World of Warcraft → Re: [Cataclysm] Opinion: Rogue Legendary Daggers are Fail

Shadowmourne had tasks that made the fight SIGNIFICANTLY harder for the whole raid.

Taragosa at least had some raid tasks (fusing the gem things and fighting the tree boss). But they were too easy.

Both Cata legendary weapons are diluted by the fact that 10 man guilds can get them.

That and 25 man guilds pump them out much faster then previous legendary weapons making them very common.

Personaly, I have built every legendary since Val'Anyr while it was current on one of my raiding toons, except these rogue daggers.

im still working on my Thunderfury...F*$k you second set of Bindings, you SOB.

And this is why legendaries haven't really been "legendary" since Atiesh.

said by Threatco:
Personaly, I have built every legendary since Val'Anyr while it was current on one of my raiding toons, except these rogue daggers.

And this is why legendaries haven't really been "legendary" since Atiesh.



I disagree a bit here. I feel I have well earned the wotlk legendaries I made. Being the first in line of a core group of 25 raiders who made good progression relative to the realm.

It's all the people after me, the 2nd 3rd 4th or w/e in line that "Dilutes it". So by the time an expansion is over their whole roster has one.

The first "batch" of legendaries indeed feel legendary. It's the ones after that which dilute it.

I feel more strongly about this then the 10 man thing. At least 10 man guilds take 250% longer to make one. But the problem with this is a 10 man guild won't complete one until just about when the next raid comes out.

I get the whole apathy towards hardcore vs casual debate. But I think we can reasonably say the legendary weapons and heroic modes are not intended for casuals. So it's not really about that. It is about how many there are, and how fast they are coming out.

To clarify, It is not so important how "long" it takes to make one. Ulduar and Firelands took about as long. But in Ulduar only 1 could be worked on at a time. You did not have 2-3 people working on different phases of the quest like you do today. They had some "minor" overlap. But nothing like it is now.

Ulduar casual 25 mans mostly made 1 Val'Anyr before ToC, Only guilds doing significant hardmodes finished a 2nd one before ToC.

How many Taragosa's did casual 25 mans make before DS came out.

By the time a 10 man finishes their first one some 25 man guilds are finishing their 4th. So even though it only took 2.5x longer then a 25 man guild to build the 1st one, the 25 man guild still made 4x as many over the expansion.

TL;DR = The real problem is that multiple people can work on the quest at the same time, which is a change from previous models. Resulting in too many legendaries.

The smaller problem is that 10 man guilds can also build them. And they picked the wrong class to give one too.

10 man guilds need the opportunity to build legendaries too. Twice in Wrath we lost a skilled raider to another raid because they wanted the legendary.

Dragonwrath was silly in the progression mode, where you could have multiple people working on one at the same time, just at different stages. Rogue daggers slowed it up ... but you never did anything with your raid to help you get the daggers other than kill the same things.

The two things need to be combined - the extra things to do in fights/extra fights that Dragonwrath entailed, and the "one at a time" of the daggers. The extra things to do can happen concurrently with a collection stage, since the items collected will be needed for the next stage as well, and if they stop dropping for that person because they're not on the next part of the chain, someone else can kickstart theirs - which isn't wanted.

Threatco, to make sure I understand your post... did you just say, "they're legendary if I get 'em, it's all the other bastards that are the problem?"

'cause that's what it sounded like.

I could certainly see where one could pull that notion from his post.

To me, his over all theme is simply that it's not the first set of legendaries that's the issue... it's how quickly the second, third and subsequent sets come. And I can agree with that. They need to stop allowing people to build them concurrently, albeit on different "steps."

if they are designed to be a mindless grind... who-the-F-cares if you have multiple grinders. The dagger quest has 2 brilliantly inspired rogue-style tasks... and then someone phoned it in with a face-peeling 6month grind.

make the quest-line difficult for the individual and the guild. tie it to progression... because that's what legendaries are for... killing the "big bad".

MoP not having a "big bad" will screw this model, though. I'm worried they will do something totally goofy with the next legendary.

If people feel that legendaries are not that legendary due to the number obtained... then I agree with restricting the collection rates to one-at-a-time.

I really don't care one way or another. I've never even been on the short list to get one.

I was our designee for Star's Fury... it just never dropped. =/ I'll admit this colors my opinion of the legendary process. We got 1 completed and 3 incomplete warglaive sets, 4 (or was it 5?) shadowmournes, and of course, we were part of the "what, somebody's getting dragonwrath AGAIN?" bonanza... hell, we even had 2 hands of Rag and 2 or 3 thunderfuries back in the day. But no Atiesh and no Star's Fury. We only ever got one val'nyr, but the guild damn near broke up during Ulduar, so that was something of a special case.

Atiesh was the pinnacle of "holy shit, you've got one of THOSE?" Monstrously difficult to obtain, epic associated quest chains, and only available in the last tier of content. Star's Fury was a poor incarnation of this- only available on the last boss of the last tier of "bonus" content, and then as a low percentage drop.

I personally think the val'nyr model was the best. Not only was it a good way to achieve the weapon, it was also available in an early tier, yet relevant for the two following tiers. You don't want a legendary crossing between expacs as a super weapon, but I have no problem with it being a status symbol *within* the entirety of its expac.

agreed, so long as the lore of the weapon fits with both the early tier AND the end of the tier. That just takes some polish and planning.