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watermasta

@usmc.mil
reply to JB

Re: [Cataclysm] Opinion: Rogue Legendary Daggers are Fail

said by JB:

That's par for the course though, it's not any different this time around.

I was moreso bringing up the drama of legendaries, not necessarily this one in particular. Same thing happened with the two legendaries from Illidan.


saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
reply to drew
Worst idea in the world?



CpnObvious

join:2010-05-05
Alexandria, VA
kudos:3
reply to Arsinic
said by Arsinic:

I got my oranges about a month ago and now I can't bring myself to want to log in..

I think the number one criteria for a legendary recipient should be, "won't quit the game a month after they receive the item."

All four of our shadowmourne recipients quit about a month after they got 'em back in Wrath. Highly annoying.

Also, I may have to put out out a hit on the OP for commenting that they've "only" got obtained legendary.
--
"This whole thread needs more nut-punching." -Drew


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
reply to saillaw
... just choked... bad timing on the eating and reading DSLR...


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to CpnObvious
said by CpnObvious:

Also, I may have to put out out a hit on the OP for commenting that they've "only" got obtained legendary.

no can do, man... you have to be Al Sharpton/Spike Lee/or New Black Panther... and even then the OP would have to be a Zimmerman before such a hit would be socially acceptable .

it was too funny to delete. but I've redacted it for you guys


CpnObvious

join:2010-05-05
Alexandria, VA
kudos:3
Woah, woah, woah. Stop bringing current political and social events into my insular little video game world. You're harshing my escapism mellow.

Yes, I DID just say that.
--
"This whole thread needs more nut-punching." -Drew


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
yeah... i'll edit it shortly... I got the response I was looking for... but didn't expect it from the Cpn.

Arsinic

join:2011-02-17
Ruffs Dale, PA
kudos:1
reply to CpnObvious
I was always frustrated by people doing the same, but that was in a 25 man guild where there were other options than said person. Well I've been in a 10 man guild this entire xpac. We have had upto 3 rogues at any point during the xpac. 1 rogue has quit 3 times, I has quit twice and is terrible, and then there was me having played since BC release only disappearing for deployments.

I still log in for our 1 night clears, but I feel like its a chore more than I want to play. I only do it to hang out with my pals. I still top meters, and take no extra dmg. My entire guild is basically burntout. Everyone is just waiting for the next big titles. Tera/GW2/D3(eww)


CpnObvious

join:2010-05-05
Alexandria, VA
kudos:3
reply to Immer
said by Immer:

yeah... i'll edit it shortly... I got the response I was looking for... but didn't expect it from the Cpn.

I was being totally tongue-in-cheek, you winged fool of a kitten!

@Arsinic- this is the problem with getting 8/8h (or equivalent) relatively early. There's a big, "ok, so what's my goal NOW?" impulse.

Our legendary rogue contents himself with gunning for spec #1s. He's actually pulled a couple, so that's a realistic goal for him. Other folks who aren't as driven have a lot more of an issue. We've had recruit a bit to keep going, as we don't want TOO long a raiding pause before MoP- we've found if you knock off raiding too early, it's hard to get guild cohesion back quickly when the new content hits.
--
"This whole thread needs more nut-punching." -Drew


saillaw
Premium
join:2007-05-08
Dismay
kudos:2
Alt runs


CpnObvious

join:2010-05-05
Alexandria, VA
kudos:3
True story- though that's not a solution for everybody, since not everybody alts seriously. But yeah, we alt run twice a week.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to CpnObvious
said by CpnObvious:

said by Immer:

yeah... i'll edit it shortly... I got the response I was looking for... but didn't expect it from the Cpn.

I was being totally tongue-in-cheek, you winged fool of a kitten!

lol... it was off topic, which is the real reason I redacted.


Venom1

join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA

1 recommendation

reply to The0_o
1. The "rogues need to STFU" comments can stop. Players that roled rogue to get the daggers need to STFU... A real rogue knows that this was a shadowy-back-alley deal(are there any other kind for rogues?), and dont need anything else more than our performance and standings in the rogue community to make it worth being a rogue. All pretenders need to reroll a mage.

