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bjlockie
join:2007-12-16
Ontario
Technicolor TC4350
Asus RT-AC56
Grandstream HandyTone 702/704

bjlockie

Member

tip

My Dad always told me a tip was supposed to be on the food not the tax.
If you pay by credit card, the machine calculates the % tip on the total bill (including taxes).
It could be just be the specific Swiss Chalet I was at but I suspect it is widespread.
I noticed this a long time ago.
What do you think a tip should be based on?

shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

shaner

Premium Member

Total bill. Why quibble over a few cents?

J E F F4
Whatta Ya Think About Dat?
Premium Member
join:2004-04-01
Kitchener, ON

J E F F4 to bjlockie

Premium Member

to bjlockie
IT's supposed to be pre-tax....why should we tip the government?

Those machines SHOULD do tip of food/booze total. If service is good, they get 20% of food/drink total..not net total.

Juggernaut
Irreverent or irrelevant?
Premium Member
join:2006-09-05
Kelowna, BC

Juggernaut to bjlockie

Premium Member

to bjlockie
This is why I tip by cash only.
jfmezei
Premium Member
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC

jfmezei

Premium Member

When paying by credit card, aren't you allowed to specify the amount of tip you wish to include ? Or does Nontario impose a fixed tip for all bills ?

In Québec, the practice is 15% before tax.
bjlockie
join:2007-12-16
Ontario
Technicolor TC4350
Asus RT-AC56
Grandstream HandyTone 702/704

bjlockie to J E F F4

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to J E F F4
said by J E F F4:

Those machines SHOULD do tip of food/booze total. If service is good, they get 20% of food/drink total..not net total.

For sure it was after tax.
I'm also pretty sure it is common.
bjlockie

bjlockie to shaner

Member

to shaner
said by shaner:

Total bill. Why quibble over a few centsdollars?

$18 food
$20.34 after taxes

20% tip
$24.41 on total
$21.60 on food
$2.81 more

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

DKS

said by bjlockie:

said by shaner:

Total bill. Why quibble over a few centsdollars?

$18 food
$20.34 after taxes

20% tip
$24.41 on total
$21.60 on food
$2.81 more

And given what servers make, why begrudge them a couple of dollars?
bjlockie
join:2007-12-16
Ontario
Technicolor TC4350
Asus RT-AC56
Grandstream HandyTone 702/704

bjlockie to jfmezei

Member

to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

When paying by credit card, aren't you allowed to specify the amount of tip you wish to include ? Or does Nontario impose a fixed tip for all bills ?

In Québec, the practice is 15% before tax.

There is a machine that processed the cc transaction.
If it offers to add the tip by $amount (you specify) or % (you specify).
My complaint is the % is calculated on the after tax total.

shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

shaner to J E F F4

Premium Member

to J E F F4
said by J E F F4:

IT's supposed to be pre-tax....why should we tip the government?

Funny...call me crazy...but whatever money I choose to designate as a tip generally goes directly to the server.

JC_
Premium Member
join:2010-10-19
Nepean, ON

JC_ to bjlockie

Premium Member

to bjlockie
The card machines usually have an options to tip both $ and %, I always tip by $ and just give whatever the tax is as I'm too lazy calculate any other percentage when I'm paying.
bjlockie
join:2007-12-16
Ontario
Technicolor TC4350
Asus RT-AC56
Grandstream HandyTone 702/704

bjlockie to DKS

Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

said by bjlockie:

said by shaner:

Total bill. Why quibble over a few centsdollars?

$18 food
$20.34 after taxes

20% tip
$24.41 on total
$21.60 on food
$2.81 more

And given what servers make, why begrudge them a couple of dollars?

If it is an issue what servers make then that should be addressed in another way.
This feels underhanded.

CanadianRip
join:2009-07-15
Oakville, ON

1 recommendation

CanadianRip to bjlockie

Member

to bjlockie
If you can't afford to leave a 20% tip you shouldn't be going out to that restaurant for dinner. You exhibit terrible manners if the service was decent and you tipped less than the 20%.

Having said that - I find compared to New York, our restaurant servers pale in comparison. Makes me begrudge doing it at times - but its par for the course in Toronto.
bjlockie
join:2007-12-16
Ontario
Technicolor TC4350
Asus RT-AC56
Grandstream HandyTone 702/704

bjlockie to JC_

Member

to JC_
said by JC_:

The card machines usually have an options to tip both $ and %, I always tip by $ and just give whatever the tax is as I'm too lazy calculate any other percentage when I'm paying.

I have done that.
I think restaurants are shooting themselves in the foot.

Oinktastic
Let them use fibre
join:2005-08-24
Scarborough

Oinktastic to jfmezei

Member

to jfmezei
Quite a few places have a policy whereby they automatically add gratuity on top of the bill if you have at least 4 or 6 people eating together (the number depends on the establishment). I'm not too fond of that, but I guess it sucks for a waiter/waitress to do his/her best to serve a table with a $100+ bill and then get almost nothing if the customers are too stingy.

