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Poornoob

@ultzindustries.com
reply to Kearnstd

Re: Vodka v Method heroic mode DS race

said by Kearnstd:

some players are only better at raiding because they can spend so much time at it. This is why EU guilds are many times the world first leaders. They get lots more vacation time(usually by law), if they know an expansion is coming out they might burn two weeks of their time stash for the release. This means they can put in those 18hr playing sessions to be max lev in two or three days, it means they can start hitting raiding while most of us have gained two levels. They also play beta full time once they get their primary crew into the beta and the beta has raids they are raiding there too so they go into live already knowing the basic framework. Most of us have to read the beta stuff or learn it as we go in.

YES I GET THAT ALREADY. BUT HOW DOES THAT MAKE MY WANTING TO LEARN FROM WHAT THEY DO AND TRY IT FUTILE? What I'm asking is conceptually no different from watching the beta vids, and picking up their strats, but it's the next step up. I'm asking if anyone knows how they think about raids, and problem solving. I'm hoping that by learning this, even a little bit, I (and maybe other people here) can take the next step, or at least be able to go in with a better plan, and execute better after 20 trys instead of blindly going in with a bad noob plan and pounding my head against the wall wipe after wipe. I GET THAT I CAN'T GET AS GOOD AS THEY ARE WITHOUT 300 HOURS OF DUNGEON TIME. I'M NOT TRYING TO GET AS GOOD AS THEY ARE -- I'M TRYING TO GET BETTER THAN I AM FASTER THAT I WOULD BY JUST BLINDLY GOING IN TIME AFTER TIME. Practice doesn't help if you're not practicing something, and hurts if you practice it wrong. I'm trying to figure out what to practice.

At this point, I'm wasting my time on here. All the responses I've gotten have been "they practice a lot, and we don't". Well DUH. Either nobody on here knows, or they don't want to share. I just hope someone was able to learn something from what I've shared.


Poornoob

@ultzindustries.com
Correction: Thanks Defton for the tip on the vid. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, but I will!


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
reply to Poornoob
y r u so mad


Poornoob

@ultzindustries.com
Not mad - frustrated that the attitude on here seems to be "you can't do it, don't bother to try." If nobody knows, nobody knows, and I'm good with that. But having 4 or 5 different people post variations of "they practice a lot, you don't, too bad for you" is simply unhelpful, and discourages other people from posting something constructive. I'd have preferred nobody replied at all.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
I feel ya... focus on the ones you can help... ignore the naysayers.


Poornoob

@ultzindustries.com
Particularly frustrating because Cig is asking for and getting helpful tips on other threads, but he seems bound and determined to discourage me from learning. I probably just made the topic too vague and open ended.

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
reply to Immer
I never said u cannot do it. Anything is possible or attainable. There is a reason some people get world first and some are stuck at 2/8 Heroic like myself. The best advice i can give you, or tip, is every button push has a result. Knowing the results of each buttonpush and understanding it will ultamately make you a better player. THE BEST WAY TO RAID BETTER IS A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR CLASS AND A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANICS OF EACH PARTICULAR FIGHT!!!
--
Cigtyme - Alliance - Galakrond - Draneri Arcane Mage
GM and RL of Exalted with Chuck Norris (Before damn Commercial)
"What the hell man, wipe it, we fricken can't heal this damn thing to death"


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
don't take it as an attack on you, ciggy... just a word of encouragement for poornoob.

carry-on, gentlemen... carry on.


Poornoob

@ultzindustries.com
reply to cigtyme
said by cigtyme:

THE BEST WAY TO RAID BETTER IS A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF YOUR CLASS AND A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF THE MECHANICS OF EACH PARTICULAR FIGHT!!!

Exactly. And every trick and tip adds a little to the complete understanding. The better the understanding, the better the practice, the faster I become a better player, and the raid progresses. There's stuff the pros know and I don't, and if I learn even a little of what they know, that adds to my complete understanding. Telling me I need to practice more adds nothing.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Poornoob
Register an account, and send this type of sidebar via private message. I don't think it is necessary to post in the thread proper. Now I need to respond to it... the major problem with getting yourself heard is one of scale. Empirically I fully agree with your assertions; however, what you are espousing in this thread is most relevant for those moving from non-raider to competent raider. Given the title of this thread is Vodka vs Method... I can see where the naysayers have solid footing in feeling the need to limit your expectations of results from providing guidance... you can't blog someone to the level of Vodka or Method raiding skill without hours of gametime.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

than/then | to/two/too | A lot (notice the space in there) | you/your/you're

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
reply to Poornoob
Yes i apologize for being stearn and somewhat rude. I was under the impression that you were looking for shortcuts to become a great raider. There is no shortcut for that. Advice on becoming a great raider, or tips, :toon knowledge, situational awareness, targeting macros, trial and error on bosses, converse with like toons for info, and finally every descision in WoW has repocussions. There are many others as well. You are like a WoW surgeon. Whatever boss is on your operating table getting cut up, you have to know exactly how to handle each crisis as they come up. Being Proactive instead of reactive is the best way i can describe it.
--
Cigtyme - Alliance - Galakrond - Draneri Arcane Mage
GM and RL of Exalted with Chuck Norris (Before damn Commercial)
"What the hell man, wipe it, we fricken can't heal this damn thing to death"


