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alexpb1

join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON
reply to zod5000

Re: Hard Drive Deals

said by zod5000:

said by alexpb1:

The WD My Book Essentials 4TB drive is USB 3.0 and is definitely NOT 2x 2TB drives. It's a single 4TB drive.
In fact the drive inside is a Hitachi HDS5C4040ALE630 Deskstar 5K4000 (SATA 6Gb/s, 5400 RPM, 32MB cache).

I bought one of those. I had a hard time finding an internal 4tb drive that wasn't super expensive. I bought one of those externals and took it apart and took out the drive. So far its working pretty good (I put into my popcorn hour networked media tank).

Yeah, the bare drives are insanely expensive.
I would have gotten in on this 4TB deal if i had just recently (as in yesterday) purchased a 3TB Seagate from NewEgg for $109.

First thing I plan to do is rip out the drive, place it in my NAS and put an old 1TB drive in the case.

Supposedly we're to see 5TB drives introduced by WD in Q4 of 2013. So hopefully by the time I need space again 5TB drives will be on the market and they won't be ridiculously expensive.


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

Huh, considering how it's virtually impossible to find bare 5K4000 drives, getting them for $170 and shucking them is tempting...

The problem is the lack of any warranty. Expensive if they fail.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


zod5000

join:2003-10-21
Victoria, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to alexpb1

said by alexpb1:

The WD My Book Essentials 4TB drive is USB 3.0 and is definitely NOT 2x 2TB drives. It's a single 4TB drive.
In fact the drive inside is a Hitachi HDS5C4040ALE630 Deskstar 5K4000 (SATA 6Gb/s, 5400 RPM, 32MB cache).

I bought one of those. I had a hard time finding an internal 4tb drive that wasn't super expensive. I bought one of those externals and took it apart and took out the drive. So far its working pretty good (I put into my popcorn hour networked media tank).

alexpb1

join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON
reply to elwoodblues

The WD My Book Essentials 4TB drive is USB 3.0 and is definitely NOT 2x 2TB drives. It's a single 4TB drive.
In fact the drive inside is a Hitachi HDS5C4040ALE630 Deskstar 5K4000 (SATA 6Gb/s, 5400 RPM, 32MB cache).



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to elwoodblues

It's USB 3.0 and a single 4TB drive inside. It's this:

»www.storagereview.com/western_di···b_review

Very tempting price.



elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
reply to alexpb1

I USB 2 not 3, and us 2x 2tb green drives inside not a 4tb drive.
If enclosed drives are a good deal I buy them and rip the drives out . At 85 / drive it's no deal and especially if there is no warranty.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Wolfie00

said by Wolfie00:

I think, though, that we're seeing communications speeds closing the gap and though that old adage may still be true for a long time, it may not be true forever. Why? Because transfer speeds along local paths

Quit the opposite, the gap is rapidly expanding. The storage capacity of flash memory is increasing according to Moore's Law, while the amount of data you can shove through a fibre optic cable is not. 8 years passed between the standardization of 10GigE and 100GigE, where Moore's Law (24 months for pure transistor count) would have had that go from 10GigE to 160GigE over the same period.

Going back farther, we see 4 years passed between the standardization of GigE in 1998 and 10GigE in 2002, and that's more in line with Moore's Law. It would seem as though the rate of improvement is slowing.

Even on the consumer broadband front, not so much. In 1998, the fastest affordable broadband speed was 1Mbps. You would expect that to be somewhere between 128Mbps and 256Mbps today, but in practice most people are still on 5 or 6 megabit. Even those of us with faster connections rarely go beyond 50-60.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

alexpb1

join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON

1 edit
reply to elwoodblues

If you're quick, Dell.ca currently has the "WD My Book Essential 4TB USB 3.0 External Hard Drive" for $169.99 (with free shipping of course).

If you are trying to get it even cheaper, you can try to price match with Futureshop/BestBuy/MemoryExpress.

MemoryExpress will get you the cheapest price. They do price match + 25% of difference. Whereas FS/BB is PM + 10%.
So $162.49 at Memory Express.
Don't forget to mention in the comments to price match the free shipping offer too (yes Memory Express will match shipping).

Dell link:
»accessories.dell.com/sna/product···QyHeLi7A

Memory Express (for price matching Dell):
»www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX44005

Futureshop (for price matching Dell):
»www.futureshop.ca/en-CA/product/···593.aspx



Wolfie00
My dog is an elitist
Premium
join:2005-03-12
kudos:8
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."

