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BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
reply to jfmezei

Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee?

said by jfmezei:

Rememer that you still have a few places with grandfathered rotary service and they do not pay touch tone fee.

I think this the reason touch tone was never integrated into the base fee.

On the other hand, they could have integrated the $2.75 into the base fee and given a $2.75 rotary service rebate to those few grandmothers still on grandfathered rotary service because they haven't made any changes to their phone lines since the days where touch tone became mandatory for all new lines.

The irony is that the touch tone equipment, being solid state, costs much less to maintain than its fully-mechanical rotary counterpart. Additionally, you can cram many more touch tone switches into a rack than you can fit rotary switches, which leads to decreased real-estate costs for touch tone users, as well. Additionally, most common touch tone switches can also handle rotary dialing.

The fact is that upgrading to touch tone equipment is a one time cost for Bell, followed by reduced maintenance and location costs, which, over a relatively short time, works out cheaper for Bell than the old rotary equipment, yet they want to charge a monthly fee for this. Phone companies in the US (at least, those I've dealt with) charge a fee for rotary service, though in most areas it's just a matter of setting a bit in the switch configuration; there are areas still that are serviced by rotary equipment, I'm not sure whether those areas pay an additional fee for the service. No fee for touch tone service here, because our carriers recognize the benefit to having as many people as possibly using the service; it costs them less, all around, so they make more without adding another fee to the bell. I think even the telcos themselves, down here, realize they've added all the fees they can get away with to our bills.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
said by BronsCon:

The irony is that the touch tone equipment, being solid state, costs much less to maintain than its fully-mechanical rotary counterpart. Additionally, you can cram many more touch tone switches into a rack than you can fit rotary switches, which leads to decreased real-estate costs for touch tone users, as well. Additionally, most common touch tone switches can also handle rotary dialing.

The fact is that upgrading to touch tone equipment is a one time cost for Bell, followed by reduced maintenance and location costs, which, over a relatively short time, works out cheaper for Bell than the old rotary equipment, yet they want to charge a monthly fee for this. Phone companies in the US (at least, those I've dealt with) charge a fee for rotary service, though in most areas it's just a matter of setting a bit in the switch configuration; there are areas still that are serviced by rotary equipment, I'm not sure whether those areas pay an additional fee for the service. No fee for touch tone service here, because our carriers recognize the benefit to having as many people as possibly using the service; it costs them less, all around, so they make more without adding another fee to the bell. I think even the telcos themselves, down here, realize they've added all the fees they can get away with to our bills.

 
So it STILL costs B$ELL less to offer TT than Pulse ?

SHAME !

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to BronsCon
said by BronsCon:

Phone companies in the US (at least, those I've dealt with) charge a fee for rotary service, though in most areas it's just a matter of setting a bit in the switch configuration; there are areas still that are serviced by rotary equipment, I'm not sure whether those areas pay an additional fee for the service. No fee for touch tone service here, because our carriers recognize the benefit to having as many people as possibly using the service; it costs them less, all around, so they make more without adding another fee to the bell. I think even the telcos themselves, down here, realize they've added all the fees they can get away with to our bills.

In Hawaii, Touch Tone is still billed separately at, I believe, a $3.50 monthly fee. Some folks accidentally got it switched on years ago and, because they never called Hawaiian Telcom's attention to it having been done have been getting it free all these years, but most pay that fee. My corded landline speaker phone has a switch to turn on or off Touch Tone. I sometimes accidentally turn it off when I am trying to turn off the ringer instead and then I use the phone to call someone and the "tones" sound weird but the call goes through.

As for other choices, there is the problem of 911 availability with other providers. It is very unwise to rely only on a cell phone or Time Warner Cable phone service which has NO backup power if the electricity goes off (which is frequent here) and the same with cell phones. 911 availability is why I keep my landline.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson


BronsCon

join:2003-10-24
Walnut Creek, CA
Reviews:
·SONIC.NET
By all rights, Hawaii is another country, which the US invaded years ago and incorporated as a state. Much of the regulation we see in the continental 48 doesn't make its way over there, or to Alaska, for that matter. You phone company is ripping you off.

PX Eliezer7
Premium
join:2008-08-09
Hutt River
kudos:13
Reviews:
·callwithus
·voip.ms
There was a class-action lawsuit against Hawaii Telephone for the touch-tone fee.

Plaintiffs lost because the court found that because the fee was a publicly-known part of the state-approved rates (tariffs), it was not subject to challenge.

»caselaw.findlaw.com/hi-supreme-c···287.html

Or as OJ's lawyer might have said:

"If the charge is admitted, it must be remitted".

----------------------------------

As a practical matter, most US POTS providers long ago stopped charging extra for Touch Tone.

That's because their systems have been digital for decades. Such an extra charge is absurd.


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
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said by PX Eliezer7:

....Such an extra charge is absurd.

