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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

Re: Hard Drive Deals

That's because WD Black's are bloody loud to begin with, as I just pointed out.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

In WD's case, it's a pretty big difference:

Green 3TB seek/idle: 29/24 dBA
Black 3TB seek/idle: 34/29 dBA

If memory serves, 7 dB indicates a doubling in pressure, so there's a pretty decent difference there, and when you've got fifteen drives, that difference can be pretty relevant.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

I've run the original Baracuda LPs and as I said I have two of the new-gen 3TB 7200 RPM Baracudas. The 7200s are actually quieter. I'd be interested to hear a side-by-side comparison between the two. The 7200 Baracuda is also a hell of a lot quieter than a WD Black.

It has been my experience that while there may be a measurable difference between noise levels on a spec sheet, the real-world result is inconsequential.



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

Personally, I prefer the slower ones. My drives are going in a big NAS, and when 15 drives you reach, want loud drives you will not. I live in a one-room 360 sqft apartment, and the file server runs 24/7, so the Green drives I've got in there make a huge difference for noise.

Maybe people don't think there's that big a difference in noise for a single drive (well, my Videotron box's "SPINNING UP PARTICLE ACCELERATOR CAPTAIN!" hard drive begs differ) but when you've got 10 or 15 of them, the noise reduction (particularly the idle noise levels) starts to matter.

Also, the power too. I don't care much about the typical or idle power, because my power is included in my rent, but the startup power matters. 2.0A versus 2.5A spin-up power (what the Seagate ones report) times fifteen drives means a difference in spin-up of 360W versus 450W, so that's starting to get noticeable (I've got a 750W PSU in the system). I think the difference on the Western Digitals for the Green versus Black is bigger, but they don't report startup power.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

Fair enough. They also seem to have dropped the Baracuda name all together for that line.

What a flip-flop. They discontinued all their 5900 RPM drives saying there's no point, only to introduce a new one. Figures.



Guspaz
Guspaz
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join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to Gone

Amazon lists it as 5900 RPM in the selector:

»www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/···KIKX0DER

Which Seagate links to directly. Furthermore, the spec sheet shows lower power consumption and lower sustained transfer rates from the 4TB drive versus the 3TB by an amount that looks right for a slower spinning disk.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Guspaz

Where are you seeing that the 4TB Seagate drives are 5900 RPM? The only 5900 RPM drives were the Baracuda LP and Baracuda Green. Seagate discontinued those a while back and replaced them along with the Baracuda XT with a single unified 1TB-per-platter 7200 RPM "Baracuda" line. Seagate made a big deal over the fact that the power savings achieved by a slower rotational speed simply weren't enough to justify the performance hit.

As I said, I have the 3TB drive and it is most absolutely a 7200 RPM drive. And it flies.



Guspaz
Guspaz
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join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23

2 edits
reply to elwoodblues

said by elwoodblues:

Use promo code CEMCXTXP37 to get anotherc100 bucks off.

That promo code only gives $50 off total. So I put 5 drives in the cart, and the promo code worked out to a 5% discount or so ($50 discount off $1024.95). And I'm still two drives short. And not sure about if they're as quiet as green drives.

EDIT: Amazon in the US has them for $192 a pop, but not in Canada.

The Seagate 4TB drives are 5900 RPM, but seagate's data sheets offer zero acoustic info. Comparing power usage, the Seagate is 5W idle 7.5W seek, while the WD 3TB greens are 5.5W idle 6W seek.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Guspaz

Use promo code CEMCXTXP37 to get another 10 bucks off.

Edit : fixed a typo


MichelR

join:2011-07-03
Ottawa, ON
reply to Guspaz

Too bad my Acer H340 is running Windows Home Server v1. I don't believe it can handle that drive.
--
Start Communications Forum



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to creed3020

said by creed3020:

Seagate STBD4000400 4TB 64MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···326-L04B

$194.99 + Free Shipping with promo code: CEMCXTXP37

This drive is 4 cents/GB, which is flat out amazing. I'm still waiting for some reputable sites to post reviews but for a lower powered, lower spindle speed, high capacity drive I'm ready to pull the trigger. Everything seems to indicate that this is what I've been waiting for, a 4TB with 1TB platters that won't break the bank.

$205 now, and 5 per customer, so no good for me :P

I'm still hoping for a good price on the eventual 4TB Reds.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to creed3020

I have the 3TB version of those drives. They're fast.



creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to elwoodblues

Seagate STBD4000400 4TB 64MB Cache 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···326-L04B

$194.99 + Free Shipping with promo code: CEMCXTXP37

This drive is 4 cents/GB, which is flat out amazing. I'm still waiting for some reputable sites to post reviews but for a lower powered, lower spindle speed, high capacity drive I'm ready to pull the trigger. Everything seems to indicate that this is what I've been waiting for, a 4TB with 1TB platters that won't break the bank.



