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mvv

@telus.net

[TV] Letter Box VS Full Screen

Why is it when I watch a digital OVA channel I get full screen, But when I watch the exact same program on the exact same (network) channel using shaw digital cable I get letter box?

To confuse things even more, some times it does display at full screen watching shaw digital tv. Why is it sometimes full screen and sometimes not?

Is shaw screwing with the aspect just trying to make me pay extra for full screen??


tablo

join:2011-06-30
Edmonton, AB

Watched Arthur on KSPS (HD) the other day and it was actually zoomed in to get rid of the pillarboxing.



mvv

@telus.net

said by tablo:

Watched Arthur on KSPS (HD) the other day and it was actually zoomed in to get rid of the pillarboxing.

And here I thought only SD had problems with aspect. LoL

zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to mvv

How do you have your SD setup on your cable box?

I have mine setup for 4:3 override turned off. This means it won't stretch out to try and fill the screen. It also upconverts it to 1080i (I can't remember what setting I use for that).

basically when the cable box is turned off, try hit the settings button (some units can access by remote, some you have to press the button on the box), and play around with the settings.



mvv

@telus.net

said by zod5000:

How do you have your SD setup on your cable box?

I have mine setup for 4:3 override turned off. This means it won't stretch out to try and fill the screen. It also upconverts it to 1080i (I can't remember what setting I use for that).

basically when the cable box is turned off, try hit the settings button (some units can access by remote, some you have to press the button on the box), and play around with the settings.

I have the 2500 STB, there is no settings regarding how to display the picture. If I could just pick a setting, that would be nice.

I guess im trying to find out how shaw decides to adjust the aspect and then stream it to me. Why is it mostly in letter box but some times full screen? When in comparison to the actual network broadcast, it just dosent make sense.

waldstein

join:2010-07-25
Hoserland
reply to mvv

I find that when I select a saved HD program, or switch to an HD channel, the screen sometimes (not frequently) stays in SD (4:3) mode (bars on each side). The image is squeezed, iow. The "fix" simple enough, is to change channels, go to the schedule page, or, basically, do ANYTHING to prod the cable box. I do NOT believe the problem is in my TV.

This may have nothing to do with your problem, but I felt it worth adding to the convo.


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to mvv

That's why I think its a technology issue. I can't see a cable company wasting money and resources on it. They're probably much more content just transmitting the feed as they receive it? (with some added compression of course).

Why would they pay staff to watch all the tv channels and crop/stretch/letterbox random content? It's a complete waste of manpower?


kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

1 edit
reply to mvv

DCT2500 is not a HD device.

It will only output SD signals to your TV.

It is up to your TV settings to stretch the image to the way you want it.

I personally, have the stretch/zoom options all turned off, as well as the upconverting.

If the channel is 720p, my TV gets a 720p signal, same as 480i. I don't like devices changing te video picture, especailly stretching

But this only applies to HD units.

Which channel number on the Shaw box were you watching? Under 200?

--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



mvv

@telus.net

said by zod5000:

That's why I think its a technology issue. I can't see a cable company wasting money and resources on it. They're probably much more content just transmitting the feed as they receive it? (with some added compression of course).

Why would they pay staff to watch all the tv channels and crop/stretch/letterbox random content? It's a complete waste of manpower?

But thats what I find odd, Its not necessarily random, it varies. I do understand when you say resources, though it dosent really take man power to do that kinda stuff these days. I dont think you understood what I was trying to explain. I tried to explain my view the best I could.

said by kevinds:

DCT2500 is not a HD device.

It will only output SD signals to your TV.

It is up to your TV settings to stretch the image to the way you want it.

I personally, have the stretch/zoom options all turned off, as well as the upconverting.

If the channel is 720p, my TV gets a 720p signal, same as 480i. I don't like devices changing te video picture, especailly stretching

But this only applies to HD units.

Which channel number on the Shaw box were you watching? Under 200?

Yup, I do know all about SD and HD and all the technical stuff that surrounds it. I can fix things on my end but thats not really what I was looking for.

I guess im really just fishing for info about the hole HD CATV thing. Why and how is responsible for taking a feed and streaming it to me in the formats they are. And why does it deffer from time to time.

And I guess it like the others in the thread are saying; that an HD channel isint TRUE HD all the time. So for me it sometime looks like the really only reason to get HD is to get full screen?

I do realize that there is many TRUE HD programing out there and more to come. But it reminds me of the analog digital tv signal fight. Back in the day, if you streamed digital TV you were so much better. Truth was (not considering bandwidth issues) If you had a good analog signal, the digital wasn't that much better.

I suppose what it KINDA comes down for me anyways, Is it just more hype than reality for today? Dont get me wrong TRUE HD is awesome.

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

That is true,

Streaming a 480i signal via analog or digital, there really isn't a huge difference.

3 things to have HD,

Hardware, Channel, and Content - if any one is missing, you are back to 480i.

I really notice the difference in quality, if I walk into the room and someone is watching Channel 4, I will grab the remote and change to 213, only because it looks better.

When you said you were using a 2500, I really had to question, and get more infomation.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



mvv

@telus.net

said by kevinds:

That is true,

Streaming a 480i signal via analog or digital, there really isn't a huge difference.

3 things to have HD,

Hardware, Channel, and Content - if any one is missing, you are back to 480i.

I really notice the difference in quality, if I walk into the room and someone is watching Channel 4, I will grab the remote and change to 213, only because it looks better.

When you said you were using a 2500, I really had to question, and get more infomation.