If you pay by debit or credit, you can often choose whether you want to add a tip by percentage or by a fixed dollar amount (by choosing on the little POS machine they bring). As far as my experience goes, the percentage is added on top of tax, unfortunately.

Link Logger
MVM
join:2001-03-29
Calgary, AB

Link Logger to bjlockie

MVM

to bjlockie
Given I'm in Alberta where we aren't taxed to death I just tip 20% of the final bill for two reasons, first it makes the math easy (with a little rounding usually up) and second to the server the tips are where they make most of their money, so a couple extra bucks I'm sure is appreciated.

It would be interesting to hear what people who used to be servers tip.

Blake

shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

1 recommendation

shaner to DKS

Premium Member

to DKS
said by DKS:

said by bjlockie:

said by shaner:

Total bill. Why quibble over a few centsdollars?

$18 food
$20.34 after taxes

20% tip
$24.41 on total
$21.60 on food
$2.81 more

And given what servers make, why begrudge them a couple of dollars?

Funny, on a $20.34 bill, I'd probably tip $4.66 anyways, so moot point for me. The difference between $22 and $25 spent on lunch or dinner is not enough to cause me grief.
bjlockie
join:2007-12-16
Ontario
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bjlockie to CanadianRip

Member

to CanadianRip
said by CanadianRip:

If you can't afford to leave a 20% tip you shouldn't be going out to that restaurant for dinner. You exhibit terrible manners if the service was decent and you tipped less than the 20%.

Having said that - I find compared to New York, our restaurant servers pale in comparison. Makes me begrudge doing it at times - but its par for the course in Toronto.

20% tip on the food is one thing.
20% tip after tax feels scammy.

Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium Member
join:2005-03-12

2 recommendations

Wolfie00 to bjlockie

Premium Member

to bjlockie
If I understand your awesome math, you went to a cheap-ass restaurant where the after-tax total was $20.34 and you're complaining that the % calculation had you paying a whole 56 cents more in tip. That's terrible. Next time either (a) use the $ amount option instead of the % option, or (b) stay home. Most people just add around 20% to the total, end of story. Frankly if this is the sort of thing you worry about then staying home (option (b)) sounds best for you.

P.S.- although almost everyone I know including myself happily pays the tip on the total, I do know someone who not only looks for the net amount, but also objects to paying a tip on wine or liquor, because those "are overpriced." That person should stay home, too, and maybe will after some waiter "accidentally" dumps an entire cauldron of hot soup on him.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

PX Eliezer704 to bjlockie

Premium Member

to bjlockie
Different country, but my dad always objected to "paying a tip on the tax".

I think it should be on the bill pre-tax.

Here in the US, some states have sales tax on restaurant meals, other states don't. This may differ from sales tax on other things.

If you tip based on the bill including the sales tax, then food servers in the states with the tax make more money than food servers in the states without the tax. That's not consistent.

BTW, I know that food servers in some restaurants work their tails off....

....but the standard for tipping has gone up from 15 percent to 18 percent to 20 percent and higher.

That's a totally separate issue from the price of the meal itself going up.

So not so long ago, 15 percent of a $ 15 meal was $ 2.25 tip.

Now, 20 percent of a $ 22 meal is a $ 4.40 tip.

That's really getting too much. I'll cook more at home, and the food server and the restaurant owner will get nothing.

Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium Member
join:2005-03-12

1 recommendation

Wolfie00 to CanadianRip

Premium Member

to CanadianRip
said by CanadianRip:

If you can't afford to leave a 20% tip you shouldn't be going out to that restaurant for dinner. You exhibit terrible manners if the service was decent and you tipped less than the 20%.

I agree 100%.
said by CanadianRip:

Having said that - I find compared to New York, our restaurant servers pale in comparison. Makes me begrudge doing it at times - but its par for the course in Toronto.

Hmmmm... what I'd say instead is that New York has both the best and the worst -- hey, it's New York! Some of the best restaurants I've ever been to in my life have been in New York -- Lutece in the early 80's comes to mind, when they were at their peak and where my host knew the chef personally and dinner was completely sans menu -- the chef just did his stuff across more courses than I can remember, paired with wines by my host who was quite familiar with the best of the cellar, and was finally finished off with dessert and a bottle of incredible Chateau D'Yquem!

OTOH, some of the rudest, most insolent waiters and some of the most hilarious pretentiousness I've ever seen has been in New York. One of the less memorable episodes was a lunch where the service was so bad that I resolved not to leave any tip at all. In one of those karma things that happen, I was counting out some change on the table and accidentally (I swear!) left a penny behind. The headwaiter was so enraged by this universal sign of disdain that he ran after us and threw the penny at me! It made my day!