The word "tapes" might change, but the basic truth will probably never change. Because while network connections continue to get faster, so does storage density. Replace "station wagon full of tapes" with "station wagon full of microSD cards" and you're still going to keep that up.

I think, though, that we're seeing communications speeds closing the gap and though that old adage may still be true for a long time, it may not be true forever. Why? Because transfer speeds along local paths (i.e.- the performance of an individual computer or LAN) will always have intrinsic constraints, and with suitable technology the performance of network pathways can approach the performance of local internal ones. At one time it would have been unimaginable to have interconnected computers functioning as a single entity, or to have network-attached storage, yet today it's commonplace.

Or to put it more simply, consider how long it would take you to write all that information to all those SD cards, and suddenly that station wagon doesn't look quite so hot. And that's not just limited by the performance of the cards themselves, but the unavoidable necessity of moving all that data around the computer's own internal pathways, which are effectively just a very fast local network.
--
I go and lie down where the wood drake rests in his beauty on the water, and the great heron feeds. I come into the peace of wild things who do not tax their lives with forethought of grief. For a time I rest in the grace of the world, and I am free.


Guspaz
Guspaz
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join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

"Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway."

The word "tapes" might change, but the basic truth will probably never change. Because while network connections continue to get faster, so does storage density. Replace "station wagon full of tapes" with "station wagon full of microSD cards" and you're still going to keep that up.

The rough estimate is 24 million microSD cards per station wagon. They currently top out at 64GB, which gives us 1,536,000,000 gigabytes, or 1536 petabytes (1.536 exabytes). If we assume a 1,000 KM distance to travel, at 100 KM/h, that gives us 1.536 exabytes per 10 hours, or 366.5 terabits per second.

EDIT: Note that 24 million microSD cards fits volume-wise, but at half a gram each, you're talking about carrying 12 metric tons. That may be a tad beyond the load capacity of a station wagon.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


MaynardKrebs
Heave Steve, for the good of the country
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to creed3020

said by creed3020:

This drive is 4 cents/GB, ....

Hey, that's cheaper than Bell


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

For WD? Absolutely.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

Right, so if I'm trying to stick to WD, it's a plus for those :P
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

That's because WD Black's are bloody loud to begin with, as I just pointed out.



Guspaz
Guspaz
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join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

In WD's case, it's a pretty big difference:

Green 3TB seek/idle: 29/24 dBA
Black 3TB seek/idle: 34/29 dBA

If memory serves, 7 dB indicates a doubling in pressure, so there's a pretty decent difference there, and when you've got fifteen drives, that difference can be pretty relevant.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

I've run the original Baracuda LPs and as I said I have two of the new-gen 3TB 7200 RPM Baracudas. The 7200s are actually quieter. I'd be interested to hear a side-by-side comparison between the two. The 7200 Baracuda is also a hell of a lot quieter than a WD Black.

It has been my experience that while there may be a measurable difference between noise levels on a spec sheet, the real-world result is inconsequential.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

Personally, I prefer the slower ones. My drives are going in a big NAS, and when 15 drives you reach, want loud drives you will not. I live in a one-room 360 sqft apartment, and the file server runs 24/7, so the Green drives I've got in there make a huge difference for noise.

Maybe people don't think there's that big a difference in noise for a single drive (well, my Videotron box's "SPINNING UP PARTICLE ACCELERATOR CAPTAIN!" hard drive begs differ) but when you've got 10 or 15 of them, the noise reduction (particularly the idle noise levels) starts to matter.

Also, the power too. I don't care much about the typical or idle power, because my power is included in my rent, but the startup power matters. 2.0A versus 2.5A spin-up power (what the Seagate ones report) times fifteen drives means a difference in spin-up of 360W versus 450W, so that's starting to get noticeable (I've got a 750W PSU in the system). I think the difference on the Western Digitals for the Green versus Black is bigger, but they don't report startup power.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

Fair enough. They also seem to have dropped the Baracuda name all together for that line.

