Topic 'Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee?' in forum 'Canadian Broadband' - dslreports.com http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27075791 en Tue, 18 Jun 2013 23:49:13 EDT Tue, 18 Jun 2013 23:49:13 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27105397 said by MaynardKrebs:

Look at your phone bill - does paying nearly 15% of your monthly bill for touch-tone seem right?

Ain't got one, I have cell service with all the bells and whistles for less then the cost of an equivalent LandLine (how perverse is that)
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No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake....... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27105397 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:32:34 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27105369
I'm pretty sure Bell would love that....one less noticeable thing for customers to bitch about.

-----------------

Did you know that Bell first offered touch-tone service in Montreal & Toronto on June 15, 1964 --- that's right...over 45 years ago, and that they've been collecting fees for it almost that long.

Nortel DMS-10 (1977) and Nortel DMS-100 (1979) switches offered touch-tone service right out of the box. Bell was almost exclusively a Nortel customer for switches. Even Mitel offered touch-tone in their first switch in 1979.

I think the rationale permitting Bell to charge an extra fee for touch tone has long since 'amortized'.

Look at your phone bill - does paying nearly 15% of your monthly bill for touch-tone seem right?

----

see these articles for some history

»about.telus.com/community/englis···_history

www.itu.int/newsarchive/wtsa2000/english/media/timeline.pdf

»www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/publications/···ew05.htm
98. In 1999 the Commission conducted a review of Telephone Service to High-Cost Serving Areas.51 In that proceeding it determined that in 1999, over 99% of access lines in Canada provided basic individual line service. It found that 97% were connected to a digital switch that provided touch tone service ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27105369 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:20:52 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27105330
Ellen Roseman has written a column today that it's time to scrap the TT fee.

Apparently it's a "voluntary" fee tacked on by Bell not the CRTC.

»www.moneyville.ca/article/115937···tone-fee
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No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake....... ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27105330 Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:04:34 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27088731 said by moneystream :

said by rchandra:

Similarly, a phone company might justify additional charges for needing to get that hardware.

I think it has already been paid off a long time ago considering the vast majority of Canadians have been paying this for about 2 3 decades, heh eh?.

Fixed it for you.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27088731 Thu, 05 Apr 2012 19:12:18 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27087603 said by rchandra:

Similarly, a phone company might justify additional charges for needing to get that hardware.

I think it has already been paid off a long time ago considering the vast majority of Canadians have been paying this for about 2 decades, heh.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27087603 Thu, 05 Apr 2012 14:34:40 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27087366
Similarly, a phone company might justify additional charges for needing to get that hardware.

But I could agree, it's so commonplace these days that it's probably integrated into the design rather than being a separate chunk of hardware.
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English is a difficult enough language to interpret correctly when its rules are followed, let alone when a writer chooses not to follow those rules.

Jeopardy! replies and randomcaps REALLY suck!]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27087366 Thu, 05 Apr 2012 13:33:06 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27084399
You can pulse dial all you want, but they'll charge touch tone fees.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27084399 Wed, 04 Apr 2012 17:00:24 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27084383
If that POTS connections means so much to you, but you don't want to pay the TT fee, just switch to a phone that can dial pulse.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27084383 Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:56:08 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27083264
»www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2012/busted/]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27083264 Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:31:38 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27078987 said by jfmezei:

What is sad is that Bell's recipe has so far worked with Bell more profitable milking a few customers compared to being competitive and gaining more customers.

Not much of a surprise there. Someone who has a fully-loaded phone line at ~$50/month is a lot more profitable than someone with a basic phone line at $22/month since Bell's costs will be nearly identical for both. Each subscriber on a "deluxe" line generates as much profit as a handful of "lite" subscribers.

