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fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

Not a smart meter problem

This has nothing to do with smart meters. You can use a magnet on an old fashioned mechanical meter and slow them down to steal electricity (yes, it's stealing.)

The bureau may not be 100% correct in saying that it's more difficult to detect theft with a smart meter. All someone has to do is remove the magnets just prior to the day that they know the meter reader is coming. In fact, with smart meters they can detect the theft even easier because readings are taken at least hourly and a sharp change in usage (such as a 50 to 75 percent drop) can raise a red flag. Only someone completely stupid would leave the magnets on all the time because they'll be caught easily.

And there's no real reason to spread this FUD about a good technology. Smart meters are a good technology. Our cooperative is 100% smart meter (AMR) and the end result is more accurate billing, no estimated bills, automatic outage notification and the ability to view your usage on their website billing portal. You can also take advantage of ETS (by using a second meter and an ETS heating unit) to heat your home at reduced rates. Sure, they can disconnect you remotely but if you pay your bill on time every month there's no problem.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
And now they can bill you more per Kw during peak hours. Don't think they are not thinking about forcing you to do your laundry at 3am because the rates are cheaper.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by battleop:

And now they can bill you more per Kw during peak hours. Don't think they are not thinking about forcing you to do your laundry at 3am because the rates are cheaper.

So what. The utilities already have to pay more during peak hours. They're just passing on the cost where it belongs instead of having everyone subsidize peak usage.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
That's why they add the "Fuel Adjustment" fee to the bill. I suspect that they will bill for peak usage and not do away with the "Fuel Adjustment" or "Meter Reading" fees.
--
I do not, have not, and will not work for AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/Charter or similar sized company.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness

1 recommendation

reply to battleop
said by battleop:

And now they can bill you more per Kw during peak hours. Don't think they are not thinking about forcing you to do your laundry at 3am because the rates are cheaper.

yeah and? Utilities have a actual reason to encourage people to reduce usage during the day.

I guess cell phone companies taking away your minutes M-F between 6 AM and 9 PM are fucking you over and forcing you to make calls between 9 PM and 6 AM and on week-ends when minutes don't count.

Joe12345678

join:2003-07-22
Des Plaines, IL
In the Summer heat the peak use is in the day and at night use is lower.


iamwhatiam

@verizon.net
reply to fifty nine
They should setup an electromagnet (oh, the irony) which is activated only when some heavy-use appliance (an oven, for example) is in use--total usage will look fairly "normal".


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to 88615298
So you are excited to see your power bill go up?


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to battleop
said by battleop:

That's why they add the "Fuel Adjustment" fee to the bill. I suspect that they will bill for peak usage and not do away with the "Fuel Adjustment" or "Meter Reading" fees.

It's not about fuel. It's about demand.

The suppliers add a demand charge during peak usage. This has nothing to do with fuel. This has to do with scrambling to fire up additional generation capacity to take care of that peak demand. It's more complex than that but that's essentially what it boils down to.

Your utility currently absorbs this and spreads this among all customers. That's not really fair. With smart meters and demand based billing, the heavy peak users will pay for their peak usage while those who decide to conserve during peak hours won't have to pay for peak users.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to battleop
said by battleop:

So you are excited to see your power bill go up?

I'm excited about not having to subsidize peak users. REally excited that everyone will be paying their fair share instead of me having to subsidize them.


bbbc

join:2001-10-02
NorthAmerica
kudos:2
Reviews:
·FreedomPop
said by fifty nine:

I'm excited about not having to subsidize peak users. REally excited that everyone will be paying their fair share instead of me having to subsidize them.

Yeah, corporations are all about fair share, give me a break. The problem with your joy is that these utilities don't pass the savings on to supposed Honest Joes like you. That savings usually gets passed on as executive / management bonuses. I'm sure you would dig Internet UBB (Usage Based Billing) too.

--
Consumerist.com | Consumers Union


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
My utility is not a corporation.

I'm sure it sucks to be on one that is though!

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to bbbc
Electricity is usage based billing isn't it? I get what your saying though, the difference is bandwidth is not a limited resource, sure the pipe may only be so big but given enough time there is not limit to how much data can travel through it. Electricity is a limited resource for now.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
said by me1212:

Electricity is usage based billing isn't it? I get what your saying though, the difference is bandwidth is not a limited resource, sure the pipe may only be so big but given enough time there is not limit to how much data can travel through it. Electricity is a limited resource for now.

Bandwidth is a limited resource too because it is oversubscribed.

The electric grid is oversubscribed AND there is limited generation capacity, so electric utilities have two reasons to ration.


skeechan
Ai Otsukaholic
Premium
join:2012-01-26
AA169|170
kudos:2
Reviews:
·Clear Wireless
·Cox HSI
·Verizon FiOS
reply to fifty nine
I'd be happier if I didn't have to subsidize local power utility idiocy like them spending millions to put their name on a ball park a few years ago...as if they need to advertise to a CAPTIVE audience.