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
said by cigtyme:

Yes i apologize for being stearn and somewhat rude. I was under the impression that you were looking for shortcuts to become a great raider.

He is, see my hand holding comment. At the same time, he's an AMAZING player, but yet there's just gotta be 'tips and tricks' that he doesn't know that will make him AMAZING.
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
actually, your first comment to his post was overly dismissive (an attempt to steal the wind from his sails). Your assertion was that there was nothing left to know about DS; therefore, he was asking for tips to riding a bike.

I can see where that might put someone on the defensive.


JB
Stay Gold
Premium
join:2009-05-14
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
I actually gave what I thought was pretty good starting off advice and he jumped all over me. More or less what I said would get you through most content.

DPS that doesn't stand in shit and put up good numbers you will be amazed at how far that will take you.
--
Here's the final bullet,
to put our love to death.


Poornoob

@ultzindustries.com
reply to Immer
said by Immer:

Register an account, and send this type of sidebar via private message. I don't think it is necessary to post in the thread proper. Now I need to respond to it... the major problem with getting yourself heard is one of scale. Empirically I fully agree with your assertions; however, what you are espousing in this thread is most relevant for those moving from non-raider to competent raider. Given the title of this thread is Vodka vs Method... I can see where the naysayers have solid footing in feeling the need to limit your expectations of results from providing guidance... you can't blog someone to the level of Vodka or Method raiding skill without hours of gametime.

My apologies to the forum and Cig in particular for my last remark. I know stuff on forums comes across in ways not intended, and should not have made a personal attack.

As far as my expectations are concerned, I've repeatedly said right from the initial responses that I don't expect to get to Vodka / Method level -- I'm just hoping to learn something from the way they and other pro guilds do things that may improve my conceptual framework and help me advance as a player and a raider. Their race just inspired me to ask. I'll just give up on this thread and maybe post a more limited question like "anyone have any pro-tips on raid awareness" or somesuch somewhere else.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to JB
said by JB:

I actually gave what I thought was pretty good starting off advice

it was the equivalent of saying "buy low, sell high" to someone looking for advanced goblin AH techniques. You were being dismissive... most of us ignore it because we've learned to expect it from you.


Immer
Gentleman
Premium
join:2010-01-07
Evans, GA
kudos:8
reply to Poornoob
Have you watched videos on L2Raid and read through Icy-veins.com strats? I cannot help beyond that because I'm still trying to get my guild through 10M blackhorn normal.

cigtyme
Coonass and Proud of it

join:2010-08-17
Houma, LA
kudos:1
Watch Vodka Method Paragon videos. Google Deathwing video from a "enter class here".

In FL we were stuck at Bethalac. I know don't judge me lol. Our hunters couldn't solo the little dudes. I googled Bethalac surv hunter videos. and Voila. It should how to solo them. I gave ths info to our hunter, he watched it and understood it. We havent wiped to beth since that day.

This isnt a tip. it is an example. There are almost too many ways to improve to list them here. It is almost a "as it happens basis". Figure out how to handle situations will help you out alot trying to get to their level. But no one on here has that kind of info. IF we did we would be in Vodka and not on this forum page.
--
Cigtyme - Alliance - Galakrond - Draneri Arcane Mage
GM and RL of Exalted with Chuck Norris (Before damn Commercial)
"What the hell man, wipe it, we fricken can't heal this damn thing to death"


Poornoob

@ultzindustries.com
reply to Immer
Yes. I'm a competent raider, and as I said, my raid does DS10N in about 2 hours with maybe a wipe or two. We have done Morchok H, but haven't really tried the other bosses H yet because we have been running both mains and alts through DS, and getting the legendary staff, so we need to complete a full run on any raid night. I've looked at most of the typical resources: Icy-veins, Tankspot, Magecraft, WoW forums, and others that don't come to mind immediately. That's why I'm asking about ADVANCED tips and tricks - I think I have a pretty good grasp of the stuff most casual raiders know. If we were talking baseball, I'd say I'm beer league good, and am hoping to improve to semi-pro good. I'm not even hoping to get to the minor leagues, but just wanting to find ways of playing better.