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frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to Inssomniak

Re: [Equipment] setup a small wisp

well on the street outside of the park using a 400 dollar laptop i get -35 signal so i dont think tha is the issue


frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to frankiej

okay so how about using a wireless lan controller would that help in any way with 2 aps and can a wlc limit each users bandwidth


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to frankie j

said by frankie j:

well on the street outside of the park using a 400 dollar laptop i get -35 signal so i dont think tha is the issue

What are you using to measure the signal?

1 wall or tree will do a lot more damage than a few hundred feet of open air.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to frankie j

said by frankie j:

wireless ap which says it can hold 500 users and seeing that i have a 500 dollar cisco router that is capable of 100 users with out being wayed down this is not an issue i dont think

No single 802.11 router will handle 500 customers. That's pure BS. Don't believe anything the marketing people print on stuff.

The most you'll ever be able to connect without major issues would probably be 25 to 50, and that's assuming they all have excellent signal. Just one or two people with bad signal can ruin the throughput for EVERYONE else connected to the access point. The throughput of the entire AP may drop to only a few megs.

That's why most of us here require an externally installed antenna that has much better line of sight to the AP. The signals don't change as they move around their trailer since they will have their own wireless router inside the trailer if they want to use their own wireless devices.

Once you start letting people connect to an AP at that range, you will probably find that you won't have much capacity, and it will be difficult (if not impossible) to offer any reliable level of service.

jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to frankie j

said by frankie j:

thank you for nothing

I wouldn't make many more comments like that. When you come to a professional forum, I'd suggest that you don't insult those who you are asking for help.

I agree that wirelessdog may have made an assumption, but you didn't state that you had a connection that was able to be shared or resold. You won't believe how many people come on forums like this and ask how to do something that is in blatant violation of their ISP's user agreement. As ISP's, we won't help you violate your contract.

Also, the people who are most likely to be looking for that kind of help are the ones who we can tell have no idea about high-end wireless networking. Your post fit that profile, and while wirelessdog may have jumped the gun a bit, all he really did was post the agreement.

Most of us are more than willing to help if we can, but we won't help someone who insults us. Just keep your attitude professional and try not to pretend that you know more than you do.

LLigetfa

join:2006-05-15
Fort Frances, ON
kudos:1
reply to frankie j

said by frankie j:

well on the street outside of the park using a 400 dollar laptop i get -35 signal so i dont think tha is the issue

That doesn't mean squat. Having a strong signal from a high power AP won't help with the weak laptop trying to return. As was mentioned, your one or two AP design is doomed to fail.

You are going to have lots of weak clients tying up the APs. A stronger signal on the AP can in fact make it worse cuz all people know are bars. They don't realize that they need to return to the AP with a decent signal. If they see enough bars, they won't move around to try to find a better signal.

I run a hotspot with a dozen APs. I serve construction trailers that are a real challenge. Travel trailers would be no better and probably worse. Don't forget that most of them are wrapped in metal.

Often they will bring their own wireless repeaters and trample the spectrum. They also like to bring along wireless speakers and baby monitors.
--
Strange as it seems, no amount of learning can cure stupidity, and formal education positively fortifies it. -- Stephen Vizinczey

BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
reply to jcremin

said by jcremin:

I agree that wirelessdog may have made an assumption, but you didn't state that you had a connection that was able to be shared or resold. You won't believe how many people come on forums like this and ask how to do something that is in blatant violation of their ISP's user agreement. As ISP's, we won't help you violate your contract.

Not only that, but there's some liability involved. Those of us who are ISPs and follow the safe harbor provisions are going to have a lot less to worry about when it comes to our own customer's liability.

Having an ASN, published Abuse POC, and website with clear TOS provided to customers will go a long ways with meeting the safe harbor provisions outlined in the DMCA.

When you resell layer 3 connectivity (such as a cable company's service), they are the ones that get contacted with abuse complaints. When they realize you are a large source for abuse complaints (since you're their only customer with that IP address range), you're at risk for being cut off. Even more prevalent with the large ISP's upcoming changes with copyright abuse policies.