I think you hit the nail on what im trying to describe in a way. I know what you mean about changing the channel to 213 (omni?) Neat thing is, I dont get 213 but i do get 56.1. (shaw doesn't offer SD for omni) And know whats funny, I get better picture when I use the coat hanger connected to my TV and no box.. LOL BUT less channels.

tablo

join:2011-06-30
Edmonton, AB

1 edit

(..



mvv

@telus.net

said by tablo:

huh? i thought it was channel 11?

oopps my bad, them darn names vs call names. lol

but still the the same issues....

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to tablo

There are a few channels that are different per city, local stations,

My channel 4 and 213 are both CJCO

In Calgary, I probably could use OTA, if I cancel Shaw, I will.
Basic TV is included in my internet plan, so there is no cost savings not using it.

When I was in Nanaimo, CTV was not in Basic cable in HD, but the signal wasn't strong enough to pick it up.

Using OTA, you will have no compression, compared to Shaw's network.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



mvv

@telus.net

You know what would be the best thing for shaw and others to do but i know it wont happen for a long time. Is drop SD and offer HD with the STBs that output SD and HD (if they dont already have) IMO not only would it be a "cross the board" service, you will gain more room and may even drop operating cost. The only down side of this option, is if the older STBs can be updated, the cost is on the user. Guess there may be no way out of the "situation" for the time being. I wonder if TECHNICALLY something like a 2500 could be used if you changed only software or just be authorized. Or im sure OTA programing may be more available in some areas.

just my 2 cents.
oh wait, I have no pennies, I guess its my 1 cent. LOL



mvv

@telus.net

said by mvv :

just my 2 cents.
oh wait, I have no pennies, I guess its my 1 cent. LOL

sorry, should read:

just my 2 cents.
oh wait, I have no pennies, I guess its my 0 cent. LOL

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to mvv

The DCT2000 could output HD with the HDD200 Decoder, which will hook up to the HD outputs on the back of the STB.

The DCT2000 and DCT2500, have no space left in their flash storage for any additions/changes. 2000 for sure, 95% confident the 2500 is the same.
The DCT3080 has no issues recording nor downconverting HD channels to 480i output.
I have no data on the DCT700 for something like this.

@mvv - something like Shaw only offering the Gateway system for example? All customers, the same equipment?
The Portals have Composite Output but not RF out, for the few people that do not have composite inputs on their TV's RF modulators are pretty simple...

Or do you mean dropping all SD channels from the cable system?
Only issue with this is the variety of channels that are not in HD.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.



mvv

@telus.net

said by kevinds:

The DCT2000 could output HD with the HDD200 Decoder, which will hook up to the HD outputs on the back of the STB.

The DCT2000 and DCT2500, have no space left in their flash storage for any additions/changes. 2000 for sure, 95% confident the 2500 is the same.
The DCT3080 has no issues recording nor downconverting HD channels to 480i output.
I have no data on the DCT700 for something like this.

As far as what you say here, Ill have to take your word cause I just dont know enough about that stuff.

@mvv - something like Shaw only offering the Gateway system for example? All customers, the same equipment?
The Portals have Composite Output but not RF out, for the few people that do not have composite inputs on their TV's RF modulators are pretty simple...

Yes something like that, Though I dont think it can happen over night. Because that would pee subscribers off. But Im positive in the future, something like this will be the way. Kinda like digital kicked out analog.

Or do you mean dropping all SD channels from the cable system?
Only issue with this is the variety of channels that are not in HD.

Well i guess, as a HD channel comes out drop the SD channel and provide the HD to subscribers. Since at least at this time, not all HD is true HD. Even though this wasn't my original beef, guess its what it kinda comes down to. And just to add back the the original thought, Like its been said in this thread, if some HD content is being stretched anyways, why not stretch the SD since its LQ. Thats why sometimes I think shaw is doing the letterbox on purpose. Why ask people pay extra for HD when its not 100% And thats why I say drop SD.

Unfortunately when I try and explain my self, if feel like im going in circles. lol

kevinds
Premium
join:2003-05-01
Calgary, AB
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Shaw

quote:
Yes something like that, Though I dont think it can happen over night. Because that would pee subscribers off. But Im positive in the future, something like this will be the way. Kinda like digital kicked out analog.

The reason this can not happen, is because of constant improving of hardware.

A year or two ago, the best PVR service that Shaw offered was the 2-tuner 500GB model, either Pace or Motorola, except for very minor differences, they were the same.

Now the 6-tuner 500GB gateway and portals is the best TV hardware they offer.

Two years from now when a 16-tuner 10TB gateway system comes out (I don't think this exists now, only using as an extreme example) and everybody was changed to the current gateway system so everybody has the same options, people will not be able upgrade to it, without upgrading everybody.

I know there is well over 1 million digital TV accounts, many with multiple TVs, this is a lot of hardware to replace every couple years for Shaw.

This is why it can't happen, cost, waste, and changing customer's hardware - many people are resistant to change.
--
Yes, I am not employed and looking for IT work. Have passport, will travel.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to mvv

said by mvv :

Well i guess, as a HD channel comes out drop the SD channel and provide the HD to subscribers. Since at least at this time, not all HD is true HD. Even though this wasn't my original beef, guess its what it kinda comes down to. And just to add back the the original thought, Like its been said in this thread, if some HD content is being stretched anyways, why not stretch the SD since its LQ. Thats why sometimes I think shaw is doing the letterbox on purpose. Why ask people pay extra for HD when its not 100% And thats why I say drop SD.

Unfortunately when I try and explain my self, if feel like im going in circles. lol

there are different carriage rules for sd and hd stations, so just substituting them is not going to provide proper compliancy.
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to mvv

The problem happens because the OTA (its called ota not ova) channel is always in HD (where available) while the channel you get on the shah digital cable, may be sd channel. if its sd, chances are they are squeezing it into a 4:3 frame, so that includes the black space on the top and bottom, then your stb adds the black space on the left and right since your not tuned into a hd staion, hope this helps
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!