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Gami00

Yes! This is what I'm looking for.
I've read this setting can affect performance when dealing with only large (greater than 2 gigs) files.
However, I have strayed off topic, and will perhaps open a new discussion, with proper terminology.
--
~ Project Hope ~


Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
reply to EUS

Are you talking about "sector size" when first configuring a raid set?

If i recall, this was only meant for hardware raids, but that was years ago. I don't think any newer raids (even hardware), use this setting anymore.

I remember seeing it when configuring old HP proliant DL servers in the G1/G2 generation. I don't recall seeing it anymore in the DL series G5/G6/G7 at all.

I believe the sector size thing was about how big a write a sector would be before it started a new one.. meaning if you had a file that was 5kb big being written on a file system using 4kb sectors, it would take up 2 sectors total. You would lose out on the remaining 3kb of space in the sector since it's already in use even at only 1kb.

I think a long time ago, this was important on how fast your raid system would be, but then you would also need to know what kind of files you were actually going to put on said RAID.



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Guspaz

Apologize for not remembering the terminology properly, whenever I install a 'nix distro, or add a new drive to an existing server, I choose an option of some type of file size, up to 4096.
For large multimedia files, does setting this size to a large value increase read/write performance?
--
~ Project Hope ~


alexpb1

join:2005-06-23
Barrie, ON

1 edit
reply to elwoodblues

Amazon.ca has the Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Home 3TB for $108.76.

Reviews aren't that great, but if you want a cheap 3TB drive it seems pretty good, no? Most places want $130+ for a 3TB external these days and this one even has ethernet to use as a NAS.

You can take out the drive inside and place it in your own NAS setup or something.

Don't know which drive is inside however.

»www.amazon.ca/Seagate-FreeAgent-···F8&psc=1



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to Guspaz

said by Guspaz:

The problem is that there's no such thing as a write block... When one refers to a storage block, one is normally referring to a filesystem block.

Yes, this is true. So you are running software RAID then, since ZFS is controlling the stripe size as well. Normally on hardware RAID the controller manages it and it is set when the RAID is configured.
--
The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to elwoodblues

Seagate Barracuda 2TB - $90.00

»www.ncix.com/products/?sku=66010···oid=1292



FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to elwoodblues

Not bad for an 840 even if it isn't the Pro.

»www.ncix.com/products/?sku=77210···oid=1292

FaxCap



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

The problem is that there's no such thing as a write block... When one refers to a storage block, one is normally referring to a filesystem block.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to donoreo

Write block.



Guspaz
Guspaz
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join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

Doesn't really apply to ZFS either... Block sizes are dynamic. You can override the min/max, but there's no good reason to do so (the default minimum is 8K, which is bigger than the 4k AF block size anyhow). They would range from 8K to 1024K in powers of 2 (8K, 16K, 32K, 64K, 128K, 256K, 512K, 1024K). The stripe size is also dynamic, defined as being the block size times the number of drives (in the vdev, I think, not the zpool). In any event, except in extreme cases, you should not override ZFS' default behaviour for this sort of stuff.

The block size is determined by a few things. First, the size of the write, then if compression is enabled it will fall back to the smallest possible block size for the compressed data, and so on.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to EUS

said by EUS:

You guys with the impressive raid setups, to what size do you set your write blocks (trying to remember the proper terminology) to?
In process of setting up video server for the house, am unsure what size to set this to.
Right now I have 12 1/2 TB h-drives in a server, and have run into conflicting articles about this.

Do you mean write block or stripe size blocks?
--
The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.


EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
reply to Guspaz

Ack as Bill the Cat would say.
There seems to be many more choices with RAID these days.
--
~ Project Hope ~



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to EUS

ZFS does not use a fixed block size, so the question doesn't apply.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



EUS
Kill cancer
Premium
join:2002-09-10
canada
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to Guspaz

You guys with the impressive raid setups, to what size do you set your write blocks (trying to remember the proper terminology) to?
In process of setting up video server for the house, am unsure what size to set this to.
Right now I have 12 1/2 TB h-drives in a server, and have run into conflicting articles about this.
--
~ Project Hope ~



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

Sequential write speeds aren't all that meaningful. Random write speeds are far more important.

The Samsung 840 drives are among the fastest consumer drives on the market... or at least the 840 Pro is.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org



HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to vue666

said by vue666:

Samsung SSD 120gb - $115.00

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···7188-L0A

Pretty crappy write speeds on this one...

Sequential Read/Write Speeds 530 MB/s / 130 MB/s
--
F**K THE NHL. Go Blue Jays 2013!!!


vue666
Small block Chevys never die
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
reply to elwoodblues

Samsung SSD 120gb - $115.00

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···7188-L0A