Topic 'Re: middle class? hardly..' in forum '' - dslreports.com

Re: middle class? hardly..

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 23:16:11 EDT

anon posted : Your figures are very close...but the top pay now is around $32/hour for an outside technician who works on the outside lines.

The pay is very good and so are the healthcare benefits. As far as the vacation days, they are about on par with normal jobs. 2 weeks vacation/year for the first 7 years, then 3 weeks until 15, then 4 weeks until 25 then it tops out at 5 weeks.

Now as far as the pay goes, what most people don't understand is when you work that job, at&t owns you and commands a great deal of your time/life. Not only do we work in all weather conditions, but we drive a company vehicle, have to exhibit a certain amount of strength/dexterity, have to have excellent troubleshooting skills, and have to have excellent one-on-one customer skills. Also, you never know when you are going to get off at the end of the day. The company has the right to force you to work late any day--they also have the right to force you to come in on your day off (yes, we get paid for every hour we work). It makes planning any event after work or on your days off VERY difficult because you do not know if you we be able to attend.

I'm not whining about my job. I really like my job. I'm just trying to show why the pay is high--they ask a lot of us. Besides, it is a Craftsman job. No one blinks an eye to pay more than $35/hour for auto repair/air conditioning work/plumbing/electrical/etc.

AT&T has hired outside technicians for less--they are called Premise Technicians and they only do the inside work for Uverse. The turnover rate with them is sky high. Why, because of the pay scale, the techs view it as a job, not a career. In my storeroom, the average years of service is over 20 years. You get a lot of quality and know-how with that much experience.

Just my 2 cents.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Thu, 05 Apr 2012 14:06:03 EDT

anon posted : Seconded. After 5 years of service as a technician, I had over 4 weeks of paid vacation a year, not counting paid holidays.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Thu, 05 Apr 2012 14:04:09 EDT

anon posted : as a unionized technician with AT&T, I can very quickly verify that we make much more than 55-65K a year. Think 100+. To be honest, I know I'm overpaid. I make over 100 grand a year (thats with my overtime) have pretty damm good health insurance (even though they want me to pay more for it, it was free for myself and my family up until the last contract) and I decent 401k setup. All of this, with a driver's license, and a high school diploma. (Didn't finish college, to many late night "study" sessions)

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 16:03:25 EDT

rradina posted : Do they really have to find a buyer first? Couldn't they spin off wired business unit as a separate entity? For that matter, if that part of the business is heavily tied to the union, they could even consider spinning it off as an employee-owned entity, couldn't they?

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 15:48:41 EDT

tmc8080 posted : How many UNION jobs, let's use your line-techs as an example have in 2006 (around the time of the Bell South merger closed)? How many of these SAME jobs exist TODAY?!? I seriously doubt it's MORE.. just as Verizon is doing with it's COPPER network, they are neglecting to invest in infrastructure and doing the bare minimum to keep copper running in some places (West Virginia). This is designed to use a little about of labor as possible.

btw, in your OWN numbers.. $18/hr is about $38k a year.. $27/hr after several years if you survive that long will net you the "NEW" middle class lifestyle ($56k?). the reason AT&T is fighting any increase is because the UAW got set back in their wages so why should a telecom union worker get much higher pay than those building cars. I'll concede one point $9/hr in wage increases after 5 years is steep for a trade-school style job, however they don't grow on trees, and are more likely political hiring than somebody having a dream at a middle class job and just "goes for it".

Some elements of Unions ARE evil, just as many elements of big corporations ARE Evil as well (however, I give a significant edge and lead to corporations in being evil). How many times do you see unions collude with big business to make working rules seem like a good deal when corporations see tough times only to be sold down the river.. the UAW got that royally when General [Sam] Motors got bailed out.

Seriously, it pays more to become a wet nurse than to be a factory worker.. now that's getting humped bigtime. The reason I'm against both the cwa and at&t is the both stink on ice. The cwa doesn't have a backbone and AT&T is just greedy and anti-consumer and in a twisted way that makes both the union and the company against the consumer. AT&T should have deployed fiber and is in the financial situation their in because they backed the wrong technology and chose NOT to compete.

** Eventually these costs will be passed onto the consumer the SAME way they're doing with wireless 4g now.. you'll see $300 u-verse triple play bills just for them to build and deploy fiber, mark my words!

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 13:01:30 EDT

axus posted : Maybe they back things that make AT&T money, so that they can get more money too?

In an ideal world, unions would stay out of politics. But, if they did that it would mean their demise.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:53:27 EDT

anon posted : AT&T wanted Bell South's 40% stake in Cingular, not their wireline business. It was less expensive to buy the whole company than just the wireless portion.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:40:20 EDT

Skippy25 posted : Another thing that has to be considered is the importance of technology at the job to the profitability of the company.

Company A may pay a technology person $65k a year where as Company B may pay a technology person doing the exact same or even more only $45k simply because Company B does not rely on the technology side as much for it's core business and profitability.

Obviously to AT&T technology/networking/installation of those things is very important to the core of their business and they should be paying the people doing that premiums for doing so.