Even worse, if litigation were to be brought up by a private party, your ISP will just pass on the liability to you and you only. They will have their bases covered.

BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1
reply to frankie j

said by frankie j:

we have cableone enterprise internet that we pay 200 dollars a month for so what your quoting is irreverent

Unless you're leasing less than 10mbps of bandwidth, I would surprsied to see any "enterprise" service as little as $200/mo. You can't even get a single T1 (average prices) at that price.

My guess is it's a "business class" product with a weak SLA and specified terms regarding resale.

wirelessdog

join:2008-07-15
Queen Anne, MD
kudos:1
reply to frankiej

The OP has stated they have permission in some capacity so thats good enough for me.

It sounds like you need a turn-key dummy proof solution. Perhaps Open Mesh or Meraki would be something to consider.

You could also use a Nomadix controller with Ubiquiti AP's. Wouldn't this be a good application for three 120 degree rocket sectors?


frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to BlueC

ya you are kinda right and i understand what your saying we live in a very small town 5000 ppl in the whole town and cabe one is they only isp and we told them what we wanted to do and that is the enterprise that they offer where we are t1s here are 10,000 to install and 4,000 a month because there is NO big bussinesses where we are located and the whole point of me even saying that is because wireless dogs statement


frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to BlueC

thank you for the concern i am aware of those issues which is why we will implement mac registering and we are not selling anything btw i said we might begin to charge but that is very dependent on how much it will cost a month for us to provide the serivice but the security and an finding the ones doing illegal stuff i cant find without problem i have a bachelors in cyber security so that i am not concerend with im just not that familiar with wireless signals etc. i can hack it but thats about the extent of my knowledge


frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to jcremin

ok so i can understand that but you have to understand where im coming from we only are trying to cover 1.5 acres with a few trees not many and at the street i get 5 bars both directions of the street and in the center theres 2 aps 20ft from each other and i can walk across the street past about 6 houses and still have 3 bars im trying to give wifi to the park not the world so how many aps do u suggest and realy 25-50 per ap is plenty and that what i meant to put is 50 lol but as ive said we only have 36 spaces which arent all always full and when they are not every1 has a computer or a device to connect to the internet an most wouldnt even know how to use one are demagraphic is mostly old retirees as where we live is small pretty tourist town so if i can have 50 ppl connected to the 2 aps combined thats probaly plenty and if later we need to add more then i will


frankie j

join:2012-04-06
reply to wirelessdog

i like your suggestion but i would rather not replace the current aps if possible i mean if i have to i have to but id rather not any other equipment i can use with my current aps



TomS_
Git-r-done
Premium,MVM
join:2002-07-19
London, UK
kudos:5

1 recommendation

reply to frankiej

Ye gads man. How about some commas and full stops to make your posts more readable!



Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

said by TomS_:

Ye gads man. How about some commas and full stops to make your posts more readable!

Lol. I wasn't gonna say it.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca

BlueC

join:2009-11-26
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:1

said by Inssomniak:

said by TomS_:

Ye gads man. How about some commas and full stops to make your posts more readable!

Lol. I wasn't gonna say it.

We were all thinking it.


Inssomniak
The Glitch
Premium
join:2005-04-06
Cayuga, ON
kudos:2

Especially bad from someone that has a bachelors degree.

Also MAC auth is going to be a nightmare with customer supplied laptops and phones and tablets. Also it's quite easy to spoof MAC addresses.
--
OptionsDSL Wireless Internet
»www.optionsdsl.ca


Hahausuck
Premium
join:2003-12-14
kudos:2
reply to frankie j

What state or town do you live in that is served by cable one?

They are pretty ruthless in terms of enforcing their AUP. If they find out you are reselling they will shut it down. Chances are this will happen as someone will torrent a movie and get a DMCA notice sent to cable one and they will pass it on but only after they shut the service off.

