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frankiej

@cableone.net

[Equipment] setup a small wisp

okay so im trying to setup a small wisp for a trailer park the wifi will be free for now but will charge later right now i have a cisco srp541w as the router and a engenius eoa3630 as AP on a 54 mbps connection the max users will be around 50-75 and usually less than that my question is there a hardware wisp controller that can limit broadband to each user because right now we having people playing xbox wacthing netflix etc and make it sop others cant get on at all any suggestions on how to set this up

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
Taken from cableone.net AUP:

resell the Service or otherwise make available to anyone outside the Premises the ability to use the Service (for example, though Wi-Fi or other methods of networking), in whole or in part, directly or indirectly. The Service is for personal and non-commercial residential use only and you agree not to use the Service for operation as an Internet service provider or for any business enterprise or purpose (whether or not for profit);
connect the Cable One Equipment to any computer outside of your Premises;


frankie j

@cableone.net
okay so i have a question how did you know i have cableone first of all second of all what your quating is for residential not business we have cableone enterprise internet that we pay 200 dollars a month for so what your quoting is irreverent oh and cable one already was informed of what were doing and that dont care thank you for nothing

thewisperer
Premium
join:2008-01-16
reply to frankiej
if you look at your login on the forum, you see your provider.

I agree he jumped the gun because you never specified that you would be using cableone. (maybe he is a mad dog today...)

But your question is a complicated one that can be handled many ways.

Mikrotik with scripts can do this or limit speed for all users but if you are not familiar with it someone will have to set it up.

A 450G could probably handle it.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to frankiej
50-75 on one 54 meg AP with roaming laptops and phones is gonna be bad. Do they use outdoor CPEs? or just that? Laptops and stuff?
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to frankie j
said by frankie j :

...thank you for nothing

Why not join the forum. Members get a much warmer welcome than annoymous posters.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey


frankie j

@cableone.net
reply to Inssomniak
i dont know what you mean by outdoor cpes and no roaming its not employees its residents and yes i know that will be bad thus my question i need a controller to limit each user bandwidth to 1.5 mbps indefinitely and the wifi is free so im not paying for a t1, the business enterprise connection we have already is 200 for 54 down 4 up unlimited data a month and for free wifi to residents that is enough to spend there is 36 spaces total so 50 to 75 is being at the very extreme, there will probably never be that many devices on line at the same time and that is my problem/question is i need to limit each devices bandwidth consumption to like 1.5 or 2 mbps and qos dont get it

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
okay i joined

prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2
reply to frankiej
make a pfsense box and use the limiter to limit each IP to 1.5 meg down / 256 up.

that's the easiest way. Also, you'll probably need a bunch of AP's.

If you go with something like the outdoor Unifi system, it will have the ability to do paid for connections.

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
the ap im using is covering the grounds just fine why would i need a bunch

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to frankie j
Welcome to the forum. You could setup bandwidth limits and a captive portal using m0n0wall. That's what I use for my hotspot.

There are many discussion on this forum about how to set it up.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
reply to frankie j
said by frankie j:

the ap im using is covering the grounds just fine why would i need a bunch

You need a bunch, because if you are really piling even 75 users on one, then part of your problem lies there.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to LLigetfa
the issue i have with pfsense monowall etc is that the park owner my grandfather isnt tech literate and im not always around so if it gos out and im not here that would be a huge problem looking more for a deciacted peice of hardware with an gui that is a little easy to reset and get back online is there a deciated box that can do this for me i found one but it was for us and you cant buy it here and im trying to avoid the server route btw and money isnt an issue as long as its a 1000 or less thats fine

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to Inssomniak
well as i said before that is a super max theres 36 spaces in the park and not all of them are home at the same time and the ap doesnt route just wireless ap which says it can hold 500 users and seeing that i have a 500 dollar cisco router that is capable of 100 users with out being wayed down this is not an issue i dont think

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to Inssomniak
and right now i have 6 usaers and am having problems my problem isnt equipment its users that are downloading large files playing xbox live and wacthing netflix all at the same time and the problem with mulitple aps is now theres diff network names as well as we already have verizion breathing down are back saying we are infering with their towers and telling us lower the signal so you want me to put up more that aint going to work


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
Look at netequalizer they are a drop in appliance. But I think they start at $3000.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to Inssomniak
is there an ap that can handle that many users and also have the abilty to limit per user bandwidth


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2
said by frankie j:

is there an ap that can handle that many users and also have the abilty to limit per user bandwidth

I cant think of anything that is drop-in.

An integraded mikrotik AP/router will allow for maybe 50 and do throttling, but you want drop-in and forget, and that is far from drop-in and forget..

If they have CPEs you can use the built in throttler.

If they are just laptops, you might have one customer at -83 signal trying to stream netflix, that one laptop could be all your problems.

You have to understand how wi-fi works, Im not sure that you do. Throtting will help, but a 54 meg AP can be brought to its knees with just one bad connected client.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2
reply to frankiej
A Single 54 mbps AP will actually only be able to use about 27 mpbs. That means there's lots of room left on your connection.

An AP may claim it can have 500 users, but on those i would be hard pressed to put more than 20.

A pfsense box has a very nice GUI that's really easy to use. In terms of resetting it, you just hit the reset button. You won't have to reset it though. I've had one run for over 478 days and only took it down for an update.

