elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
[Rant] Kirpans allowed in Ontario CourtsBloody Human Rights commission has dropped another questionable decision on the public. Skikh's will now be allowed to bring thier ceremonial daggers into Ontario Courtrooms. Sikhs will now be allowed to bring their ceremonial daggers into Toronto courthouses following a landmark settlement between the Ontario Human Rights Commission and three law enforcement bodies.
The Toronto Police Service, Toronto Police Services Board and the Ministry of the Attorney General have reached a watershed settlement with the OHRC that will allow those of the Sikh faith to carry kirpans into all public areas of the citys courthouses. Apparently there were 2, count'em 2 complaints since 2006, and now in the name of "religious freedom" they get to bring weapons into court, while the rest of us would be hung from the rafters if we tried to bring in a "ceremonial" weapon in with us. » www.thestar.com/news/cri ··· rthouses |
actions · 2012-May-17 10:34 am · (locked) |
eksterHi there Premium Member join:2010-07-16 Sainte-Anne-De-Bellevue, QC |
ekster
Premium Member
2012-May-17 10:40 am
Time to complain so I could bring pasta to court in order to honour His holiest noodle appendage. |
actions · 2012-May-17 10:40 am · (locked) |
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to elwoodblues
Tolerance must be a very, very, scarey thing to some people. As is shown time and time again in this forum. |
actions · 2012-May-17 10:55 am · (locked) |
HiVolt Premium Member join:2000-12-28 Toronto, ON |
to elwoodblues
Keep giving them an inch, they'll keep taking an arm...
This makes me wonder... I'm sure there are Sikh prisoners. Are they allowed to walk around with a dagger? I bet they aren't. |
actions · 2012-May-17 10:58 am · (locked) |
elwoodbluesElwood Blues Premium Member join:2006-08-30 Somewhere in |
to observing
said by observing :Tolerance must be a very, very, scarey thing to some people. As is shown time and time again in this forum. This is Canada, not India, you want to practice your religion, no problem, do it a home or your place of worship, not my F'n Courts. |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:06 am · (locked) |
HiVolt Premium Member join:2000-12-28 Toronto, ON |
HiVolt
Premium Member
2012-May-17 11:22 am
said by elwoodblues:This is Canada, not India, you want to practice your religion, no problem, do it a home or your place of worship, not my F'n Courts. LOL. Next thing they'll want to bring a ceremonial bomb into the courtroom. yanno, because that's how they settle their thousand year old religious disputes. |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:22 am · (locked) |
Pauly join:2004-05-29 canada |
Pauly
Member
2012-May-17 11:27 am
I wish i could bring my pasta into the courts too. im gonna take this to the top of the supreme court of canada. |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:27 am · (locked) |
pnjunctionTeksavvy Extreme Premium Member join:2008-01-24 Toronto, ON |
to elwoodblues
Well, at least until someone gets stabbed with one anyways. |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:31 am · (locked) |
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to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:said by observing :Tolerance must be a very, very, scarey thing to some people. As is shown time and time again in this forum. This is Canada, not India, you want to practice your religion, no problem, do it a home or your place of worship, not my F'n Courts. I wasn't aware tolerance wasn't preached in Canada. Nor did I know your court is not their court as well. Should we have separate courts? I find this topic... hmm.. telling. |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:34 am · (locked) |
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to elwoodblues
And you all must be native Canadians huh? Oh oh, did your parents or their great great grand parents immigrated here as well, just like the Sikhs or any other?!
Fun hearing "My Canada" when you aren't even the natives of this country and your family immigrated here. |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:34 am · (locked) |
LazMan Premium Member join:2003-03-26 Beverly Hills, CA |
to pnjunction
said by pnjunction:Well, at least until someone gets stabbed with one anyways. Happened at a school in Quebec a couple of years ago - a Sikh student (13 or so, I believe) pulled his Kirpan and threatened another student. A fixed blade over 5" is (generally) accepted as a weapon. A concealed weapon is illeagal in Canada. Therefore, a Kirpan (a fixed blade from 5" to 3', worn under the clothes) would be agaisnt the law, if it wasn't called a Kirpan... Nothing against religion - but at some point, the inmates have to stop running the asylum. What's next? Ceremonial guns? Wear the kirpan at home, or during religious ceremonies - but walking around with a concealed weapon is wrong, and against Canadian law, no matter what you call that weapon... |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:41 am · (locked) |
HiVolt Premium Member join:2000-12-28 Toronto, ON |
HiVolt
Premium Member
2012-May-17 11:48 am
I remember many years there was some debate that the kirpan is purely ceremonial and does not need to be "functional", ie it can be "sown in" to the sheath so it can't be removed.
