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PrivacyExprt

join:2010-09-29
Longwood, FL

2 recommendations

Privacy, as we have known it, will be extinct in the USA.

»www.wnd.com/2012/04/obamas-nsa-c···bout-us/
And dig what Church said in 1975, that the NSA’s “capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter.”

Even though this technology was in its infancy compared to its ever-increasing range and depth today, Church had already found out enough to warn:

“There would be no place to hide … There would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know.”


norwegian
Premium
join:2005-02-15
Outback
Without reading the article completely, with half of the people being applied in a government role after a solid private sector or left arm or right for that matter type role, you have have to question where the big picture is heading.

How many movies have portrayed what is going to happen 10 or 20 yrs later for instance? We have been heading in this direction for some time....it has been documented for 30 yrs of my life in places I wasn't looking for it. One World? Too late, we have been kept busy in our own little lives to see it coming or should I say - arrive!

I am/was thinking about starting a general topic on privacy - it seems the flavor of the month; but thought it worth my piece here instead, excuse me if I'm off track in my 'view' of it all.
I just hope it is held onto a lot longer though, and articles like this suggest it was be more than just a general topic shortly - jail/gaol for talking will be on the very next train ride. Or publicly disgraced before the sudden drop off the cliff; the final suicide, to stop you muttering such vulgar words in public, on pirate internet/radio bands or visually which will be even harder to get access to because the RIAA has the control/commercial license and is behind locked doors.
--
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke



Blackbird
Built for Speed
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join:2005-01-14
Fort Wayne, IN
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Frontier Communi..

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reply to PrivacyExprt
When a person's privacy is gone, his freedom is gone. Once most or all that people say and do daily is recorded in a data bank, it only lacks an algorithm for somebody to interrogate the database to seek whatever correlation they wish. And such algorithms have long existed, from the dawn of the computer era. So at that point, everything reduces to "definition": the definition of what are legitimate "target" characteristics to seed the correlation/extraction/analysis process. And those "definitions" are most certainly subject to the whim of the culture d'jour or the prejudices of those operating the system, and it's where most citizens will ultimately be hit.

The worst extremes of taking spoken or written things out of context or of 'political correctness' that are visible in scattered news incidents today will be folded into this system - but it will all be invisible (it's a "black" system, remember?) until it suddenly appears as individuals are dragged from their homes to face a bewildering array of accusations and purported, disconnected "data" points tracing back umpteen years, "backing up" the accusations.

Still worse, it's one thing to have privacy violated for something you actually meant, but it's another thing entirely when what is alleged amounts to a fabrication made by reassembling separate data points taken out of context. Case in point: what NBC did with the George Zimmerman 911 tape. Completely setting aside one's views of what did or did not happen in Sanford that night, what is striking about NBC's actions is how radically impacting a simple deletion of two sentences from the tape track makes upon what appears to be said: NBC issues apology on Zimmerman tape screw-up.

There is a technical aspect to this entire data collection/analysis process that has not even been considered yet by most observers. True, random, white noise contains elements of all "colors" of signals, and if one simply looks therein for simple signals, they'll always be found. Which means, in layman's terms, if you lay out enough truly random data points on a chart, you can construct any picture you want by simply connecting dots. The starry night sky is a perfect example - every culture finds various "images" in the star fields, though most cultures differ in what they "see" amongst the same stars. The key point is that the images aren't really there - they're mere perceptual constructs made from the random star field.

When this principle is applied to the data collection/analysis scenario, the same reality exists. Given enough data, almost any pattern one seeks can be made to emerge. Looking at the night sky seeking the image of a horse, you'll eventually find something that looks just like one - to you... but that doesn't mean it's really there. In his epic books on the Gulag Archipelago, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn makes the point that many, perhaps most, citizens sent to the Soviet slave camps were sent there for real things said, done, or possessed - but that were taken utterly out of context because of the political whims and fears of the then-current power structure. And they had nothing even approaching the scope of data collection systems possessed (or soon to be possessed) today.

