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milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2

1 edit
reply to Guspaz

Re: Hard Drive Deals

"Who the heck needs 4 TB of storage space?"

(six months later)

"I'M RUNNING OUT OF SPACE! AGAIN!!!"



BTW, 2TB Seagate Barracuda, $69 at Newegg.ca. Limit 3 per customer. »www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.as ··· 22148834
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Watch my future television channel's public test broadcast!
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Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to elwoodblues
Just passed by the Scarborough Canada Computers and there's a modest line out front.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
There's over 100 people lined up at the Mississauga location. I went to Tigerdirect instead and got an Intel 330 256gb drive for $159-30mir.
--
Tom

GoRaptors

join:2011-07-22
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues
Any good SSD deals for $50 to $60? All I can afford at the moment!

Came across this at newegg:

»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 20171667

Thanks in advance! Super appreciated! :P! !
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Guspaz
Guspaz
Premium,MVM
join:2001-11-05
Montreal, QC
kudos:23
said by GoRaptors:

Any good SSD deals for $50 to $60? All I can afford at the moment!

Came across this at newegg:

»www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ··· 20171667

Thanks in advance! Super appreciated! :P! !

That's just not worth it. And keep in mind that isn't an SSD, it's a caching solution. If you try to treat it like an SSD, that is three times the cost per gig of the Intel drives. If you can't afford something larger now, you should just save up until you can afford more. These things go on sale on days other than just black friday!

Example: spend $50 for 32GB today, or $90 for 180GB a month from now!
--
Developer: Tomato/MLPPP, Linux/MLPPP, etc »fixppp.org


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
Those cache drives are actually 64GB or 128GB physical drives with 100% overprivisioning due to the constant writes that occur. This is why they are pricey for their size.

Now, having said that, if it uses Dataplex (which it most likely does) it will work quite well as a cache drive and give SSD-like performance out of a magnetic disk.

GoRaptors

join:2011-07-22
London, ON
reply to elwoodblues
I can wait until boxing day I suppose.

But again if you guys see a good deal for $60 let me know asap please! xD! ! Greatly appreciated & Super thanks in advance! :P! !

I don't know about these things at all so relying on others knowledge!
--
»tinyurl.com/83jhmnc ---> Please comment! Switch from Rogers Prepaid to Wind Mobile?

»tinyurl.com/6pfywwp ---> Please comment! Rogers/Distributel Nightmare!


Kitlope

join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab
reply to elwoodblues
3 TB Seagate drives on for $89.99 at Memory Express over the Black Friday weekend. Picked up 2 of them

»www.memoryexpress.com/Products/M ··· /MX36849


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
reply to elwoodblues
How did you pick2 of them up. they are limited to one per customer?
Out of stock now anyway.


Kitlope

join:2004-07-29
Edmonton, Ab
I asked the guy behind the desk nicely if he would sell me 2 and he did.

Saved me from having to go back today.


Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
Oh okay, on site, is much different from online. Of course and your charming to boot.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to elwoodblues
Does anybody know if you can use a Western Digital Red drive in a desktop computer? My machines are running 24 hours per day with mostly low demands, and I need something that can run properly under such an environment.

I currently have a 1 TB Hitachi Deskstar which is almost full, and has been running for 5 years now. Apparently, Hitachi had built their Deskstar line to run 24 hours. Unfortunately, Hitachi's 2 TB drive seems to be out of stock everywhere, and discontinued.
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
I saw 2TB WD reds on sale maybe new egg, around $119 or so??


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
Yes, I saw that one. But can you use it in a desktop system? All the literature and review sites talk about the drive's NAS capabilities (its primary use), but not a word if you can use it as a mass storage drive in a PC (my OS drive will be a SSD).
--
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Anav
Sarcastic Llama? Naw, Just Acerbic
Premium
join:2001-07-16
Dartmouth, NS
kudos:5
Good question what is the diff between green blue red black anyway......??

»wdc.custhelp.com/app/answers/det ··· and-raid

From other forums...
If you are looking for the fastest drives in a workstation, I would stick to the Black drive.

