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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues

Re: Hard Drive Deals

Because they don't need the space, and a 2.5" SSD can fit in a notebook or a desktop with a simple adapter that they usually ship with, but a 3.5" SSD will never fit in a notebook.

There was a sale on the 180GB Intel 330 that got it down to $90 (under half a buck for an Intel SSD, yikes) recently, but it's over and the price is back up to $145.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
Yeah I remember that sale, that would have been poifect. 180 would do it and the quality of those is decent.


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to Anav
said by Anav:

Oh let Faxcap dream a little LOL.

Hahaha....might be but he said their USA division has to come up
with great pricing for Black Friday to compete.

FaxCap


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to Anav
said by Anav:

Another question, probably a stewpid one. Why don't they make 3.5 inch SSD drives.

This has been answered (fits laptops and desktops), but server hard drives are this way too. SAS drives for servers are all 2.5 inch as well. It saves space and apparently power (less power to spin the smaller platters).


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
I remember the first time I saw those SAS drives was when one of our (at the time) new HP Blade servers arrived. It came without the hard drives installed. I popped open a smaller package and it contained SAS drives. At first I thought HP-Compaq made a mistake and shipped some laptop drives... LOL..


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to elwoodblues
Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

For $56.55 bucks shipped.

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···FullInfo


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
said by TOPDAWG:

Seagate Barracuda ST31000524AS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

For $56.55 bucks shipped.

»www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as···FullInfo

Too small.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
well I needed a drive like now for a build I'm doing for someone. not a bad price for the size.


Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
Newegg has drives on TODAY only (Nov 14) for 3TB for $150. They don't have a good history packaging them though.


Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
Actually anyone know if Hard Drives would be a Black Friday thing?


TOPDAWG
Premium
join:2005-04-27
Midland, ON
kudos:3
yeah you should see a few deals online. Most stores will have external drives on sale for good prices. unless you need a drive like right now I'd wait.


FaxCap

join:2002-05-25
Surrey, BC
Reviews:
·Shaw
reply to Devanchya
said by Devanchya:

Actually anyone know if Hard Drives would be a Black Friday thing?

I suspect NCIX will have a few HD/SSD loss leaders that day.

FaxCap


creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to elwoodblues
That NewEgg shell shocker for the WD RED 3TB is quite good. That is $10 less than NCIX's sale price but I continue to wait for actual Black Friday deals. I'm hoping for some deeper cuts into these inflated HDD prices. Pre-flood pricing can't come back soon enough as my HTPC and NAS both need an upgrade.


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
said by creed3020:

That NewEgg shell shocker for the WD RED 3TB is quite good. That is $10 less than NCIX's sale price but I continue to wait for actual Black Friday deals. I'm hoping for some deeper cuts into these inflated HDD prices. Pre-flood pricing can't come back soon enough as my HTPC and NAS both need an upgrade.

Sucks though that its 3 drive limit, if you want to build a larger NAS.
--



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues
That's what friends are for.

I'm waiting for a 4TB Red to become available at or near $100 :P It will be a while, so I'm hoping my existing 10x2TB can last that long.

Originally I was going to add five 3TB drives to my array, taking it from 20TB to 35TB, but then I had the idea that I can convert from raidz to raidz2 (like going from RAID-5 to RAID-6) in my next upgrade if I switch to 4TB drives and use 7 of them. My plan looks like this now:

1) Start with 10x2TB and 5xEmptySlot

2) Take 5 of 7 of the 4TB drives and put them in as a degraded 7-disk raidz2 array

3) Copy (zfs send) the data from the existing 10x2TB pool (16TB usable) to the 7x4TB pool (20TB usable)

4) Pull all the 2TB drives (they are still a consistent copy of the pool until I'm done the migration), and add the remaining 4TB drives

5) Resilver (rebuild the array). If it is successful, it means we now have a fully consistent copy of the original data and the old 10x2TB pool is no longer required. If it fails, start over from the beginning (since the 10x2TB at this point still has a consistent copy of all data).