If it can't be removed from the sheath then its fine. Carry it. Its useless as a weapon.
If you need to remove it for any reason in public, it should be considered a weapon as you sure aren't participating in any religious ceremony. |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:48 am · (locked) |
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to Bosty
said by Bosty :And you all must be native Canadians huh? Oh oh, did your parents or their great great grand parents immigrated here as well, just like the Sikhs or any other?!
Fun hearing "My Canada" when you aren't even the natives of this country and your family immigrated here. Sorry, when my family immigrated to Canada they didn't bring some sort of notion that the rules of their old country applied in their new country, they ASSIMILATED (I.e. they didn't try to keep speaking Polish or Slovak, they gave up eating many of their culturally traditional foods, they didn't try to bring their laws with them)!!!! It's called "Don't immigrate to Canada if you want the laws and lifestyle of India or some other country - STAY THERE! - but if you want to live a Canadian lifestyle with Canadian laws and cultures, by all means GET YER ASS OVER HERE! We need more educated, hard working, willing to be Canadians." |
actions · 2012-May-17 11:51 am · (locked) |
A Lurkerthat's Ms Lurker btw Premium Member join:2007-10-27 Wellington N |
to observing
said by observing :Tolerance must be a very, very, scarey thing to some people. As is shown time and time again in this forum. Although the comments may be slightly heated, it's not really about tolerance. Court cases can become heated, and general practice is that only court officers should be armed. It's a safety issue for everyone in the courtroom. I've said in the past that we're all immigrants (even technically the native americans, just longer back). To some extent though becoming a member of an established society means playing by the rules. We have some immigrant cultures that consider killing people an acceptable response to adultery. That isn't allowed in our culture, so they need to live by that rule, or return to a country that accepts it. To some extent the dagger issue is the same. Carrying items that are weapons into a courtroom is prohibited, exceptions shouldn't be made. I have a ruler on my desk and 10cm isn't a large blade but I'm sure it could do some damage. So I'm sorry, but I think they made the wrong call. |
actions · 2012-May-17 12:06 pm · (locked) |
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-May-17 12:10 pm
said by A Lurker:Although the comments may be slightly heated, it's not really about tolerance. Court cases can become heated, and general practice is that only court officers should be armed. It's a safety issue for everyone in the courtroom. Do you really want a group that went around killing each other over tables and chairs to be in a court room armed with a blade? |
actions · 2012-May-17 12:10 pm · (locked) |
vue666 (banned)Let's make Canchat better!!! join:2007-12-07 |
vue666 (banned)
Member
2012-May-17 12:16 pm
Well meaning, bleeding heart liberals are ruining our country.... |
actions · 2012-May-17 12:16 pm · (locked) |
El QuintronCancel Culture Ambassador Premium Member join:2008-04-28 Tronna |
to HiVolt
said by HiVolt:I remember many years there was some debate that the kirpan is purely ceremonial and does not need to be "functional", ie it can be "sown in" to the sheath so it can't be removed.
If it can't be removed from the sheath then its fine. Carry it. Its useless as a weapon.
If you need to remove it for any reason in public, it should be considered a weapon as you sure aren't participating in any religious ceremony. I seem to recall that's how they became allowed in schools. They could bring them, but they had to be sown in. Which is fine at that point because it's about as offensive as a crucifix, but can't be used as a weapon. |
actions · 2012-May-17 12:28 pm · (locked) |
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to Gone
said by Gone:said by A Lurker:Although the comments may be slightly heated, it's not really about tolerance. Court cases can become heated, and general practice is that only court officers should be armed. It's a safety issue for everyone in the courtroom. Do you really want a group that went around killing each other over tables and chairs to be in a court room armed with a blade? I like this as a matter of principal. I had to empty my pockets, got metal detected, then metal detected again just to get into the court. |
actions · 2012-May-17 1:24 pm · (locked) |
Pauly join:2004-05-29 canada |
Pauly
Member
2012-May-17 1:26 pm
i can see what will happen now, people will use kirpins instead of pocket nives to rob people, and wwhen police search them they wotn be deemed as a weapon, and it will be considered a religious piece of equipmetn thus no criminal charges will stick. where do i line up to get my kirpin |
actions · 2012-May-17 1:26 pm · (locked) |
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to observing
said by observing :I wasn't aware tolerance wasn't preached in Canada. It is preached, immediately visible on the Canadian government web page that welcomes potential visitors to Canada. |
actions · 2012-May-17 1:57 pm · (locked) |
GuspazGuspaz MVM join:2001-11-05 Montreal, QC |
to elwoodblues
We've been down this road already, when a kid got kicked out of school in 2001 in Quebec for carrying a Kirpan... The case eventually went to the Supreme Court of Canada, who ruled unanimously in 2006 that the school ban on kirpans was unconstitutional. I don't see how replacing "school" with "court" changes anything...