2. The event envy is horrible. EVERY legendary has been, pardon the pun, un-eventful aside from the recent staff. And even then, there have been worse looking legendaries. Everything has been hard/expensive to get at the start, then some collection or random drops. Others have just been random drops and thats it. With the change to the ammo pouch, quiver, ranged ammo, even the hunter only legendary bow looses some of it luster... the name should now be a slightly oxidized orange.

3. The quests aren't supposed to be hard... killing bosses was supposed to be. Needing to do something during the fight then get the boss kill was moderately difficult, just being online for the boss kill is not.

The real problem is the pandering to the casuals creates more epics, and more legendaries... this makes epics feel less epic and legendaries less, sorry, legen--------dary. Its a side-effect of having more people see current content, not just LFR.

TL:DR haters gonna hate; hopefully they dont re-sub.
--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.

Threatco

join:2011-04-19
Moncton, NB
reply to The0_o
Shadowmourne had tasks that made the fight SIGNIFICANTLY harder for the whole raid.

Taragosa at least had some raid tasks (fusing the gem things and fighting the tree boss). But they were too easy.

Both Cata legendary weapons are diluted by the fact that 10 man guilds can get them.

That and 25 man guilds pump them out much faster then previous legendary weapons making them very common.

Personaly, I have built every legendary since Val'Anyr while it was current on one of my raiding toons, except these rogue daggers.


lostinms
Moo

join:2001-11-29
Grenada, MS
reply to The0_o
what I hate about the daggers there is really no benefit for Mut rogues. It's like blizz is trying to force you to go combat or sub just for the daggers. Bah I got bored of my rogue after lich king had been playing him since Naxx and had been playing mut the whole time. Why change for some daggers?

Threatco

join:2011-04-19
Moncton, NB

1 edit
reply to The0_o
It should have been a feral druid staff to begin with.

And the completion should have been some sort of awesome animal kingdom wow meets lion king stuff.

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to Threatco
said by Threatco:

Personaly, I have built every legendary since Val'Anyr while it was current on one of my raiding toons, except these rogue daggers.

im still working on my Thunderfury...F*$k you second set of Bindings, you SOB.
--
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu


CpnObvious

join:2010-05-05
Alexandria, VA
kudos:3
reply to Threatco
said by Threatco:

Personaly, I have built every legendary since Val'Anyr while it was current on one of my raiding toons, except these rogue daggers.

And this is why legendaries haven't really been "legendary" since Atiesh.
--
"This whole thread needs more nut-punching." -Drew


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast

1 edit
reply to The0_o
said by Threatco:

Both Cata legendary weapons are diluted by the fact that 10 man guilds can get them.

I'm glad we moved away from legendary weapons being only available to 25m raiding guilds. I think that we should step away from the rep-grind model and find more creative ways of advancing the legendary quests. Heroic raids should have the bonus to crafting, not 25m. I'd want more tasks like the "infusions" tasks for shadowmourne. There should be skill involved all along the way... a raiding guild should have to "do something extra" from time to time to develop a legendary item. Not raw time... but performance of specific tasks.

brainstorm! Instead of the "everyone gets a goodie bag" model that I mentioned before... make a new meta Achievement with each new legendary item. These achievements cannot be accomplished without someone in the raid working on the legendary item... the completion of the meta provides a mount/pet/title, whatever. I like this plan.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

than/then | to/two/too | A lot (notice the space in there) | you/your/you're


CpnObvious

join:2010-05-05
Alexandria, VA
kudos:3
Atiesh was 40-man!

I'm actually not advocating for the high-end raid exclusivity nearly so much as I am for rarity. I'm agnostic on the means of achieving said rarity.
--
"This whole thread needs more nut-punching." -Drew


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
yeah... I meant to reply to threatco's earlier comment. your comment just served as a catalyst. any talk (QQ) of 'blizz ruined xyz because of casuals' chaffs my butt.


stvnbrs
Premium
join:2009-03-17
Cary, NC
kudos:5
reply to The0_o
With the exclusion of the glaives and bow from Sunwell, most legendary feel more of an investment of time. The raid will still need to defeat a certain boss in most cases in order to progress the phases, but really, the skill comes from the raid being able to defeat the bosses regularly and in most cases defeat the final boss.
--
I am stating my opinion. Obviously you don't like it. Honestly, I don't care.


f0rtys3ven
47

join:2011-09-01
Lansing, MI
Glaives were hands down the best.