Hook the big fish, let the small ones go.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27078987 Tue, 03 Apr 2012 12:24:02 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27078004
I hope they don't force us someday to start paying for touch tone service. Rotary dialing works just fine thanks. Our old Northern Telecom dial phones are built stronger than any phone currently made. We also have a switchable phone that makes touch tone sounds after you press *. No problem using that with any IVR system (voicemail, etc.).

We have basic phone service with no features at all. The touch tone fee would represent an increase of about 13%. No thanks.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27078004 Tue, 03 Apr 2012 06:18:46 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077901
That court ruling was absurd. Who is going to call up the phone company and say "My rotary dial phone died and I bought a touch tone one because I couldn't find any rotary ones so please start charging me for touch tone". The sad thing is that the only folks paying this fee are those who don't realize that most, if not everyone, has touch tone for years now whether ordered as a separate service or not. Besides, I doubt my phone is unique in that, while it is not a rotary dial phone but has touch buttons, I can switch from touch to pulse anytime I want and I could do that back at the time of the court ruling so all that crap in the court's decision regarding rotary dial phones vs touch tone phones shows abysmal lack of knowledge. The ruling was absurd, the tariff for this is absurd and the PUC needs to address it but won't because HawaiianTel struggles to keep its head above the water. At least the price now for Touch Tone is lower at $1.65 additional (plus the GET) monthly.
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When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077901 Tue, 03 Apr 2012 02:55:58 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077803 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077803 Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:57:22 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077754 said by jfmezei:

....Addendum: I should have a "DSLR reading fee" of $1.25 per serious post I make. Ok, I wouldn't make that much money but still :-)

 
OK, so help me out here.

Which category of post was that last one ?

Do we owe you, or is it the reverse ? ;) ;) ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077754 Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:24:05 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077744
>"what the market will bear"
what if market turns into bear?]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077744 Tue, 03 Apr 2012 00:14:50 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077684
"what the market will bear" signifiies lack of sufficient competition.

The fact that Videotron is eating Bell alive is not indicative of competition. It is indicative that people are so fed up with being milked that they will switch to anyone else who charges a bit less even if "charges a bit less" is still milking them dry.

And the fact that Bell is happy to continue to milk customers with those uncompetitive fees means that they are not in business to compete, they are in business to milk customers stupid enough to continue to pay horrendous and unjustified fees for just about everything.

What is sad is that Bell's recipe has so far worked with Bell more profitable milking a few customers compared to being competitive and gaining more customers.

However, I feel that Bell may have reached the limit where it is now losing more customers than its recipe planned for and it may be forced to start to compete eventually.

Addendum: I should have a "DSLR reading fee" of $1.25 per serious post I make. Ok, I wouldn't make that much money but still :-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077684 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:49:00 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077678 said by PX Eliezer:

....Such an extra charge is absurd.

 
As we all keep lamenting up here. :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077678 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:46:17 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077663
Plaintiffs lost because the court found that because the fee was a publicly-known part of the state-approved rates (tariffs), it was not subject to challenge.

»caselaw.findlaw.com/hi-supreme-c···287.html

Or as OJ's lawyer might have said:

"If the charge is admitted, it must be remitted".

----------------------------------

As a practical matter, most US POTS providers long ago stopped charging extra for Touch Tone.

That's because their systems have been digital for decades. Such an extra charge is absurd. ]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077663 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:39:46 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077585 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077585 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:08:50 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077577 But whatever it was, it originally cost them extra to accomplish the blocking

But that "filtering" would disappear after the dialing, so there will need to be a bypass that knows when the connection is done. Very likely the dialing function is simply disabled, but all the tones can pass. That is a lot easier, cleaner to implement.

May be they need to pay a software licensing option to do that. Or they simply don't disable that anymore. 10 digit dialing on pulse dial at 10 pulse per second with enough pauses between digits would mean it may be on average 6-7 seconds just for dialing on a keypad. On rotary phone (if they still have that) would be far worse.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077577 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 23:07:23 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077547 said by Davesnothere:

You vindictive SOB !