To argue that a citizen will have judicial remedy when falsely accused by such a system is a hollow claim. By then, ones fortune, reputation, and perhaps family will have been devastated. More to the point, when "impersonal machine definitions" are used to assemble the data from amongst the millions of unrelated things that a person has actually said or done, how ever will one even begin to "prove one's innocence"?

Again and again, we are told this kind of system is needed to combat "the enemy". Likewise, again and again, we are told it will never be used against American citizens. The first statement may or may not contain truth. The second is an outright lie. Such a system is precisely like the "Ring of Power"... once in their possession, it will corrupt the thinking processes and judgment of any leader or political party that comes to office. It's very late in the game, but citizens need to demand now that their Congress critters both block further implementation/funding for this and apply some very solid Constitutional thinking and regulation for how to genuinely protect the rights of the citizenry from whatever system/tools might perhaps need to be created.
--
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God!" -- P.Henry, 1775


caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
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join:2005-01-16
WA, USA
kudos:4

3 recommendations

I've wondered as well why there are so many TV shows now in recent years about "friendly" surveillance? Could it be a subtle way to accustom, indoctrinate and assimilate a change of the ways to a generation? After all, the TV sees more of a child than some parents are doing these days. A great teaching tool indeed.

Shows like NCIS, 24, Person of Interest and even the admittedly great gem of AMC's Rubicon. They all add up to making it seem to be routine and good for us. Especially in the wake of the horrors of 9-11, we're shown that more surveillance gets the bad guys...so it MUST be good?

Pic is related...



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Dude111
An Awesome Dude
Premium
join:2003-08-04
USA
kudos:13
reply to Blackbird

 

quote:
When a person's privacy is gone, his freedom is gone.
Indeed it is..........

I watched a law and order show last night where the guy put an RFID chip in his wife to spy on her (She was cheating on the guy so in his mind it was justified) and the lady died (I dont remember how) and the idiot said "IN 10 YEARS EVERYONE WILL HAVE A CHIP IN THEM" and i said "OH YEAH??" (I said some choice words (AH MAN!!))

No one should willingly let themselves be chipped!

Zyrtec

join:2011-05-05
Annapolis Junction, MD

5 recommendations

reply to PrivacyExprt

Re: Privacy, as we have known it, will be extinct in the USA.

When these kind of things make it to the news outlets, some people will always bring up the famous “If you’ve got nothing to hide” argument.

I've never found that argument to be anything more than a cheap way to push the burden of proof onto the uncaused.

"If you've got nothing to hide" won't save you when any number of government agencies are free to sift through everything until they can extrapolate an actionable mountain out of your previously private molehills.

There are people in prison who had nothing to hide and did nothing wrong. The level of effort put into fitting them for the crime vastly outweighs the search for evidence to the contrary. Give anyone enough data and they can start cobbling together correlation with a minimum of effort.

The other key is another hackneyed phrase: "Give 'em an inch and they'll take a mile." The article makes the point that privacy isn't handed over in one big, all-encompassing chunk. It's whittled away until there's nothing left. Legislative creep thanks to the unwinnable Wars against Terror and Drugs has progressively opened every US citizen to a variety of "ongoing" investigations that won't end until someone can find something to use against you.

This doesn't even touch on the abuse of information that's already freely available to government agencies. Multiple cases of government employees accessing records just because they have the access have been reported. Here's one:

»www.aclum.org/news_5.6.09

There's no reason for a government employee to be searching a celebrity's records other than morbid curiosity. You sit someone in front of a wide array of private information long enough and bad things will happen. Humans are like that. And to expect that just handing over an incredible amount of information to anyone, much less a government agency (most of whom run unchecked or with a bare minimum of oversight), and expecting it only to be used "correctly" is sheer ignorance.