Sexiest things in wow still IMO.

Too bad on the transmorg and the legends.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to stvnbrs
said by stvnbrs:

With the exclusion of the glaives and bow from Sunwell, most legendary feel more of an investment of time. The raid will still need to defeat a certain boss in most cases in order to progress the phases, but really, the skill comes from the raid being able to defeat the bosses regularly and in most cases defeat the final boss.

right... but that's boring. The rogue dagger line has some really cool rogue quests... separated by mind-numbing cache collection for months. I'm not saying it should be shortened per se... but the steps should be difficult... not just numbers based (gotta have 25m raids doing full clears for 3 months...).

I say, have specific tasks that complicate fights to some degree. If the legendary weapon has 3 stages... have the first be the result of an outside quest and a normal kill in the first half of the raid. Next stage should require a special kill in the latter half of the raid (not the last boss, but after the "dps check" boss that is always in there) similar to Blackhorn. Final stage should require a heroic mode early boss like Morchok. The final stage of the legendary weapon should go toward heroic progression, IMO. The time delay would be on the guild. Faster guilds, would have legendaries quicker. They could still gate it with quirky things like the 24hr CD on the decoder ring, for example.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

than/then | to/two/too | A lot (notice the space in there) | you/your/you're


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to stvnbrs
The problem is the skill required to defeat the final boss on normal mode is far below what used to be required, because Hard Modes scratch that itch now.

Legendaries really need a heroic mode component, and not just speeding up their acquisition (though that can be the case as well). Maybe you can farm the gather quest in normal mode, but the last bit should involve killing at least SOME heroic mode bosses.

I'd be game for a special, legendary only boss that is heroic mode level (e.g. you're expected to wipe on him a few times). But that probably has ridiculous levels of drama because you'll spend time "progressing on him" just to get a legendary instead of actually progressing.

At least in that case its a guaranteed drop to help the raid team.

Presumably.

/gquit


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
it's like you were reading my post as I was typing... creepy


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
reply to Immer
You can't use actual raid progression as a gating mechanism. Guilds are too good (or too dedicated) for that now. The gather quests are dull, but they at least ensure that the gatherer has to actually participate in guild raids, not get their piece and then sit until the cooldown finishes.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
said by Nick D:

You can't use actual raid progression as a gating mechanism. Guilds are too good (or too dedicated) for that now.

disagree completely. Great guilds should get their legendary faster. Combine legendary progression with a meta achievement (guild or individual) and you're golden. Don't let the legendary be completable without the first heroic kill... and that kill not being a typical strat kill... even better.

No reason you can't use raid progression as the primary gating mechanic. none. More gates could be added. If the concern is with the super-elite race to world first... just don't include the first quest at launch... introduce a teaser quest and the real quest gets released via patch. done.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

than/then | to/two/too | A lot (notice the space in there) | you/your/you're


stvnbrs
Premium
join:2009-03-17
Cary, NC
kudos:5
How about requiring them to achieve the meta for the raid instance? They are already enough to add a challenge, just make an item or a charge occur when completing them with the player having an item in their inventory? Legendary weapons are great for the user, and I liked that Blizz rewarded the guild with a companion for the efforts with the staff. That way they don't feel discarded once the legendary is aquired and the player no longer wants to participate or /gquit
--
I am stating my opinion. Obviously you don't like it. Honestly, I don't care.


Venom1

join:2011-10-21
Augusta, GA
reply to The0_o
this is all great except... who want to have the best weapon in game if all they are going to do with it is farm the instance... if you have the meta achieve, if you have the last boss on HM, then you are just farming.

The legendaries should be available at a time to help push you over a hump (second to the last boss) or as a reward for killing the last boss of the tier/expansion. Legendaries should NEVER be replaced within and expansion. NO purple should be better than an orange in the same expansion.

btw my guild is taking a break next week due to some early burnout symptoms that arose this week... week of 7 may at the earliest now... FU less drops in 10M than 25M. NO 25 man guild gave 2 daggers at once... collection drops should drop at the same rate on normal, regardless of raid size. Heroics should have a chance at more drops. Thats the fix.
--
For Rogues, by Rogues, to be used at the Rogue drive through when you order a side-order of Rogue.