6) Add back in 8x2TB as a second raidz2 vdev (12TB usable), throw out (or sell) the now unused 2x2TB left over

7) Add the 8x2TB raidz2 vdev to the pool with the 7x4TB raidz2 vdev (32TB usable)

8) At some point in the future, when I've run out of space again do an in-place upgrade of the 8x2TB to 8x4TB (or larger), giving me 44TB usable in total out of 60TB total (roughly three quarters usable space). With raidz1 this would be dangerous, because you have no redundancy when swapping out a disk, but with raidz2 this is safe, because you still have one parity disk while swapping a disk.

I'll lose a bit more capacity via this approach because I'll have dedicated 4 disks to parity instead of 3, but it means that any two of my disks can fail without causing me problems, and that I can do in-place upgrades without losing all redundancy, so that's worth it in the long run.

The problem with this process is it means my next upgrade step from right now is 7x4TB which is currently INSANELY EXPENSIVE.

EDIT: It should be noted that in-place upgrades with ZFS take forever, because it means you have to resilver (rebuild) your array one time per disk. So an 8x2TB -> 8x4TB upgrade would require 8 resilvers of the array, which would probably take weeks. But it's a raidz2, two drives of parity, so it's safe!
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org

Gami00

join:2010-03-11
Mississauga, ON
in your step 2,
you created 2 distinct pools right? i.e. pool1, and pool2?
which means after your done, your original Pool will now be gone and you'll be working with a new pool?

is there no way to do what you want with vdevs, to be able to keep the original pool?


Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues
Pools can be renamed, and a zfs send will maintain things like snapshots, so there isn't really any need to keep the same pool. By the end of the process the "new" pool will appear (to the user) to be identical in configuration to the old pool (except bigger by the end of the process in this case). I've already done this once before, in fact, when I got my second set of drives that were 4K instead of 512b, and they needed the ashift setting. I created a new 5-disk pool with the right ashift setting and did a zfs send, and then created a new vdev from the old drives to add them to the new pool.

ZFS has some restrictions. They are theoretically possible to solve via a feature called "block pointer rewrite", but in all these years nobody has ever implemented the feature (too much effort and not enough enterprise-level demand). One of these restrictions is that a raidz vdev cannot be expanded in terms of number of disks. If you create a 5-disk raidz vdev, it can only ever have 5 disks. You can replace the disks one by one with larger disks, and when the last one is replaced, the vdev will get the new capacity, but you can't add new disks.

A pool is a collection of vdevs. You allocate filesystems out of a pool. So if you want to add more storage capacity, you can't add disks to your vdev, but you can add another vdev to the pool.

So this is how I started. I started with 5x2TB in a single raidz vdev, and then I got another 5x2TB disks and put them in a second vdev, and then put two vdevs in the same pool, seamlessly doubling the capacity of my pool.

I could do this a third time (another 5 disks into my last remaining 5 empty hotswap bays and add it to the pool), but over time I have become worried about not having enough redundancy. raidz is like raid-5, only one disk in the vdev is parity (disks are not actually dedicated to data or parity, it's all mixed, but the concept works as a simplification).

With raidz (or raid-5), if one drive fails, your data is still OK. But then you add another disk to replace the failed one, and resilver (rebuild the array). What happens if you get a read error while resilvering? You have no redundancy, so the error is unrecoverable: data is corrupt forever. With raidz (or raid5) replacing a failed disk is a risky process. And since enlarging a vdev involves swapping the disks out one by one and resilvering, it's basically the same as replacing a failed disk, so you have that same risk.

That's why I want to have raidz2. You lose an extra disk to parity (so 2 disks of capacity in any vdev are lost, like in raid-6), but if one disk fails, your "degraded" state is basically the same as raidz (or raid-5); you still have one disk of parity, you're still redundant, and a read error in the resilvering process is recoverable.