Add to this the fact that the government wants this to be a one-way street and it's even more disturbing. They want every citizen to be an open book, but they throw around "state secrets" and "interest of national security" whenever anyone asks for a peek behind their curtains. That will also never change. This is also standard human behavior, especially with those who will always have the law on their side. Always. Because if the law becomes inconvenient, it gets changed or re-interpreted.

Of all the differences between the "haves" and "have-nots," this is the gap that increases the most year after year. Why the hell do we, as taxpayers and citizens, need to jump through regulatory hoops (like FOIA requests) just to get a half-assed and mostly redacted answer from our government. It's our government and yet, it seems to find the most fulfillment in steadily making life worse for its constituents.

They also thrive on the fact that there is very little rollback on legislation. Once it's on the books, it never comes off. It only gets added to, tacked onto unrelated bills or shoved through during midnight sessions. It's gone well past erosion. (A term that cheapens what's actually happening, suggesting that it's "natural". In other words, unstoppable. You can't change "nature.") At this point, it's strip-mining.

Yeah. "Nothing to hide." Not even my naked contempt for every single politician and law enforcement official that uses any shitty excuse to extend their power and marginalize their citizens into a loose confederation of "suspects."


caffeinator
Coming soon to a cup near you..
Premium
join:2005-01-16
WA, USA
kudos:4

4 recommendations

reply to Dude111

Re:  

said by Dude111:


No one should willingly let themselves be chipped!

Irony then, isn't it that after all of the past furor over the idea of being implanted with chips that we willingly carry around every manner of tracking anyone could want.

We do it for them in our GPS-enabled, social media gobbling, cookie enabled, carrier backdoored and tracked by the nearest tower Cellular phones.

Oh, and we pay them to do it. Now that is a perfect snow job.
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My 9/11 Tribute..online since 9/14/01
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lorennerol
Premium
join:2003-10-29
Seattle, WA
reply to Dude111
said by Dude111:

No one should willingly let themselves be chipped!

Are you carrying a cell phone with an integrated GPS? If so, you're chipped.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:3

1 recommendation

reply to PrivacyExprt

Re: Privacy, as we have known it, will be extinct in the USA.

I would change the post title to

Privacy, as we have known it, will be is extinct in the USA.

I'm sure some will see that as pessimistic but unless you can figure out how to "put the Genie back in the bottle", and I can't see a realistic way, we have no privacy left (unless you want to use "extreme" measures).
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
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Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel

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reply to caffeinator

Re:  

said by caffeinator:

We do it for them in our GPS-enabled, social media gobbling, cookie enabled, carrier backdoored and tracked by the nearest tower Cellular phones.

Thus why when I'm not on-call, the phone stays at the office, and I have no other cellphone.

Not that I have anything to hide, but just the thought of someone being able to pinpoint my location at any time, is disgusting. And who's to say they don't have a backdoor where they can remotely enable a phone's microphone and camera?


salzan
Experienced Optimist
Premium
join:2004-01-08
WA State

1 recommendation

reply to StuartMW

Re: Privacy, as we have known it, will be extinct in the USA.

said by StuartMW:

I would change the post title to

Privacy, as we have known it, will be is extinct in the USA.

I'm sure some will see that as pessimistic but unless you can figure out how to "put the Genie back in the bottle", and I can't see a realistic way, we have no privacy left (unless you want to use "extreme" measures).

Sadly, I have to agree with you. These all to common threads in this forum are, for the most part, preaching to the choir. The people this message really needs to reach are the general public but even if it does, most are too busy with day to day life to really care, much less do anything about it.

Many of us have seen this coming for a long time. Yet, even here, many embrace the devices and policies that are making privacy obsolete. As an example,not that long ago reports of apps that phoned home would light this forum up. Now? Not so much. The convenience of auto updates far outweighs any possible associated risk. I'm not saying it is or isn't a risk, only pointing out how attitudes change when convenience becomes a deciding factor.