But on topic, boys and girls, if you go out to eat, and the service is at all half decent, pay the waiter a tip. On the total.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

PX Eliezer704

Premium Member

Here's some more points that I just saw on a Yahoo board:

The percentage for tipping should be graduated downward. A breakfast waitperson works a lot harder than an upscale restaurant dinner waiter. Why should a breakfast server who refills coffee several times get 20% of a small check? That server deserves more than a waiter in an upscale place who could get a $25 tip for doing less work than a waffle house waitress who will get $1. Tip more in the morning and less at night!!!

The bill total does not really mean more work for the server, it means the patron ordered more expensive entrees. Now how is that more work for the server (if the customer ordered an expensive steak instead of a cheaper cut of meat)? They did not have to bring more platters, plates or anything. Tipping based on bill total is a scam.


Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium Member
join:2005-03-12

Wolfie00

Premium Member

I completely disagree. The price of a meal reflects the value of the total experience, not the number of dishes someone has to haul to the table! The more valuable the experience, the more important the service and the nuances of the food and ambience, and the harder it is to meet the higher expectations. Basing the tip on price reflects those expectations. By your logic, the highest percentage tip should be awarded to the person who flings you your Egg McMuffin in the morning.

Jay_P
join:2005-12-12
Montreal, QC

Jay_P to bjlockie

Member

to bjlockie

Do you guys tip the same percentage to a delivery guy ?

DKS
Damn Kidney Stones

join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON

1 recommendation

DKS to bjlockie

to bjlockie
said by bjlockie:

If it is an issue what servers make then that should be addressed in another way.
This feels underhanded.

No, you are cheap. I tip on the total and 20-25%. My kids are servers. I tip generously. Always.

urbanriot
Premium Member
join:2004-10-18
Canada

urbanriot

Premium Member

said by DKS:

said by bjlockie:

If it is an issue what servers make then that should be addressed in another way.
This feels underhanded.

No, you are cheap. I tip on the total and 20-25%. My kids are servers. I tip generously. Always.

I agree with all of the above, for the most part.

If I have terrible servers, their lack of serving affects their tip. But to ask about the tax difference? Sheesh... If my bill's $103, I'm going to leave a $20. If my bill's $97, I'm going to leave a $20.
PX Eliezer704
Premium Member
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River

PX Eliezer704 to Wolfie00

Premium Member

to Wolfie00
said by Wolfie00:

By your logic, the highest percentage tip should be awarded to the person who flings you your Egg McMuffin in the morning.

Percentage tip, yes, exactly.

Breakfast is valuable too.

By [your] math:

Breakfast special at a diner: $ 7.50 so the waitress at 20 percent gets just $ 1.50.

Dinner at the same diner: $ 18.00 so the waiter at 20 percent gets a tip of $ 3.60 for similar work.

That's inequitable.

I'll leave the morning waitress a tip of $ 3.00 (compared to your $ 1.50) which happens to be a 40 percent tip, but I have no problem with it.
said by Wolfie00:

By your logic, the highest percentage tip should be awarded to the person who flings you your Egg McMuffin in the morning.

By percentage, yes, as their work deserves respect and reimbursement too.

shaner
Premium Member
join:2000-10-04
Calgary, AB

shaner

Premium Member

Then that waitress needs to get out of Denny's and move to Moxie's or something. Servers also know that the value of the menu in the place they choose to work has a direct correlation to the tips they go home with.
IamGimli (banned)
join:2004-02-28
Canada

IamGimli (banned) to bjlockie

Member

to bjlockie
said by bjlockie:

said by shaner:

Total bill. Why quibble over a few centsdollars?

$18 food
$20.34 after taxes

20% tip
$24.41 on total
$21.60 on food
$2.81 more

Wrong.

20% tip on $18: $3.60
20% tip on $20.34: $4.07
Difference: $0.47

No wonder you need the machine to calculate tip for you.

BTW the machine doesn't KNOW about food/beverage and taxes. All that gets entered into it is how much the bill you have to pay adds up to.
Robrr
join:2008-04-19

1 recommendation

Robrr to CanadianRip

Member

to CanadianRip
said by CanadianRip:

If you can't afford to leave a 20% tip you shouldn't be going out to that restaurant for dinner. You exhibit terrible manners if the service was decent and you tipped less than the 20%.

Excuse me! I exhibit terrible manners for only tipping 15% for respectable service in a restaurant. I THINK NOT!

Contrary to what everyone seems to want to believe 20% is not the new 15%, and you can ask any mathematician that.

Furthermore, tips are voluntary! Don't think that because you walked out to my table to take my order that you automatically get a tip. There are standards to be met such as being helpful but not in your face, being pleasant and polite etc.

And for anyone who is even thinking about saying "Well working in the food service industry is hard" or such comments, my wife did 10 years in the industry and she refuses to tip more than what the service was worth.