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Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

[TV] DTA-50: are you complaining about the loss of analog?

has your analog been shut down yet? are you complaining this is not fair? I want to hear from people who think they are not getting equal level of service from rogers and why. please feel free to explain in detail why you feel your getting robbed
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


plebel
Premium
join:2011-01-27
Ottawa, ON

I'm actually somewhat annoyed that Rogers didn't shut down analog on August 31st of last year to coincide with the end of (most) over-the-air analog TV broadcasts. That would have freed bandwidth for more internet capacity over their cable infrastructure and probably lessened the compression requirements for the digital channels they rebroadcast. I can understand that many people will be upset that they will no longer be able to use their VCRs, DVD recorders, etc. to schedule recordings of analog stations once that happens. The right solution to this problem is for the CRTC to mandate the use of Cable Cards in Canada like in the U.S. so that consumers can use their own devices rather than the crap hardware cable companies (especially Rogers) force upon their customers. Either that or force cable companies to broadcast in clear QAM over cable rather than allow them to encrypt their broadcasts.



yyzlhr

@rogers.com

Same here, I really thought the analogue shutdown would allow Rogers to really innovate with their Internet and TV offerings but that doesn't seem to be the case. My area isn't even digital adapter ready at the moment meaning, analogue will be around in my area even longer.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

im hearing lots of people wanna sue rogers, anyone else in the same boat and why?



sbrook
Premium,Mod
join:2001-12-14
Ottawa
kudos:13
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Paolo

What I'll object to more than the switch to digital is being charged for a digital box and a digital services fee since they will be essential for the service.

The DSF is kind of like Touch Tone fee ... at one time when touch tone WAS an added option it made sense, but now they have to add dial onto a line! Should pay more for dial!



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

im not here to educate people, but the DSF fee actually includes something like music channels, VOD, time shifting channels, access to the ipg, and what not, if u dont want to pay it, just get a DTA box instead of an STB, and continue using the EXACT SAME service you had before, even the bill will remain the same. the only way someone pays $7 more a month is if they ORDERED an additional outlet on their bill. Got it? your friend ordered an additional outlet, he is paying for it,

if he does not want the extra outlet, tell him to use the outlets that is included in his package, so if he pays for ONE OUTLET as per his package, he gets ONE DTA. not hard to understand.

--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



state
stress magnet
Premium,Mod
join:2002-02-08
Purgatory
kudos:6
reply to Paolo

(topic move) [TV] DTA-50: are you complaining about the loss of

Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 7 followups to it), has been moved offline.


Epichappy

join:2012-05-14
Kitchener, ON
reply to Paolo

Re: [TV] DTA-50: are you complaining about the loss of analog?

I am just a little upset that even though rogers is using SDV and some form of ATSC cable card authentication in their new boxes, we still can't use cable card devices on their network.

Plus the analog SDV boxes output NTSC rather than ATSC... which I am sure they are converting anyway. Why not give us this option... Because if they were not using SDV there would be no need to authorize the Cisco boxes they are shiping out to non STB customers.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

Epihappy, cable card is not 2-way. rogers sdv and rod uses 2 way.
why would rogers spend billions building a cable plant, and not offer this technology to their customers? because one customer out of 4 million wanted to use a cable card which is obsolete and dead technology
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

YEARS AGO, the original CableCard didnt have support for 2 way.

CableCard has had "tru2way" since around 2008 in America.

PS: DTA's are just clear QAM tuners for TVs that dont have them built in, the same channels can be seen with a TV with built in clear QAM tuner, no CableCard needed.


Epichappy

join:2012-05-14
Kitchener, ON
reply to Paolo

SDV is the standard for 2 way cable cards. That is how they are saving bandwidth. 1 QAM vs 60ish NTSC. However they bundle it, in the STB rather than separate it... like comcast. That way you could use the Cisco products or use Tivo or unencrypted QAM, rather that having that DTA 50 convert it back to NTSC in the box... otherwise why would it need to be authorized? Doesn't the DTA 50 do some form of SDV?


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

2 edits

Theres no CableCard/descrambling going on inside a DTA, its simply a clear QAM tuner.....
It needs to be "authorized" to program the channel lineup, and keep track of how many DTA units you have.
There is no REAL authorization or descrambling going on.

Why would a DTA output ATSC signal?
That is not logical, its purpose is to convert ATSC/clear QAM to NTSC.

If it outputted ATSC it would do absolutely nothing (ATSC to ATSC conversion????).


plebel
Premium
join:2011-01-27
Ottawa, ON
reply to Paolo

No, that's completely wrong. Cablecard IS two-way capable. This is explained clearly on the Cablecard Primer within the Cable Labs web site.