PrivacyExprt

join:2010-09-29
Longwood, FL

2 recommendations

reply to caffeinator
said by caffeinator:

I've wondered as well why there are so many TV shows now in recent years about "friendly" surveillance? Could it be a subtle way to accustom, indoctrinate and assimilate a change of the ways to a generation?

Of course it is, and this is exactly what they are doing. People become sort of 'blind' to something when they are indoctrinated with it. Only when they step out of the picture, view it from a distance, then step back in do they realize what is happening. Subliminals play a major part in all of this, but they've become so overt that they can just blast it in front of us everyday. I started noticing childrens toys a few years ago always coming with police road blocks, and other police state looking this or that, with instructions to set these up. This is conditioning at it's finest really. Start young, and keep it up. Let's just call it what it is shall we? Mind control.

»uwantsun.myblogsite.com/images/p···oint.jpg

»uwantsun.myblogsite.com/images/scanit.jpg

One thing I can say is- why not starve them of data? Then eventually when they come knocking around town there simply won't be any viable data to use against you. This requires effort, sometimes money, but often just common sense. IF you practice secure, encrypted, and private protective activities you will have a bit more leeway, the general public is toast. But the best thing to do is to 'lose' your opinion on things that don't really matter, or in places where you can't have some control over the privacy.

Don't rate movies or other things. Don't join shopper clubs. Ditch the wish lists. Choose to Opt-out of everything you can. Pay with cash. Ditch the big banks and go with a mom and pop credit union. Go back to money orders and snail mail. Don't answer unknown phone calls, don't respond to surveys, and don't allow anyone on your property you haven't invited. Be unpredictable, change browsers, change computers, change operating systems, change habits. If you jog at 9am, jog the next day at 9:20 instead. Become the glitch in the system that drives them insane with unpredictability. We are approaching the time when much of these tactics need to be taken seriously, and are no longer in the realm of paranoia. If you want to expand it, read, study, observe people who came before you that did this. Learn the tactics of spies, masters of espionage. Study the patriots and whistleblowers to learn their techniques. Search for instructions, guidance, and knowledge, and then apply it. Find out the 'tricks' of the trade, then learn to apply them to your day to day activities, then there won't be much of anything to gather on anyone.Begin now to scrub yourself from the internet. Sanitize everything you do, everywhere you have been. Then RE-SANITIZE everything every few months. Change jurisdictions, reallocate resources over multiple continents. Mix things up.. Encryption? Change keys, change methods, change from 256 to 8192, then a few weeks later back to 2048. Mix it up.

Chinese are good study subjects, dissidents there are experts at skating under the oppressive police state. Read up on their tactics, and start to apply them daily. A friend of mine that lives about 30 minutes away recently tried to contact me after we sort of went separate ways a couple years ago. He said he had absolutely no luck locating anything on me. He actually had to drive over to contact me. That's a good test, considering this guy is in the business of computer forensics! Become the guy nobody knows anything about, and it will proteect your future. Then teach your kids to do the same.

PS: Anyone with a cell phone that hasn't taken precautions with it, is already chipped anyway..

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to PrivacyExprt
said by Nat Hentoff :

In the small town of Bluffdale, Utah, not far from bustling Salt Lake City, the federal government is quietly erecting what will be the crown jewel of its surveillance empire. Rising up out of the desert landscape, the Utah Data Center (UDC) – a $2 billion behemoth designed to house a network of computers, satellites and phone lines that stretches across the world – is intended to serve as (hold your breath) the central hub of the National Security Agency’s vast spying infrastructure.

Utah Data Center will cost us $2 billion? Where our government is going to get that money from? From cuts on education and infrastructure? From perspective tax increases? From printing new money? Why waste our money on global surveillance programs (that We the People surely don't need), while we all drive on bad roads?
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

PrivacyExprt

join:2010-09-29
Longwood, FL

1 recommendation

reply to PrivacyExprt
Fantastic.. Cameras and microphones you wear around.. It all makes sense now, doesn't it? They're replacing reality with a technological nightmare.. If this keeps up, I will be living in a cabin in the Rockies in a decade - or less.

»bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/04/0···glasses/

OZO
Premium
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kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to Blackbird
Blackbird See Profile - you make a very good point about white noise in randomly collected data, its filtering in order to find "a pattern", connecting dots the way as some (authorities, in this particular case) want to, global surveillance on US citizens. Everything of the above WILL create completely unhealthy environment to live here, in the US...

When govt will spend all that money (starting with $2 billion) on the new spying infrastructure, everyone should always be prepared to defend himself from completely unexpected accusations, filtered out from the white noise by that system... Prove that you're not guilty - that's the main rule of a totalitarian system, and it looks like we're urgently heading to it by our govt (and for our tax money, BTW). If you think about it - it completely changes the ground we used to stand on.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

OZO
Premium
join:2003-01-17
kudos:2
reply to PrivacyExprt
said by PrivacyExprt:

said by caffeinator:

I've wondered as well why there are so many TV shows now in recent years about "friendly" surveillance? Could it be a subtle way to accustom, indoctrinate and assimilate a change of the ways to a generation?

Of course it is, and this is exactly what they are doing. People become sort of 'blind' to something when they are indoctrinated with it. Only when they step out of the picture, view it from a distance, then step back in do they realize what is happening. Subliminals play a major part in all of this, but they've become so overt that they can just blast it in front of us everyday.

And add to the mix the fact, that US, comparing to others, is a very religious country. And, as we know, church teaches everyone, that we are always under a complete watch, 24/7, during our whole life anyway. Then why do not allow authorities to watch us the same way? Especially, if you have nothing to hide...

BTW, Zyrtec See Profile - thank you for interesting post and your observation on “If you’ve got nothing to hide" argument.
--
Keep it simple, it'll become complex by itself...

The Antihero

join:2002-04-09
Enola, PA
reply to caffeinator
said by caffeinator:

I've wondered as well why there are so many TV shows now in recent years about "friendly" surveillance? Could it be a subtle way to accustom, indoctrinate and assimilate a change of the ways to a generation?

In a way, it's beeen happening a lot longer than most of us realize. How many cop movies from the 80's, and possibly even before that, show the main character barging in without a warrant, denying their suspects of their constitutional rights, etc., and ultimately hailed as a hero?


jaykaykay
4 Ever Young
Premium,MVM
join:2000-04-13
USA
kudos:24
reply to StuartMW
I would change your statement to read:

Privacy, as we have known it, is extinct in the world

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel

1 recommendation

said by jaykaykay:

Privacy, as we have known it, is extinct in the modern world

Fixed it for you.

There are still places and people on this world that are completely free of any form of technological surveillance.


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
join:2000-08-06
Galt's Gulch
kudos:3

1 recommendation

How about

Privacy, as we have known it, is extinct in the modern western world
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


StuartMW
Who Is John Galt?
Premium
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Galt's Gulch
kudos:3

2 recommendations

reply to salzan
said by salzan:

Many of us have seen this coming for a long time.

I've seen it coming for at least 15, maybe 20, years.

The people that have a "grand plan" aren't stupid You don't restrict freedom overnight but in small increments over decades. I've noticed those small increments but most haven't. Only in the last few years are some noticing.

This is why one should never compromise on principle even if something "seems reasonable". Those add, over the long-term, to totalitarianism.
--
Don't feed trolls--it only makes them grow!


Mike
Premium,Mod
join:2000-09-17
Pittsburgh, PA
kudos:1
reply to Dude111

Re:  

I like medical RFID chips for allergies / important medical conditions if you're unable to communicate. It could save you one day.