Blue are for Solid performance and reliability for everyday computing.

Green are for Cool, quiet operation for efficient eco-conscious computing.

Black are for Maximum performance for power computing.

Red are for 24x7 operating environment and demanding system requirements of home and small office NAS.
--
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LlamaWorks Equipment


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
A Red is just a Green with TLER enabled for RAID 5. They work fine in desktop systems.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
Not quite. The Reds have a MTBF rate of a million hours, and are made to run 24/7. WD DOESN'T recommend running the Greens 24/7! Or the Blues for that matter. Haven't found anything negative on the Blacks.

As for running a Red in a desktop system, have you or someone you know actually tried this?
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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
The MTBF of the Green is 300,000 hours, which is still over 34 years of 24/7 operation. WD may say not to use a Green for 24/7 operation, but that doesn't mean it won't work and it doesn't mean they won't honour your warranty if you do. The Red is similar to the AV-GP, which in of itself is a very minor variation of the Green, particularly in the area of vibration dampening.

And seriously dude, ask yourself - why couldn't you run a Red in a desktop? That should answer your question. Sure, they have TLER, but so do other high-end drives you can run in a workstation as a single drive (e.g. the Raptor). I see no reason why it wouldn't work.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
I don't want to guess with this. I need confirmation from someone who's actually tried it.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
This isn't a guess, this is basic understanding of hard drives. It makes no difference. If your hard drive suffers a read error in single drive mode that basic CRC correction in the OS can't fix you're already up shit creek as far as the data is concerned and should be replacing the drive anyway. TLER at that point becomes redundant, because all it does is give the RAID controller - which you won't have - the chance to try and fix it instead of the drive repeatedly retrying.

You've most likely owned hard drives in the past that had TLER enabled and didn't even know it. So seriously, quit you're worrying and buy the damn drive!


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
reply to milnoc
said by milnoc:

I don't want to guess with this. I need confirmation from someone who's actually tried it.

Just throw 2 of them in RAID 1 if it bugs you.


Dones

join:2008-02-14
Toronto, ON
reply to elwoodblues
God damn it. My hard drive just failed and now I found out that I've missed the 3TB drive for 89.99. Should I even bother walking into a Canada computers?


Last Parade

join:2002-10-07
Port Colborne, ON
said by Dones:

God damn it. My hard drive just failed and now I found out that I've missed the 3TB drive for 89.99. Should I even bother walking into a Canada computers?

I was told that even though their stock indicated they had 1-2 drives by 6pm on Black Friday, they had been working from their "local server" all day and most stores ran out by 11am on Friday.


TLS2000
Crazy Canuck
Premium
join:2004-02-24
Mississauga, ON
That wouldn't surprise me. The line up at the Mississauga store was huge.
--
Tom


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
reply to Last Parade
said by Last Parade:

Just throw 2 of them in RAID 1 if it bugs you.

Shuttle case. No more room left once I add the SSD.
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Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to Last Parade
said by Last Parade:

Just throw 2 of them in RAID 1 if it bugs you.

TLER on software/firmware RAID - which is like 90% of the RAID out there, including cheap add-in cads and anything integrated onto a motherboard - is just as redundant as it is in a single drive configuration. Not only that, but most NAS devices use software raid at some level, usually md or something like that, which is equally as redundant. TLER becomes important with dedicated RAID 5 controllers, meaning that you'll probably end up seeing Dell rate these drives for use in Poweredge servers and stuff like that.

I really don't know why people are freaking out about using these Reds in a desktop. They're nothing more than a WD Green (or AV-GP, depending on who you ask) that's been hardened in a fashion similar to the RE4. For 90% of the people out there, there's no advantage to the Red over the Green - including in NAS boxes - other than them being quieter and better power optimizations (I don't buy the vibration claims, but whatever), but that doesn't mean you can't use one in place of a Green on a desktop, and in fact if they were the same price the Red would be the better drive to get.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by Gone:

For 90% of the people out there, there's no advantage to the Red over the Green - including in NAS boxes - other than them being quieter and better power optimizations

Red's are faster too, Red 145 MB/s vs. Green 123 MB/s.

