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EnasYorl
Thieves World

join:2001-12-02
West
Reviews:
·Anveo
reply to Oh_No

Re: Gotta love this

said by Oh_No:

You can argue it both ways and our "lack of technology knowledge" officials have no idea what it all means.

Yes Comcast is giving priority to the intranet service over internet service. Now is that against network neutrality for the internet, obviously no.
But if throwing this in the face of our knowledgeless elected officials actually gets all bandwidth caps banned then I am all for it.
Caps should never be allowed, we got rid of them in 1995 and companies are trying force them back on us.

So you have to ask yourself the Internet is really just a bunch of Private ISP networks that tie their networks together at Peering Routers. »www.bgp4.as/internet-exchanges

So is the only true part of the internet the piece of fiber between the two ISP's peering routers as the old government ArpaNET »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arpan···1977.png isn't the main backbone anymore. It's the Level 3, AT&T, etc that have some of the larger pieces.

Someone needs to clearing define where does the Internet reside?

Until that is resolved we can talk about this forever.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44
Define where the internet resides? LOL?
It already has been resolved so you cant talk about it forever.
Here is the gist of it for you:
Internet is public (can be accessed outside of your network), intranet is private (can only be accessed on your network).

When you have a public accessible IP and can access public IPs you are on the internet regardless of what network you are on.
If you have a private ip and only have access to private IPs than you are not on the internet, but on an intranet.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


EnasYorl
Thieves World

join:2001-12-02
West
Reviews:
·Anveo

1 edit
said by r81984:

Define where the internet resides? LOL?
It already has been resolved so you cant talk about it forever.
Here is the gist of it for you:
Internet is public (can be accessed outside of your network), intranet is private (can only be accessed on your network).

When you have a public accessible IP and can access public IPs you are on the internet regardless of what network you are on.
If you have a private ip and only have access to private IPs than you are not on the internet, but on an intranet.

That was the whole point. The Xbox is using a Public IP address to get Private video.

Your post was so great I laughed out loud.

Or wait does Comcast own that IP address that everyone can reach the XBOX with? hmmm.. Standing on quicksand? ICANN (»www.icann.org/) do IT!

The actual network isn't defined by IP address space.

The Network is defined by who owns the Layer 1 medium (Fiber or Coax or Copper lines to the Subscriber) as well as the Layer 1/2 equipment such as DSLAMs, CMTS, eswitches, SONET, DWDM gear as well as the Layer 3 Routers that are routing all these packets.

That is Comcast point as well as mine. If the Public IP address you have sends a packet across the entire country but never leaves Comcast network are you on the Internet even though both Source and Destinations are Public IP's?

Or what if you packet doesn't leave any of Comcast links to a peering point but it does go thru say a Level 3 router from blade to blade. Is that considered the Internet as it wasn't Comcast's router?

That was my point. You can never get a clear demarcation.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13
Hazelwood, MO
You are attempting to make this much more complicated then it is and I believe you are doing it just to be a PITA.

The physical owner of the network components are irrelevant, you trying to make them relevant is just silly. The internet consist all mediums that interconnect.

And yes, the actual internet is defined by IP address space as no device can be a part of the network without a publicly routable address connecting it and every device that has a publicly routable address is a part of the network as is every device that is connecting to that connected device.

So yes, the computer or smartphone you are one right now is a part of the internet no matter how many firewalls you are behind.


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44

1 edit
reply to EnasYorl
said by EnasYorl:

said by r81984:

Define where the internet resides? LOL?
It already has been resolved so you cant talk about it forever.
Here is the gist of it for you:
Internet is public (can be accessed outside of your network), intranet is private (can only be accessed on your network).

When you have a public accessible IP and can access public IPs you are on the internet regardless of what network you are on.
If you have a private ip and only have access to private IPs than you are not on the internet, but on an intranet.

That was the whole point. The Xbox is using a Public IP address to get Private video.

Your post was so great I laughed out loud.

Your lack of understanding how networks and the internet works is laughable.
I am trying to give the simplest definition so you can understand, but it obviously was not simple enough for you to understand.

said by EnasYorl:

Or wait does Comcast own that IP address that everyone can reach the XBOX with? hmmm.. Standing on quicksand? ICANN (»www.icann.org/) do IT!

Your xbox is going to get a public or at least an internet accessible ip address just like any other computer on your network or just share one internet IP on your router.
But the xbox comcast is going to route all data for the xbox on demand app through a different docsis channel or unused docsis space @ their modem to their private intranet ondemand servers.
Your xbox comcast ondemand traffic only works on the private network through their modem not the internet.
said by EnasYorl:

The actual network isn't defined by IP address space.