DelmarPip
Premium
join:2011-10-15
Brownsville, TX
reply to PrivacyExprt

Re: Privacy, as we have known it, will be extinct in the USA.

hey dude111 you wont have a choice i heard they will do it at the time your born babies cant defend themselfs or run away the rest will just get it like in this movie

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtI1MtMVrco


jap
Premium
join:2003-08-10
038xx
reply to Zyrtec
said by Zyrtec:

{ well felt, thought and writ things }

Today I'm lucky. All that's needed is "In my assessment things are as Zyrtec says" and be done with it. A rare occurrence.

Much appreciation for your post.


FF4me

@bhn.net
reply to PrivacyExprt
"Privacy, as we have known it, will be extinct in the USA.

It already is.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

1 recommendation

reply to PrivacyExprt
They already do that, and that's BEFORE their new Data Center in Utah.

Check out SpyFactory--- it's on Youtube, Amazon VOD, Netflix streaming, etc etc

It also shows the 911 attacks were 100% preventable and that they already had all the tools and knowledge in place, and since 911 they have used the attacks to do exactly what you quoted:

"and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter.”

Add to that email, SMS, all webtraffic, etc etc

The new datacenter will record all telecommunications period, US or abroad origin, and is working on breaking all encryptions.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

3 recommendations

reply to caffeinator
I like Mark Fiore's versions:

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-34Iyz7EYk&


DevilFrank

join:2003-07-13
reply to PrivacyExprt
Do I have a deja-vu?
»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_of_t···e_(film)
--
Regards from Germany. Please excuse my stumbling English

OmagicQ
Posting in a thread near you

join:2003-10-23
Bakersfield, CA
kudos:1
reply to PrivacyExprt
The day will come if it has not already arrived where the average citizen could not sit down to a meal without each dish being duly noted and recorded by the government. I hope they agree with what you're eating

Reference »en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Obsidian_Order
--
"Corporal...Ready the Canon." "Yes General" "...This one goes out to the one I love." "Yes General." "Canon aimed and ready, General." "Fire!"

Sukunai
Premium
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Reviews:
·ELECTRONICBOX

1 recommendation

reply to PrivacyExprt
Privacy in the modern world has been gone for quite some time.

The only thing that has changed, is the ease with which our modern world can invade it.

It's not like it has to be that way, but in order to get it back, you actually have to leave the modern world.

No living in town. You need to be out in the sticks and truly out in the REAL wilderness (we have a lot of that in Canada).
It means no communications devices ie NONE. No phone of any sort.
No mail address, none whatsoever, you need to actually have NO place you can be reached at all.
No utilities of any sort, if you want water, heat, power you either generate it yourself or go without it.
All your food has to be obtained through your own means. Grow it yourself or hunt it down.
You need to make anything you need made, you need to provide your own medical services (THAT would not be simple).

You basically need to walk away from everything we have come to think is essential. You need to make the Amish look high tech in comparison.

If you were living out in the wilderness, on a stream for water, with solar power/heating, growing your own food and a raising a bit of livestock completely unconnected to the rest of society it would of course be visible from space, but I doubt anyone would really suspect you were technologically invisible.
You'd need to be off the road, reachable only on foot or by something like a helicopter. You'd likely want someone with medical training present, a few sturdy adults handy (because doing some tasks solo simply ain't realistic), and numbers likely not exceeding 10 without good cause (because you need to feed and house them). You likely would want some form of permanent birth control, because humans being humans, they ain't giving up on play time. And the moment you start 'adding' to the group you open a large can of worms.

You likely would be able to enjoy your privacy quite nicely. Until something like a forest fire happened to screw things up. Or some other fine example of mother nature in a hissy fit that caused the outside world to end up in your locale.

With all the above considered, I personally don't expect anyone to see privacy returned to their existence. Enjoy the spying, you can't hide from it. The average schmuck simply isn't up to the challenge of keeping apace with all the dodges needed to stay one step ahead of the powers that be wanting to know what you are doing. So don't rely on an army of joe nobodies to help you in your fight.