Red's claim 1,000,000 MTBF and 24x7 uptime, while Green's are not posted and no idea if the uptime works out just the same.

No idea if that validates or invalidates what you're saying, just did some investigating as I was curious if there were differences or not.

I might be against the grain concerning TLER as I prefer to leave it enabled on hardware RAID. I want a drive to drop out if it suggests it has an issue so I can take it out and check it before it wipes out an array. After many, many years of dealing with broken RAID5 arrays, I've learned that a flaky drive can obliterate the data on an array as it works/doesn't work while TLER (or increasing a controller's sensitivity to drive issue) alerts you before you experience the problem. Philosophical debate but my rationale has lead to positive experiences with drive removals in advance of failure.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
The Reds are faster because they use the 1TB platters. So are the Blues. The Greens and the Blacks are still using 500GB. Once Greens get the higher density platters their performance will most likely increase to something identical to what the Reds are getting now, and the Blacks will blow anything else on the market out of the water. MTBF on the Greens are 300,000 hours, which is still a lot of freakin hours, more than 30 years as I said earlier.

And yeah, your point about TLER is perfectly valid and you are by no means unique in that school of thought. All these people going goo goo gaa gaa over TLER don't realize that it's not all a bed of roses, and that when they throw it into whatever consumer NAS appliance they've purchased thinking they're getting real RAID they're most likely not, and that TLER in that situation will be completely and totally redundant anyway. The silly thing is that there is no official way to disable TLER on the Red, and that it's a bit of a kludge to actually get it fully disabled. Stupid move on the part of WD if you ask me.

All in all, the Red is a brilliant marketing move on the part of WD.


milnoc

join:2001-03-05
H3B
kudos:2
A quote from the following link (emphasis is mine):

»www.anandtech.com/show/6157/west ··· remium/2

quote:
Western Digital has well-defined product categories for each market segment. The WD Black series caters to those requiring a lot of performance without power concerns. The Green series serves the opposite end of the spectrum, where performance is not that much of an issue (secondary drives for PCs / external enclosures), but heat and power could do with some reduction. The Blue series served the middle tier (everyday computing with optimal performance) and the notebook market. However, none of these models are recommended by WD for 24x7 operation (which happens to be an essential requirement for almost all NAS systems). Till now, none of the HDD vendors have anything specific for SMB / SOHO NAS systems. WD aims to capture this segment of the market with the WD Red lineup.
The MTBF for the Green drives only applies if the drive is used according to the manufacturer's recommended usage. For the Greens, that means non-24/7 usage.

The same link also shows how to change the TLER setting on the drive, or turn it off altogether. But along with knowing if the Reds can be used in a desktop system, I would also like to know what are the optimum settings for the intended usage.

Of course, this doesn't mean the drive won't fail in a few years. But it would be nice to get the drive working properly as soon as I get it so that I don't spend countless hours doing "trial and error" work just to get the bloody thing working in the first place.

Gone, do you understand why I ask these questions and prefer answers that are slightly more than a sentence long and backed by proper evidence? I'd rather spend my time earning money working for my clients than earning nothing working on vague hunches.
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urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
I'd like to know why WD, Qnap and a few other companies claim the Red drives are 'more compatible' than Green, Blue, or Black drives in NAS devices unless that's marketing speak for the reasons Gone outlined above.

There may be additional firmware adjustments to the Red drives as I've seen people have issues with WD's other drive series in NAS bays, which is what I interpreted as the reason for the Red line. WD had a reputation for NAS incompatibility for some time.

On a personal level, I've used Green 3TB's in RAID5 configurations in my home servers for a few years now, without issue. Specifically the WD30EZRX x 20 drives (14 for two years, recently added 6 more). I haven't used wdidle as I don't mind the heads parking when I'm not using the system.

One of my RE's failed after about 3 years in a 6 drive set, WD1002FBYS specifically. Well, it didn't outright fail but one of them is causing the array to go offline... migrating data as we speak so I can low level format then MHDD them, figure out which one's misbehaving.