What did Bell ever do to YOU ?! ;) ;) ;)

It didn't involve lube........... though it should have :(]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077547 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:58:45 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077524 said by MaynardKrebs:

I've used voip for a few years.

I just want to stick it to Bell.

 
You vindictive SOB !

What did Bell ever do to YOU ?! ;) ;) ;)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077524 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:53:39 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077522 said by Ott_Cable :

A physical filter would be very difficult (and expensive). Touch tone is within voice band, so the multiple notch filters also have to be extremely narrow (i.e. high Q) filters. More likely, they block the touch tone functionality on the linecard.

 
That may have been an oversimplification, though it was explained to me that way back then.

But whatever it was, it originally cost them extra to accomplish the blocking (and may still today, some have posted here), which is a major point against charging more for TT than for Pulse.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077522 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:52:01 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077503 said by PX Eliezer:

said by MaynardKrebs:

What's the filing process to ask the CRTC to eliminate the $2.80 monthly charge for touch-tone service?

As others have said, get VoIP such as your fine Canadian companies:

I've used voip for a few years.
I just want to stick it to Bell.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077503 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:46:20 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077402 the earliest method was a physical filter at the CO to make the CO not 'Hear' the TT if you tried to dial that way.

A physical filter would be very difficult (and expensive). Touch tone is within voice band, so the multiple notch filters also have to be extremely narrow (i.e. high Q) filters. More likely, they block the touch tone functionality on the linecard.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077402 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 22:13:03 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077339 said by brad:

Which is a failure for VoIP.

It is a success as far as not having to pay touch-tone fee for the line you use for everyday calls goes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077339 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:52:41 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077333 said by BronsCon:

Phone companies in the US (at least, those I've dealt with) charge a fee for rotary service, though in most areas it's just a matter of setting a bit in the switch configuration; there are areas still that are serviced by rotary equipment, I'm not sure whether those areas pay an additional fee for the service. No fee for touch tone service here, because our carriers recognize the benefit to having as many people as possibly using the service; it costs them less, all around, so they make more without adding another fee to the bell. I think even the telcos themselves, down here, realize they've added all the fees they can get away with to our bills.

In Hawaii, Touch Tone is still billed separately at, I believe, a $3.50 monthly fee. Some folks accidentally got it switched on years ago and, because they never called Hawaiian Telcom's attention to it having been done have been getting it free all these years, but most pay that fee. My corded landline speaker phone has a switch to turn on or off Touch Tone. I sometimes accidentally turn it off when I am trying to turn off the ringer instead and then I use the phone to call someone and the "tones" sound weird but the call goes through.

As for other choices, there is the problem of 911 availability with other providers. It is very unwise to rely only on a cell phone or Time Warner Cable phone service which has NO backup power if the electricity goes off (which is frequent here) and the same with cell phones. 911 availability is why I keep my landline.
--
When governments fear people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Thomas Jefferson]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077333 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:52:00 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077321 said by jfmezei:

....There are even rumours that Bell spent money to block touch tone dialing on those grand fathered lines.

 
They absolutely DID, and the earliest method was a physical filter at the CO to make the CO not 'Hear' the TT if you tried to dial that way.

However, as soon as the connection was established using pulse, you could switch your phone to 'Tone' and access various services like telephone banking, etc.

My father did this until 2007, when he moved to a retirement home and got a new number, as the home was in a different community, and then had to take and pay for TT from B$ELL.

BTW, almost all calling features can be used without TT, yet B$ELL periodically promotes a bald-faced lie to the contrary, to try to coerce the remaining grandfathered pulse-peeps to give up pulse when they have not moved (the main criteria for ending grandfathering).]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077321 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:49:08 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077279 said by InvalidError:

Most people who have VoIP for everyday calling also have cellphone as a backup when something goes wrong, so broadband "good enough" to make VoIP work when everything is working normally is good enough.