Sell your $500 cisco, buy an alix, install pfsense, and away you go. You can even remotely manage pfsense.

I think the Unifi's might actually be able to rate limit users, worth checking out.

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
okay so a if i run that pfsence and i have two aps already just one isnt hooked up so if i install 2 ten feet apart ill be good for at least 40 users conccurent

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to Inssomniak
well on the street outside of the park using a 400 dollar laptop i get -35 signal so i dont think tha is the issue

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to frankiej
okay so how about using a wireless lan controller would that help in any way with 2 aps and can a wlc limit each users bandwidth

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to frankie j
said by frankie j:

well on the street outside of the park using a 400 dollar laptop i get -35 signal so i dont think tha is the issue

What are you using to measure the signal?

1 wall or tree will do a lot more damage than a few hundred feet of open air.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to frankie j
said by frankie j:

wireless ap which says it can hold 500 users and seeing that i have a 500 dollar cisco router that is capable of 100 users with out being wayed down this is not an issue i dont think

No single 802.11 router will handle 500 customers. That's pure BS. Don't believe anything the marketing people print on stuff.

The most you'll ever be able to connect without major issues would probably be 25 to 50, and that's assuming they all have excellent signal. Just one or two people with bad signal can ruin the throughput for EVERYONE else connected to the access point. The throughput of the entire AP may drop to only a few megs.

That's why most of us here require an externally installed antenna that has much better line of sight to the AP. The signals don't change as they move around their trailer since they will have their own wireless router inside the trailer if they want to use their own wireless devices.

Once you start letting people connect to an AP at that range, you will probably find that you won't have much capacity, and it will be difficult (if not impossible) to offer any reliable level of service.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:3
reply to frankie j
said by frankie j:

thank you for nothing

I wouldn't make many more comments like that. When you come to a professional forum, I'd suggest that you don't insult those who you are asking for help.

I agree that wirelessdog may have made an assumption, but you didn't state that you had a connection that was able to be shared or resold. You won't believe how many people come on forums like this and ask how to do something that is in blatant violation of their ISP's user agreement. As ISP's, we won't help you violate your contract.

Also, the people who are most likely to be looking for that kind of help are the ones who we can tell have no idea about high-end wireless networking. Your post fit that profile, and while wirelessdog may have jumped the gun a bit, all he really did was post the agreement.

Most of us are more than willing to help if we can, but we won't help someone who insults us. Just keep your attitude professional and try not to pretend that you know more than you do.

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to frankie j
said by frankie j:

well on the street outside of the park using a 400 dollar laptop i get -35 signal so i dont think tha is the issue

That doesn't mean squat. Having a strong signal from a high power AP won't help with the weak laptop trying to return. As was mentioned, your one or two AP design is doomed to fail.

You are going to have lots of weak clients tying up the APs. A stronger signal on the AP can in fact make it worse cuz all people know are bars. They don't realize that they need to return to the AP with a decent signal. If they see enough bars, they won't move around to try to find a better signal.

I run a hotspot with a dozen APs. I serve construction trailers that are a real challenge. Travel trailers would be no better and probably worse. Don't forget that most of them are wrapped in metal.

Often they will bring their own wireless repeaters and trample the spectrum. They also like to bring along wireless speakers and baby monitors.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey

BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Integra Telecom
reply to jcremin
said by jcremin:

I agree that wirelessdog may have made an assumption, but you didn't state that you had a connection that was able to be shared or resold. You won't believe how many people come on forums like this and ask how to do something that is in blatant violation of their ISP's user agreement. As ISP's, we won't help you violate your contract.

Not only that, but there's some liability involved. Those of us who are ISPs and follow the safe harbor provisions are going to have a lot less to worry about when it comes to our own customer's liability.

Having an ASN, published Abuse POC, and website with clear TOS provided to customers will go a long ways with meeting the safe harbor provisions outlined in the DMCA.

When you resell layer 3 connectivity (such as a cable company's service), they are the ones that get contacted with abuse complaints. When they realize you are a large source for abuse complaints (since you're their only customer with that IP address range), you're at risk for being cut off. Even more prevalent with the large ISP's upcoming changes with copyright abuse policies.

Even worse, if litigation were to be brought up by a private party, your ISP will just pass on the liability to you and you only. They will have their bases covered.

BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Integra Telecom
reply to frankie j
said by frankie j:

we have cableone enterprise internet that we pay 200 dollars a month for so what your quoting is irreverent

Unless you're leasing less than 10mbps of bandwidth, I would surprsied to see any "enterprise" service as little as $200/mo. You can't even get a single T1 (average prices) at that price.

My guess is it's a "business class" product with a weak SLA and specified terms regarding resale.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to frankiej
The OP has stated they have permission in some capacity so thats good enough for me.

It sounds like you need a turn-key dummy proof solution. Perhaps Open Mesh or Meraki would be something to consider.

You could also use a Nomadix controller with Ubiquiti AP's. Wouldn't this be a good application for three 120 degree rocket sectors?

frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to BlueC
ya you are kinda right and i understand what your saying we live in a very small town 5000 ppl in the whole town and cabe one is they only isp and we told them what we wanted to do and that is the enterprise that they offer where we are t1s here are 10,000 to install and 4,000 a month because there is NO big bussinesses where we are located and the whole point of me even saying that is because wireless dogs statement