Agree with the decision or not, we settled this issue 6 years ago. |
actions · 2012-May-17 3:53 pm · (locked) |
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-May-17 4:09 pm
said by Guspaz:I don't see how replacing "school" with "court" changes anything ... uh, seriously? It's a huge freaking massive difference is what it is. A courthouse, for one thing, is something protected under the Public Works Protection Act in Ontario - you know, the 'Secret G20 law' and all that stuff. It is considered a secure area and anyone entering it is subject to search. You walk through metal detectors before entering them and the police search you. And it's for good reason - things happen in a courtroom that make otherwise very peaceful people very angry to the point where they could react violently. The last thing you want anyone to have is something that could be used as a weapon - be it a metal pipe, a chair (hah!) or a kirpan. While a school is certainly an area you don't want weapons, it is in no way shape or form the same kind of environment, and an attempt to draw a parallel between the two is foolish. |
actions · 2012-May-17 4:09 pm · (locked) |
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differentEEK to Gone
Anon
2012-May-17 8:48 pm
to Gone
Re: [Rant] Kirpans allowed in Ontario Courtssaid by Gone:[The last thing you want anyone to have is something that could be used as a weapon - be it a metal pipe, a chair (hah!) or a kirpan. What about a star of David. I could likely stab your jugular with that pointy thing. I could take a cross hanging off your neck, put the cross part between my finders and use the bottom of the cross as a stabbing object to take out your eye and hopefully reach your brain if the cross is big enough. I could use one of those Muslim head dresses to wrap it around someones neck. One solution. Everyone should go naked because some people are ruled by fear. Because we all know if you aren't born here, then we need to be like America and assimilate everyone as we see fit and to our liking so that we can no longer be afraid of things that are different. |
actions · 2012-May-17 8:48 pm · (locked) |
Gone Premium Member join:2011-01-24 Fort Erie, ON 1 edit |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-May-17 9:15 pm
Funny how the guy from Quebec mentioned the "Star of David" - as if people of Jewish descent and/or faith wear ninja-star sized ones around their neck so that they can be prepared for the next time they encounter Celine Forget - as his first rebuttal. Am I surprised? No. Is anyone else here? Probably not. Just remember - this is the same [person] who time and time again has called me a a racist or bigot for pointing out the obvious. |
actions · 2012-May-17 9:15 pm · (locked) |
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to differentEEK
said by differentEEK :What about a star of David. I could likely stab your jugular with that pointy thing.
I could take a cross hanging off your neck, put the cross part between my finders and use the bottom of the cross as a stabbing object to take out your eye and hopefully reach your brain if the cross is big enough.... 1) None of those other things are [designed] as weapons, a Kirpan is. 2) Funny how a guy from the LEAST tolerant part of Canada, preaches tolerance. |
actions · 2012-May-17 9:21 pm · (locked) |
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to elwoodblues
There's a lot of blustery exaggerations in this thread. The kirpan in question would rationally be ceremonial and not a crocadile dundee machete and the blade may not exceed 10 CM. Take out a measuring tape. When we have a vicious court stabbing from a people wearing a kirpan, then get back to me; until then a lot of whinging over nothing. said by elwoodblues:Apparently there were 2, count'em 2 complaints since 2006, and now in the name of "religious freedom" they get to bring weapons into court, while the rest of us would be hung from the rafters if we tried to bring in a "ceremonial" weapon in with us. Not exactly. I typically concealed carry my trusty standard issue spyderco and I haven't been hung from any rafters. Heck, these guys are wearing their knives on their belts so they're certainly safer than people who aren't. If everyone's going to get their panties in a bunch, why don't they start crying for metal detectors in all courts since no one seems to be bitching about anyone else who could have a knife in their pockets. In fact, I can't dig up a single incident involving a Sikh knifing anyone in court while there's been plenty of incidents in Canada, in courts of regular people pulling out knives and cutting others or themselves. |
actions · 2012-May-17 9:39 pm · (locked) |