 
As we all keep lamenting up here.

jfmezei
Premium
join:2007-01-03
Pointe-Claire, QC
kudos:23
reply to PX Eliezer7
Bell Canada's continued charging for Touch Tone, long distance access fee and whatever other fees is indicative of a "what the market will bear" mentality.

"what the market will bear" signifiies lack of sufficient competition.

The fact that Videotron is eating Bell alive is not indicative of competition. It is indicative that people are so fed up with being milked that they will switch to anyone else who charges a bit less even if "charges a bit less" is still milking them dry.

And the fact that Bell is happy to continue to milk customers with those uncompetitive fees means that they are not in business to compete, they are in business to milk customers stupid enough to continue to pay horrendous and unjustified fees for just about everything.

What is sad is that Bell's recipe has so far worked with Bell more profitable milking a few customers compared to being competitive and gaining more customers.

However, I feel that Bell may have reached the limit where it is now losing more customers than its recipe planned for and it may be forced to start to compete eventually.

Addendum: I should have a "DSLR reading fee" of $1.25 per serious post I make. Ok, I wouldn't make that much money but still


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
Bell just like to go towards the left side of their demand curve until it hits the asymptote at the Y axis. (i.e. # of customers is as low as it can be for the non-math crowd). Not sure if they would find maximum profit over there by ignoring the supply curve.

>"what the market will bear"
what if market turns into bear?


Davesnothere
No-BHELL-ity DOES have its Advantages
Premium
join:2009-06-15
START Today!
kudos:7
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

....Addendum: I should have a "DSLR reading fee" of $1.25 per serious post I make. Ok, I wouldn't make that much money but still

 
OK, so help me out here.

Which category of post was that last one ?

Do we owe you, or is it the reverse ?


Ott_Cable

@teksavvy.com
Sound like someone needs a paypal Red Bull tip jar...

Mele20
Premium
join:2001-06-05
Hilo, HI
kudos:5
reply to PX Eliezer7
The real reason that the touch tone fee has never been removed is because Verizon wanted massive increases in the basic monthly phone charge and the PUC denied that on more than one occasion. The fact that Verizon proposed to remove the touch tone fee was buried in the massive rate increase asked for and the rate increase would have more than wiped out any gain the customer got for not having to pay a separate touch tone fee. Once Verizon decided to stop abusing Hawaii and sell off the phone service here there has been considerable struggle by HawaiianTel and I think that is why the fee still stands today.

That court ruling was absurd. Who is going to call up the phone company and say "My rotary dial phone died and I bought a touch tone one because I couldn't find any rotary ones so please start charging me for touch tone". The sad thing is that the only folks paying this fee are those who don't realize that most, if not everyone, has touch tone for years now whether ordered as a separate service or not. Besides, I doubt my phone is unique in that, while it is not a rotary dial phone but has touch buttons, I can switch from touch to pulse anytime I want and I could do that back at the time of the court ruling so all that crap in the court's decision regarding rotary dial phones vs touch tone phones shows abysmal lack of knowledge. The ruling was absurd, the tariff for this is absurd and the PUC needs to address it but won't because HawaiianTel struggles to keep its head above the water. At least the price now for Touch Tone is lower at $1.65 additional (plus the GET) monthly.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to jfmezei
said by jfmezei:

What is sad is that Bell's recipe has so far worked with Bell more profitable milking a few customers compared to being competitive and gaining more customers.

Not much of a surprise there. Someone who has a fully-loaded phone line at ~$50/month is a lot more profitable than someone with a basic phone line at $22/month since Bell's costs will be nearly identical for both. Each subscriber on a "deluxe" line generates as much profit as a handful of "lite" subscribers.

Hook the big fish, let the small ones go.


rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
reply to PX Eliezer7
not necessarily. Making a switch digital does not always mean tone detection comes "for free." I remember working not all that long ago on a Lucent/Avaya switch which had specific hardware called a "tone receiver" which had to be present in order for TT to be processed. I'm not sure, it could have been kind of old, but I definitely remember a separate TDM board being for decoding digits. It showed up in the traces I was doing about allocating the resource for the call.

Similarly, a phone company might justify additional charges for needing to get that hardware.

But I could agree, it's so commonplace these days that it's probably integrated into the design rather than being a separate chunk of hardware.
--
English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.

Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck!


moneystream

@videotron.ca
said by rchandra:

Similarly, a phone company might justify additional charges for needing to get that hardware.

I think it has already been paid off a long time ago considering the vast majority of Canadians have been paying this for about 2 decades, heh.

ihatebell21

join:2012-04-04
said by moneystream :

said by rchandra:

Similarly, a phone company might justify additional charges for needing to get that hardware.

I think it has already been paid off a long time ago considering the vast majority of Canadians have been paying this for about 2 3 decades, heh eh?.

Fixed it for you.