As far as emergency-worthiness "reliability" goes, I bet most people would reach for their cellphones before anything else anyhow since they are usually either worn on self or otherwise kept closer than traditional phones.

Which is a failure for VoIP.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077279 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:35:23 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077265 said by brad:

Well "good enough" is not reliable.

Most people who have VoIP for everyday calling also have cellphone as a backup when something goes wrong, so broadband "good enough" to make VoIP work when everything is working normally is good enough.

As far as emergency-worthiness "reliability" goes, I bet most people would reach for their cellphones before anything else anyhow since they are usually either worn on self or otherwise kept closer than traditional phones.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077265 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:32:21 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077259 said by Ott_Cable :

So far other than a few of my ISP going out business/change hands, internet connectivity for last 10+ years has not been that bad yet.

You're very lucky, but that's not typical.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077259 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:30:34 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077228 when compared to the reliability of POTS.

I remember my phone line was down for more than 48 hours and had to use pay phone to call them to fix it for a 2nd time in my school days.

So far other than a few of my ISP going out business/change hands, internet connectivity for last 10+ years has not been that bad yet.

In my case, I have a PAYGO phone, elevator emergency phone line, rental office, pay phone across the street etc as backups.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077228 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:23:25 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077220 said by InvalidError:

Most ISPs and major incumbents are good enough in general

Well "good enough" is not reliable.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077220 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:21:15 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077196 said by brad:

Key being wherever you can get reliable IP connectivity... not a whole lot of ISPs that come even close to meeting that requirement when compared to the reliability of POTS.

Most ISPs and major incumbents are good enough in general, where things get dicey is when Xplorenet or similar are the only options in the area.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077196 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:15:05 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077195 What's the filing process to ask the CRTC to eliminate the $2.80 monthly charge for touch-tone service?

I pay less than $2.80 on my VoIP line each month.

The uncertainty of UBB forced me to look at ways of reducing my telecom bill. My conclusion was that the savings of going away from DSL landline cost to VoIP + Cable internet would be enough to offset whatever coming out.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077195 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:14:57 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077188 said by brad:

Key being wherever you can get reliable IP connectivity... not a whole lot of ISPs that come even close to meeting that requirement when compared to the reliability of POTS.

This is an excellent point, and if I were Canadian what I would [really] be screaming at would be the poor quality of the ISP's overall.

The US lags behind many other countries in this, but this is one area in which Canada is even more behind.

Having said that, in the long run the Canadian ISP's will be getting better, while POTS will be getting worse.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077188 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:12:47 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077171 said by InvalidError:

VoIP is a contender wherever you can get reliable IP connectivity at more than 300kbps and many rural areas can also have cable phone and cellular.

Key being wherever you can get reliable IP connectivity... not a whole lot of ISPs that come even close to meeting that requirement when compared to the reliability of POTS.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077171 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:06:54 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077166 said by BronsCon:

The irony is that the touch tone equipment, being solid state, costs much less to maintain than its fully-mechanical rotary counterpart. Additionally, you can cram many more touch tone switches into a rack than you can fit rotary switches, which leads to decreased real-estate costs for touch tone users, as well. Additionally, most common touch tone switches can also handle rotary dialing.

The fact is that upgrading to touch tone equipment is a one time cost for Bell, followed by reduced maintenance and location costs, which, over a relatively short time, works out cheaper for Bell than the old rotary equipment, yet they want to charge a monthly fee for this. Phone companies in the US (at least, those I've dealt with) charge a fee for rotary service, though in most areas it's just a matter of setting a bit in the switch configuration; there are areas still that are serviced by rotary equipment, I'm not sure whether those areas pay an additional fee for the service. No fee for touch tone service here, because our carriers recognize the benefit to having as many people as possibly using the service; it costs them less, all around, so they make more without adding another fee to the bell. I think even the telcos themselves, down here, realize they've added all the fees they can get away with to our bills.

 
So it STILL costs B$ELL less to offer TT than Pulse ?

