-16
Portland, OR
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to SpottedCat
said by SpottedCat:

At the very least make it 500GB for the higher end tiers; it'll be hard for even a complete family to hit that unless they're Blackbeard-level media pirates.

That's funny, this family of three with streaming (netflix and korean tv) and gaming routinely does 600GB+, all legit. (I'm on Comcast Business with no caps.)

I voted to remove the cap completely.
--
»www.caryontech.com


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
said by csiemers:

said by SpottedCat:

At the very least make it 500GB for the higher end tiers; it'll be hard for even a complete family to hit that unless they're Blackbeard-level media pirates.

That's funny, this family of three with streaming (netflix and korean tv) and gaming routinely does 600GB+, all legit. (I'm on Comcast Business with no caps.)

I voted to remove the cap completely.

Yeah, well, how many in your family at least wear an eye-patch then?

I know there are many legit apps that are data "hungry."

One thing to check though, is if one or more of your PCs is not infected by a virus/trojan that could be stealthily using a lot of bandwidth.