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to fifty nine
The Grid is beyond oversubscribed and if it's not maintained and rebuilt from the ground up it won't be pretty for the next blackout. It will be more than NY and Ohio going out.

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to skeechan
And yet; if they didn't do it your city would or someone else that wants the Game there. Would you rather your tax money be paid to maintain that park? Hell in Ohio Nationwide has several parks with their name on it; well they are based here as well, but still. Advertising is advertising.


iamwhatiam

@verizon.net
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by me1212:

Electricity is usage based billing isn't it? I get what your saying though, the difference is bandwidth is not a limited resource, sure the pipe may only be so big but given enough time there is not limit to how much data can travel through it. Electricity is a limited resource for now.

Bandwidth is a limited resource too because it is oversubscribed.

You apparently don't understand what the term "limited resource" means -- it has a very specific usage and does not apply to something such as bandwidth.


88615298
Premium
join:2004-07-28
West Tenness
reply to battleop
said by battleop:

So you are excited to see your power bill go up?

How is that? They are giving me a lower rate at night. So that's when I'll use the washing machine, dishwasher etc etc. Hot water heater uses more electricity than any other appliance. About 1/4 of your electric bill can be traced back to your hot water heater. Also they are saving money buy not having to pay a bunch of guys to go read meters. Also if there is storm and a power outage they aren't having to make 3, 4 or more trips to restore everyone's power.


DavePR

join:2008-06-04
Canyon Country, CA
reply to skeechan
Blame deregulation; Edison had many competitors back then.


battleop

join:2005-09-28
00000
reply to fifty nine
You really think they are doing this for your bottom line?

25139889

join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH
reply to iamwhatiam
yes it does. How do you figure its not? It is limited due to the amount of people you put on it. You can only go so far. Once you hit that cap you're done.

TheMG
Premium
join:2007-09-04
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·NorthWest Tel
reply to battleop
said by battleop:

And now they can bill you more per Kw during peak hours. Don't think they are not thinking about forcing you to do your laundry at 3am because the rates are cheaper.

Peak/off-peak mechanical meters have been around for decades. This is not something new.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to fifty nine
"AND there is limited generation capacity"

thats what I meant when I said bandwidth was unlimited. Sure the pipe may be oversold and it may not be sending full speed out to you, but it doesn't have a limited generation capacity.

me1212

join:2008-11-20
Pleasant Hill, MO
reply to DavePR
Its not exactly deregulation's fault. in fact some government regulation only permits there to be one telco or cableco or powerco per city or what have you.

InvalidError

join:2008-02-03
kudos:5
reply to iamwhatiam
A 1Gbps link has 1Gbps of bandwidth, it isn't unlimited, you cannot push more than 1Gbps through it. If you want to increase bandwidth, you have to upgrade equipment and possibly the wiring.

While fiber may have theoretically infinite bandwidth, physical, practical, technical, economical, etc. constraints limits usable bandwidth to a tiny fraction of that, meaning that the achievable bandwidth at a particular moment in time is always very much finite. While speeds in excess of 3Tbps/strand have been demonstrated, the laser setups required to make it happen are not practical for everyday deployments, which is why those fancy arrangements are almost exclusively applied to trans-oceanic and other similar situations where pulling a new cable or pulling cables with gobs of spare strands is not an option. On trans-oceanic cables, each extra strand means one extra amplifier every 120km or so, so the number of strands that can be carried is limited by power.

While you may have lots of bandwidth between two points, it will never be unlimited.

zoomer

join:2007-09-06
Rochester, NY
reply to bbbc
Utilities are regulated entities. If everything remains the same, average users will see no change to their bill. Users who actively try to shift their consumption to off peak times save utilities from ramping expensive peak generation, and are compensated for their trouble. These who demand that their AC, washer, dryer, dishwasher and charging electric car all be done at these couple hours around 7pm and 7am can do so, and pay for the convenience.


dvd536
as Mr. Pink as they come
Premium
join:2001-04-27
Phoenix, AZ
kudos:4
reply to battleop
said by battleop:

So you are excited to see your power bill go up?

mine went up 240% after getting my "mandatory" smartmeter!


iamwhatiam

@verizon.net
reply to InvalidError
You, too, should try looking up the term "limited resource" as it applies to "non-renewable" and [not to] "renewable"... and learn what each means as well as the situations where it's appropriate to use the term "limited resource" (which ain't here).


nonamesleft

join:2011-11-07
Manitowoc, WI
Reviews:
·Comcast
·Callcentric
reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

My utility is not a corporation.

I'm sure it sucks to be on one that is though!

Utility's are NOT your friend, even if it isn't a large corporation. They will all find ways to milk your pocket-book.