»www.cablelabs.com/opencable/prim···mer.html

There is nothing obsolete about Cablecard. The reason Rogers and the other Canadian cable companies don't offer Cablecards to their customers is because they don't have to. Unlike the U.S. where Cablecard is mandated by law, the Canadian government hasn't forced Canadian cable companies to offer it. Instead, Cable TV customers in this country are stuck using the overpriced and inferior set-top boxes and PVRs provided by their cable TV companies. Why wouldn't those companies limit their customers to purchasing their hardware at inflated prices or renting this equipment perpetually if customers have no other choice? If it was possible to use Cablecards in Canada, I have no doubt that they would be very popular. Many people, myself included, would take advantage of this technology to plug in their own PVR's, PC TV tuner cards, TiVos, etc.

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_card

Television broadcast standards are common throughout North America. The equipment used by Canadian cable TV broadcasters must be similar, if not identical, to that used by U.S. cable TV broadcasters, and should therefore be capable of using Cablecard technology at a marginal additional cost, unless there are additional licensing costs associated with its use. Perhaps someone more familiar with Canadian cable TV infrastructures can comment on this?


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

1 edit

Like I said 2 posts up, CableCard has supported 2 way since 2008....

»en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tru2way

Why Rogers doesnt support CableCard/Tru2Way:

said by Rogers/Wikipedia :

In October 2009, Rogers, one of Canada's largest cable television providers, stated they were not interested in the Tru2way platform because it is not based on open standards. Rogers stated they are considering a more Internet-oriented interactive platform.


Epichappy

join:2012-05-14
Kitchener, ON

said by the cerberus:

Like I said 2 posts up, CableCard has
Why Rogers doesnt support CableCard/Tru2Way:

I think rogers is just more interested controlling the entire experience, like with the modem router hybrids they are selling...

the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

Oh for sure.
Just look at the Live TV app for tablets, it only works if you have both Rogers internet and rogers cable tv, and also requires you are home using that internet.
LOL, mobile tv but only in your house. Oh and lets not forget you get less channels than the analog tv channel lineup.
»www.rogers.com/web/content/Live-TV



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

some cx have dta with different lineups, the reason is becaues the sistem knows they have basic cable and sends only the basic line up to their DTA-50. so yes DTA-50 need to be authorised, its not simpyl picking up the clear frequencies and passing them tru
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

You are wrong Paolo, and have no idea how a DTA works.
All the basic channels that were analog are in the clear, it is simply passing them through.
They need to be "authorized" but technically they dont descramble anything, authorization is simply for programming the channel line up and keeping track of how many DTA's you have, in technical terms this is not any form of security/real authorization.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

I never said descramble.

I said it passes the correct line up according to what you ahve on your acount, this is called AUTHORIZATION. Please go and study what authorization means. For example, if you have Basic Cable, your DTA will be AUTHORIZED with a Basic TV lineup, 2-29. me or example has full cable, so my DTA will get up to channel 130.

This has NOTHING to do with weather the signals are in the clear or not, heck who really cares its not important even if they descramble it. The point of the matter is, analog is turning off, these devices will give analog tv a new life. and they are not the same lineup, my dta will have a different lineup than yours. now end of story
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


Epichappy

join:2012-05-14
Kitchener, ON

So... would your QAM TV give you all 130 channels even if you only pay for the first 29? I don't think QAM filters exist like the analog ones? right?



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

I DONT want to use the QAM tv, There is no way they can activate stations i subscribe to with the QAM tuner in my tv, but guess what? they have a way of doing this with my STB. so i want to order italian or the mandarin station, i can watch it on my STB hapilly and not complain why i dont pick it up.
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



yyzlhr

@rogers.com
reply to Epichappy

There are no QAM filters, but for the QAM tuners that are available in TVs today to pick up any channels, those channels have to be broadcast in clear QAM. Rogers currently only broadcasts the music channels on clear QAM, so you can get those channels with a QAM TV even if you don't pay the $2.99 digital services fee to get it.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to Epichappy

no, i dont need to watch tv with the built in qam tuner, i will use my stb or dta. that way when i downgrade package, or upgrad package, the box will reflect my subscription
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!



BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile
reply to Paolo

OTA local channels should be ClearQAM. Always. There is no way Rogers is going to do this on their own, CRTC need to force them.

There are a lot of places where you have a cable connection, but your antenna signal is too weak for reliable service (I for example live in such a place, downtown TO, too many buildings around blocking signal and east facing so poor line of sight with the CN tower).

In the US people in many MSO markets have the option of just plugging their TV into the wall to get the OTA local channels with no subscription and no extra cost.

If you need to watch cable networks - sports, specialty programming, then you get a subscription and use their box. End of story. It's too expensive at this point to transition to cablecard. But it costs NOTHING extra to broadcast OTA local channels in ClearQAM.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to Epichappy

no



BliZZardX
Premium
join:2002-08-18
Toronto, ON
Reviews:
·WIND Mobile

Why did you start this thread if you're just going to tell everyone they're wrong? Mods just lock this thread, it's pointless.
--
Fiber Optics are the future of high-speed internet access. Stop by the BBR »Fiber Optic Forum.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

if u have nothing positive to contribute, then please leave this thread alone.