The Network is defined by who owns the Layer 1 medium (Fiber or Coax or Copper lines to the Subscriber) as well as the Layer 1/2 equipment such as DSLAMs, CMTS, eswitches, SONET, DWDM gear as well as the Layer 3 Routers that are routing all these packets.

Who owns the network means nothing.
How the network is setup virtually decides if it is internet or intranet.
Your device can be both on the internet and intranet with certain data limited to each network.

said by EnasYorl:

That is Comcast point as well as mine. If the Public IP address you have sends a packet across the entire country but never leaves Comcast network are you on the Internet even though both Source and Destinations are Public IP's?

Or what if you packet doesn't leave any of Comcast links to a peering point but it does go thru say a Level 3 router from blade to blade. Is that considered the Internet as it wasn't Comcast's router?

That was my point. You can never get a clear demarcation.

Comcast is not arguing that.
Many times you could be using the internet and what you are doing is hosted by the same company as your ISP, so sure you never leave the ISPs owned network, but you are still on the internet as you are on a publically accessible side of the ISPs network and the data shares the "internet" bandwidth.

For comcast the Xbox traffic is all internet traffic. The Xbox comcast ondemand traffic is all private, not internet accessible traffic that does not even share your "internet" bandwidth.
You can max out your xbox ondemand traffic and it will have no affect on your available internet bandwidth as they are not even on a shared connection.
The xbox ondemand app does not compete with any internet service as it can only be used on comcasts private intranet that can only be reached with a comcast modem on their network.

If people want dictate fairness of how much backbone a company allocates for their private network and how much for the internet then we must separate all ISPs from content providers.
That way all content will only be accessible over the internet and all ISPs will have to treat all data equal.

I do see a day when ISPs will be broken up from content providers.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


EnasYorl
Thieves World

join:2001-12-02
West
Reviews:
·Anveo
1. Your wrong Comcast doesn't route the traffic to a Xbox on a different DOCSIS channel as XBOX supports 802.3 and some 802.11n/g. You a completely ignorant to Layer 2 DOCSIS MAC DOMAIN and it shows. Start around page 32 to educate yourself »www.cablelabs.com/specifications···0210.pdf

2. Who owns the network means everything that is what the debate is about. Companies spend Millions upon Millions in building up their own networks and they are not about to let anyone push traffic across it for free that is what peering costs are all about.

3. Xbox doesn't have a DOCSIS modem built into and it doesnt' support VLAN tagging. So it only has one MAC domain to the router or Cable modem and the DOCSIS modem isn't parsing Private or Internet traffic, it's all on the same Layer 2 DOCSIS MAC layer.

You are still cracking me up trying to convince everyone your understand something you clearly have never worked around and are clearly a DSL user to boot.

Rest my case »Comcast to Raise Caps, Start Charging Overage Fees


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
Reviews:
·row44
Stop trying to act like you know what you are talking about and stop lying.
You are the only one trying to argue that traffic that does not leave your network does not count as the internet even when it is on a publically accessible network with routable ips. Comcast is not arguing that.
Hell you dont even know the different from an intranet and internet. You admit you have no idea what is the internet.

Why would you think an xbox has a docsis modem built in to bring bring that up? No one claimed this but you.

Cant you read the article???
Comcast is using extra bandwidth on the docsis channel not used for internet to route the xbox comcast on demand app traffic using service flow settings to their router which keeps the xbox app traffic on their private not internet accessible network.
It stays segregated on a private network and not the internet or any publically accessible network.

Its like you just want to argue for the sake of it.

The only way to stop a company from limiting how much of their network they use for internet and intranet is to separate content providers and isps.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.


EnasYorl
Thieves World

join:2001-12-02
West
Reviews:
·Anveo
said by r81984:

S

Why would you think an xbox has a docsis modem built in to bring bring that up? No one claimed this but you.

»Re: Gotta love this
Your xbox is going to get a public or at least an internet accessible ip address just like any other computer on your network or just share one internet IP on your router.
But the xbox comcast is going to route all data for the xbox on demand app through a different docsis channel or unused docsis space @ their modem to their private intranet ondemand servers.
Your xbox comcast ondemand traffic only works on the private network through their modem not the internet.
 

You claimed it private MAC Layer to DOCSIS modem then onto XBOX.

It's not the way the network works. Bone up on your education.

I'm not lying just pointing out you don't know what you're talking about. As you are just Trolling.

I'm well aware of how the Internet is built.

Do some reading »www.bgp4.as/internet-exchanges


r81984
Fair and Balanced
Premium
join:2001-11-14
Katy, TX
See you just made things up as that is not what that quote says.
LOL

Have fun with your xbox with its built in docsis modem.
--
...brought to you by Carl's Jr.