Also, AT&T is a huge contractor just like Microsoft and the #1 reason they do it is to avoid paying the actual "price" for employees. That practice within itself is quite shady and should part of a whole other discussion.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:05:18 EDT

openbox9 posted :

said by Dolgan:

They would have to find a buyer first

Agreed, but that's a market limitation, not a prohibition. As for finding buyers, that will depend on how badly T wants out of the business.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:03:43 EDT

openbox9 posted : Sure, but have we seen any PUCs that prohibit such sales?

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 11:50:06 EDT

Dolgan posted :

quote:
As far as DSL, when the FCC allows the drop-dead date for landline service (AT&T no longer required to offer landline service), DSL will go with it.

And when is this mythical "drop dead date" for AT&T landline service? AT&T keeps telling us it does not have enough spectrum to service its current base of wireless customers, so how could they justify ending landline service and adding millions of customers to an overburdened Cellular Network? AT&T will be stuck with their landline business for the foreseeable future until they can come up with an alternative that can meet the needs of residential and business customers.

quote:
I mean seriously dude, get some perspective. There are so many other corporations out that pay $15/hr for the same exact job as a $27/hr AT&T union job.

The only Union Jobs where you can make that claim for disparity in pay is for the Call Center jobs. The Comm/Network techs are paid very similar wages throughout the industry{within $2-$3/hr} and the determining factor for the rate/hr will be the location of the job. Techs in large markets {ie Chicago, NY, LA, and etc} will be at the top of the scale and the wages will decrease as the markets get smaller.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 11:17:06 EDT

Dolgan posted :

quote:
What's to prohibit AT&T from selling off markets as Verizon has been doing?

They would have to find a buyer first and most of the Rural ILECs are under too much debt to acquire any more territories. TDS and Windstream are the only 2 left who have any purchasing power. AT&T is going to be stuck with all, or most, of their territories for quite a long time.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:25:35 EDT

Sammer posted :

said by openbox9:

said by tmc8080:

One last thing, AT&T will NEVER be allowed to jettison unprofitable DSL markets since acquiring Bell South!

What's to prohibit AT&T from selling off markets as Verizon has been doing?

State utility commissions can in most cases unless AT&T is willing to sell off all its lines in a state the way Verizon often did.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:13:05 EDT

Reno posted :

said by tmc8080:

the average big corporation doesn't pay middle class wages.. more to the point, slave wages. nevertheless, with $5/gallon of gas approaching, let's humor the fantasyland union who backed the wrong horse standing with AT&T on everything from non-unioned wireless employees to SOPA..

You have to make at least $65k (major metro area, $55k rural) to be middle class for a family of 4 these days at the ENTRY LEVEL because of the enormous healthcare premium contributions made by employees these days. How many jobs at AT&T which are UNION jobs pay that much?

One last thing, AT&T will NEVER be allowed to jettison unprofitable DSL markets since acquiring Bell South! They wanted it, now they've got it.

You do realize that an AT&T Comm/Network tech starts at around $18/hr on a 5 year auto-raise scale that ends at about $27/hr. This is for a non-managment job level where the majority of the Techs only have a Highschool degree.

That's pretty much your "65K a year" right there. Plus, AT&T Union works have about the best healthcare you can get through an employeer. Also, you'd be hard pressed to find a company that gives as many vacation days out as AT&T does. Any middle class person out there would be damn lucky to get an AT&T job right now.

As far as DSL, when the FCC allows the drop-dead date for landline service (AT&T no longer required to offer landline service), DSL will go with it.

You must be a Democrat worked up into only seeing corporations as pure evil in every regard no matter what the facts are. Your comments are moronic at best and dangerous community organizer Socialist rhetoric at wort. I mean seriously dude, get some perspective. There are so many other corporations out that pay $15/hr for the same exact job as a $27/hr AT&T union job.

Not that I have any love for big Corporations either. Although the day I feel any sympathy for a CWA worker on strike will never come. Those people you see on TV are making damn good money and receiving damn good benefits as well as a very stable job.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 09:41:28 EDT

chgo_man99 posted : Are u kidding me? IBM only pays for entry-level rhythm low 30s and majority of the jobs now (new GDFs) are in small towns in rural areas with the exception of boulder in Colorado.

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 09:34:15 EDT

FloridaBoy posted : Remember, when we were hearing about the Verizon strike, the company was paying ALL the health premiums for their employees. I wouldn't expect AT&T to be any different.

»www.nytimes.com/2011/08/07/us/07verizon.html

Re: middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 08:59:08 EDT

openbox9 posted :

said by tmc8080:

One last thing, AT&T will NEVER be allowed to jettison unprofitable DSL markets since acquiring Bell South!

What's to prohibit AT&T from selling off markets as Verizon has been doing?

middle class? hardly..

Wed, 04 Apr 2012 08:33:25 EDT

tmc8080 posted : the average big corporation doesn't pay middle class wages.. more to the point, slave wages. nevertheless, with $5/gallon of gas approaching, let's humor the fantasyland union who backed the wrong horse standing with AT&T on everything from non-unioned wireless employees to SOPA..

You have to make at least $65k (major metro area, $55k rural) to be middle class for a family of 4 these days at the ENTRY LEVEL because of the enormous healthcare premium contributions made by employees these days. How many jobs at AT&T which are UNION jobs pay that much?

One last thing, AT&T will NEVER be allowed to jettison unprofitable DSL markets since acquiring Bell South! They wanted it, now they've got it.