SHAME ! :mad:]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077166 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:06:19 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077158 said by jfmezei:

Rememer that you still have a few places with grandfathered rotary service and they do not pay touch tone fee.

I think this the reason touch tone was never integrated into the base fee.

On the other hand, they could have integrated the $2.75 into the base fee and given a $2.75 rotary service rebate to those few grandmothers still on grandfathered rotary service because they haven't made any changes to their phone lines since the days where touch tone became mandatory for all new lines.

 
The CRTC approval of which was just one slide of many on the slippery slope for B$ELL to charge everyone more for something which originally cost less to administrate.

--

We have only 2 things about which to worry :
(1) That things may never get back to normal
(2) That they already HAVE !
]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077158 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:04:20 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077146 said by MaynardKrebs:

What's the filing process to ask the CRTC to eliminate the $2.80 monthly charge for touch-tone service?

As others have said, get VoIP such as your fine Canadian companies:

For the DIY:
»voip.ms/

For full-service:
»www.acrovoice.ca/content/residential_service

Seriously, POTS is dying. Not as fast in Canada as the US, but POTS is dying. These are its death throes.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077146 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 21:01:35 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077131 said by jfmezei:

Rememer that you still have a few places with grandfathered rotary service and they do not pay touch tone fee.

My dad refused to pay for touch-tone service, and one day it just worked. It was probably easier to convert everyone over than piecemeal each sub.
--
--Standard disclaimers apply.--
google this "(sqrt(cos(x))*cos(200*x)+sqrt(abs(x))-0.7)*(4-x*x)^0.01, sqrt(9-x^2), -sqrt(9-x^2)"]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077131 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:57:59 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077113 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27077113 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:51:28 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076954 said by jfmezei:

Not to worry, I am sure my buddy Mirko is working hard to convince CRTC to allow Bell to charge the touch tone fee on dry lines :-)

They will call this a dial tone fee

For the original OP, to be honest it far simpler to just go with VOIP services. It's cheaper and you have more services included.
--
Connection: ElectronicBox 60mbps / 3mbps
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]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076954 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 20:12:57 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076744 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076744 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:27:30 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076741 --
MNSi Internet - »www.mnsi.net]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076741 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:26:55 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076663 said by InvalidError:

VoIP is a contender wherever you can get reliable IP connectivity

Not to worry, I am sure my buddy Mirko is working hard to convince CRTC to allow Bell to charge the touch tone fee on dry lines :-)]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076663 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:07:23 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076652 said by CR123:

And I don't know about out in Ontario, but here, the non-forborne (regulated) areas tend to be more rural ones with no CLEC competition, so changing to another provider isn't possible.

VoIP is a contender wherever you can get reliable IP connectivity at more than 300kbps and many rural areas can also have cable phone and cellular.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076652 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:04:30 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076634 with the original decision by the CRTC to allow the TTSF to be implemented over 40 years ago to offset costs of equipment upgrades at the time.

I think it is well overdue to strike down this antiquated CRTC decision. Multi-millions (if not billions) have been collected under the fee since its inception and it should not be allowed to be used for a purpose other than what it was originally intended for.]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076634 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 19:01:34 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076603 said by InvalidError:

incumbents who charge it will demand an adjustment to the phone service fee to offset most of it.

How many incumbents charge the touch-tone fee besides Bell? I know TELUS doesn't out west.

And I don't know about out in Ontario, but here, the non-forborne (regulated) areas tend to be more rural ones with no CLEC competition, so changing to another provider isn't possible.
--
- The content of this post is my opinion, and does not reflect the opinions of my employer. -]]> http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076603 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 18:56:08 EDT Re: How would I request the elimination of the touch-tone fee? http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076506 http://www.dslreports.com/forum/Re-How-would-I-request-the-elimination-of-the-touchtone-fee-27076506 Mon, 02 Apr 2012 18:32:46 EDT