What a flip-flop. They discontinued all their 5900 RPM drives saying there's no point, only to introduce a new one. Figures.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Gone

Amazon lists it as 5900 RPM in the selector:

»www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/···KIKX0DER

Which Seagate links to directly. Furthermore, the spec sheet shows lower power consumption and lower sustained transfer rates from the 4TB drive versus the 3TB by an amount that looks right for a slower spinning disk.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

Where are you seeing that the 4TB Seagate drives are 5900 RPM? The only 5900 RPM drives were the Baracuda LP and Baracuda Green. Seagate discontinued those a while back and replaced them along with the Baracuda XT with a single unified 1TB-per-platter 7200 RPM "Baracuda" line. Seagate made a big deal over the fact that the power savings achieved by a slower rotational speed simply weren't enough to justify the performance hit.

As I said, I have the 3TB drive and it is most absolutely a 7200 RPM drive. And it flies.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

2 edits
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

Use promo code CEMCXTXP37 to get anotherc100 bucks off.

That promo code only gives $50 off total. So I put 5 drives in the cart, and the promo code worked out to a 5% discount or so ($50 discount off $1024.95). And I'm still two drives short. And not sure about if they're as quiet as green drives.

EDIT: Amazon in the US has them for $192 a pop, but not in Canada.

The Seagate 4TB drives are 5900 RPM, but seagate's data sheets offer zero acoustic info. Comparing power usage, the Seagate is 5W idle 7.5W seek, while the WD 3TB greens are 5.5W idle 6W seek.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Guspaz

Use promo code CEMCXTXP37 to get another 10 bucks off.

Edit : fixed a typo


MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
reply to Guspaz

Too bad my Acer H340 is running Windows Home Server v1. I don't believe it can handle that drive.
--
Start Communications Forum



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to creed3020

said by creed3020:

Seagate STBD4000400 4TB 64MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···326-L04B

$194.99 + Free Shipping with promo code: CEMCXTXP37

This drive is 4 cents/GB, which is flat out amazing. I'm still waiting for some reputable sites to post reviews but for a lower powered, lower spindle speed, high capacity drive I'm ready to pull the trigger. Everything seems to indicate that this is what I've been waiting for, a 4TB with 1TB platters that won't break the bank.

$205 now, and 5 per customer, so no good for me :P

I'm still hoping for a good price on the eventual 4TB Reds.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to creed3020

I have the 3TB version of those drives. They're fast.



creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to elwoodblues

Seagate STBD4000400 4TB 64MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···326-L04B

$194.99 + Free Shipping with promo code: CEMCXTXP37

This drive is 4 cents/GB, which is flat out amazing. I'm still waiting for some reputable sites to post reviews but for a lower powered, lower spindle speed, high capacity drive I'm ready to pull the trigger. Everything seems to indicate that this is what I've been waiting for, a 4TB with 1TB platters that won't break the bank.



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Gami00

Yes! This is what I'm looking for.
I've read this setting can affect performance when dealing with only large (greater than 2 gigs) files.
However, I have strayed off topic, and will perhaps open a new discussion, with proper terminology.
--
~ Project Hope ~


Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to EUS

Are you talking about "sector size" when first configuring a raid set?

If i recall, this was only meant for hardware raids, but that was years ago. I don't think any newer raids (even hardware), use this setting anymore.

I remember seeing it when configuring old HP proliant DL servers in the G1/G2 generation. I don't recall seeing it anymore in the DL series G5/G6/G7 at all.

I believe the sector size thing was about how big a write a sector would be before it started a new one.. meaning if you had a file that was 5kb big being written on a file system using 4kb sectors, it would take up 2 sectors total. You would lose out on the remaining 3kb of space in the sector since it's already in use even at only 1kb.

I think a long time ago, this was important on how fast your raid system would be, but then you would also need to know what kind of files you were actually going to put on said RAID.



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Guspaz

Apologize for not remembering the terminology properly, whenever I install a 'nix distro, or add a new drive to an existing server, I choose an option of some type of file size, up to 4096.
For large multimedia files, does setting this size to a large value increase read/write performance?
--
~ Project Hope ~


alexpb1

join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON

1 edit
reply to elwoodblues

Amazon.ca has the Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Home 3TB for $108.76.

Reviews aren't that great, but if you want a cheap 3TB drive it seems pretty good, no? Most places want $130+ for a 3TB external these days and this one even has ethernet to use as a NAS.

You can take out the drive inside and place it in your own NAS setup or something.

Don't know which drive is inside however.

»www.amazon.ca/Seagate-FreeAgent-···F8&psc=1