I do not suggest doing this.
--
"Saying something in another language that you don't think the other person understands is just saying that you're a pussy and are too afraid to say it in English." --Harddrive



frankiej

@cableone.net

okay so seriously im sick of hearing dont do it they wont let you distrubute service for the 5 time THEY ARE ALREADY FULLY AWARE AND OKAY WITH WAT IM DOING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the day we order the fing service we told them are plans and they said okay heres the package you need then.
and okay you guys say i need more aps but im saying its only 300 feet, granted the trailers are metal etc. but its free f@#$ing wifi i dont care how good there signal is there not paying for it i just need to know how to cap there bandwidth why is it you PROFESIONALS keep telling me all kinds of crap and not just awnsering the question i asked thank you for those that tried to awnser the question but to all you ppl with stupid comments jack off ill figure it out my self



WHT

join:2010-03-26
Rosston, TX
kudos:5

Other than poor spelling and poor grammar....

said by frankiej :

but its free f@#$ing wifi i dont care how good there signal is

You *do* need to care about signal level. A client with a poor signal level will tie up the AP with retransmissions.

said by frankiej :

why is it you PROFESIONALS keep telling me all kinds of crap and not just awnsering the question i asked

Because we *are* professionals, we ask several different kinds of questions. Simply answering your few questions leaves the more critical questions unanswered.

jim_p_price7

join:2005-10-28
Henryetta, OK
reply to frankiej

Wow. Okay. Well, good luck with your project man. Hope it works out for you.


prairiesky

join:2008-12-08
canada
kudos:2
reply to frankiej

just because we're not giving you the answers you want to hear does not mean we're not giving you answers.

either take the advice people here are giving you or don't. Everyone here has tried to get away with as little as possible at one point or another and they've learned from their mistakes. The easiest way is to take their advice the first time and do it right.


jcremin

join:2009-12-22
Siren, WI
kudos:2
reply to frankiej

I tried to warn you not to take that attitude, but since you refuse, you should go to another forum for hobbyists then. All of these people are trying to look out for your best interest, and you tell them to jack off? Nobody's going to help you with that attitude.

Here's the deal, many of us have experience with ISP's saying one thing and doing another. If you don't have it in writing (that you can distribute or resell the service) from the ISP, they COULD and probably WILL cut you off at some point. It doesn't matter that some sales rep may have said something different to get the commission.. You might be fine, but the people here are just trying to help make sure you don't end up getting screwed over. But that's fine, you don't have to believe us professionals who actually do this for a living.

And you obviously have no experience doing a large wi-fi network. Again, everyone here is trying to offer you suggestions about how to do it so it will actually work. In one post you say how you need it to work, and in the next you say you don't care how well it works. Again, the people here do this for a living, so don't waste our time asking for help designing a system and then bitch to us when it isn't what you wanted to hear.

And I agree with the comments above... Learn how to type somewhat professionally if you're going to post in a professional forum. If you want to type like this in some hobbyist forum with 13 year old kids doing this in their spare time, fine... But when you're dealing with professionals who are taking time out of their already busy and overloaded day to try to help someone like you, at least have the courtesy of not making us struggle to read what you're typing.

You've got a piss poor attitude, and you show no respect for those of us with more knowledge on this subject than you, so I don't expect you'll be getting any more help, and chances are a moderator will lock or delete this thread since it no longer serves any useful purpose here. I just hope you get a chance to read this before that happens.

Thanks for wasting our time.



treichhart

join:2006-12-12
reply to frankiej

I agree with Joe,Justin,Jim and some other ones please take the advice some some of these people they have helped me out alot and dont piss and moan about not getting the correct answers. They are trying to give you all the answers they can give since they are running there own WISP or ISP themsels FYI. Also I am start up WISP and it does take alots of time and it just dont happen over night or the weekend dude it takes time and understanding on RF and networking and what your doing to run a good WISP.

Like Joe said this thread will probably be locked or deleted here soon since the OP is trying to start a flaming war with other members on this board and to the OP we are just here to help for free help like we are giving take the advice we are giving if not PAY SOMEBODY TO HELP YOU SETUP YOUR NETWORK!!!!!