So that's why I have come up with this plan to move from my current setup (5x2TB raidz + 5x2TB raidz in a single pool) to a new setup (7x4TB raidz2 + 8x2TB raidz2 in a single pool). My plan lets me migrate all my filesystems with all snapshots intact, and at all times during the migration I will always have at least one copy of my data intact with redundancy. It will be a lot of work, and that next upgrade will be expensive since it requires 7x4TB (I need the new pool to be large enough to store the old pool so the old disks can be basically erased and used as fresh), but it will be worth it, I hope...
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to Guspaz
said by Guspaz:

That's what friends are for.

I'm waiting for a 4TB Red to become available at or near $100 :P It will be a while, so I'm hoping my existing 10x2TB can last that long.

Are 4TB Reds coming out soon? I'd pull the trigger on 8x4TB of those for a new NAS setup... The hitachi 4TB's are too expensive and i'm looking to cut power usage from my fat server box to a more power efficient NAS.
--



Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
reply to elwoodblues
I don't think they are yet, but I'm hoping they will be (and at a reasonable price) by the time I need them. 16TB goes so fast :P

I got quite the shock the other day when I checked the smart stats on my 2TB Green drives only to find the oldest ones had half a million start/stop cycles due to intellipark, and were almost at the end of their rated lifespan... I'll try to fix that with wdidle3 at some point, but next time around I won't go with Greens. I'll go with Reds.
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
yeah i plan on putting together a 8x4TB NAS, those would be a nice fit... my 8x1TB hardware RAID5 is still chugging along, but i am getting a few more errors from those old seagate 7200.11's than I'd like...


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
Freenas?


HiVolt
Premium
join:2000-12-28
Toronto, ON
kudos:21
said by vue666:

Freenas?

No, i'd probably be going for a QNAP or Synology box.


creed3020
Premium
join:2006-04-26
Kitchener, ON
kudos:2
Reviews:
·TekSavvy Cable
reply to HiVolt
Yeah I noticed that limit after I put 4 in my shopping cart and then went WTF!

My friend is ready to pull the trigger on a Synology 4-bay and we wanted to load it up with 4 of these for a 9TB RAID5 array. It was going to serve a media/application hub for his new house, as well as remote backups for a few other locations.

The waiting game continues...

+1 btw for a 4TB drive. The 4TB WD RE is just too expensive and I really like the RE drives. I currently only use RE drives in my NAS but the need for greater capacity is outgrowing the need for performance/absolute reliability.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2

1 recommendation

reply to elwoodblues
$129.9 @ NCIX for Seagate 3TB HDs internal and external


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
Good price but I'm a little shy of Seagate because of past experiences with them... BUT I'm tempted to purchase...


vue666
Small block Chevies rule
Premium
join:2007-12-07
Halifax, NS
kudos:1
Took an inventory of my photos and I need a bigger drive so i ordered one...


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to vue666
said by vue666:

Good price but I'm a little shy of Seagate because of past experiences with them... BUT I'm tempted to purchase...

As far as I'm concerned, they're both the same, they both fail equally as much. Typically I see 1 out of 10 Seagate SAS drives fail in a year and maybe 1 out of 10 WD SATA RE's fail in a 3 year period, not sure of Seagate's enterprise SATA drives... in the desktop space, they all fail once in a while.


Devanchya
Smile
Premium
join:2003-12-09
Ajax, ON
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL
reply to elwoodblues
Sorry losing the Thread a bit here, but NCIX has WD RED 3TB drives for sale until Nov 22, 2012 for $159 each.

Looks like they are planning a Black Friday sale on them after...
--
»www.codecipher.com - Marking the way to tomorrow's solutions -- Did you know that Perl is not Dead? »perlisalive.org/


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
urghhhhhhh I just bought some 3TB green's for low cost RAID, now you tell me.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
Canada Computers had 3TB Seagates on sale for $129 the other day. Not sure if it's still valid or not. I picked one up. I'm going to pick up another three in a couple of weeks to start my RAID5 server.
--
Tom