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Bluffton, SC
reply to tmc8080

Re: when you consider..

said by tmc8080:

You also forgot a new method of hydrogen from oxidizing a powder made of various metals which separates hydrogen from water efficiently. Various types of renewable batteries are being developed that are hundreds of times more efficient in power than NIMH batteries. Perhaps one day you fill your car up with water and in another compartment a powder as your fuels. Ethanol's is not worth producing IF you use OIL based fuels as your source, but renewables including wind turbines & hydrogen based generators ARE more efficient and making power/electricity than OIL based fuels. The misinformation your quoting is from the OIL industry lobby. It was used in addition to the MANIPULATION of the CORN and SUGAR prices in 2008 to kill off mass production of ethanol in the northeast and delayed projects in the midwest 5 years. Get your facts from some place other than the oil industry please. I agree solar is a boondoggle in the northeast, but in zones where the sun is much stronger such as the central and southwest it is a worthy investment by energy producers. That's where wind turbines take over for the northeast. It's always windy SOMEWHERE enough to turn a turbine. Coastlines have several windy days. Another oil industry lobby effort neglects to recognize when economies of scale build for alternatives the cost savings skyrocket. Many upfront costs for medium sized businesses that use hydrogen power generators are getting lower each and every year. These economies of scale work best in mechanised industries like factory production, farm work, etc. That's why the oil pipeline is key to kiliing off midwest ethanol production. Farmers found a way to get stop consuming gasoline & diesel fuels in favor of ethanol production with the electriicty coming from wind turbines and/or solar, geothermal energy. SOME still use natural gas as prices have been plummeting nationwide.

I trade stocks for a living and have for 20 years, I know exactly what is out there and the cost. Your argument has been around for 40 years it's always right around the corner when we get economy of scale etc. etc. Same with your hydrogen argument, commercial H comes from nat gas. Period. It is the least costly way. Can you make Hydrogen other ways? Yes you can. When you talk about ethanol you aren't including all the government subsidies that go into corn production as well. Also there is real concern the amount of water use to make ethanol may end up being a problem where it is produced. Vehicles have run on gas for 100+ years for a reason, cheap and it works.

Here's one to look into and would really work if it worked. PV cells based on UV, IR and visible light. Those are in labs right now if you believe every thing you read. Doesn't matter what's in the labs it has to work better than present products and cost the same or less. Is it possible that PV cells could work 24 hours a day collecting other wave lengths then visible light? Yes. It's not going to happen right around the corner or possibly 50 years. Batteries? Same problem there, most likely battery tech will be first seen in laptops or phones first. Cars? Could be 20-30 years,