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Kommie
Premium
join:2003-05-13
united state
kudos:3

3 edits

[Caps] Caps vs. Metered Billing

Split from this topic --> »[BW Meter] Comcast to Replace Usage Cap
~sorto'


Somehow in Countries like South Korea and Japan caps are unheard of but yet we are all happy to see it here.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA

1 edit
said by Kommie:

Somehow in Countries like South Korea and Japan caps are unheard of but yet we are all happy to see it here.

You could always move.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us


Kommie
Premium
join:2003-05-13
united state
kudos:3

1 edit
said by JohnInSJ:

said by Kommie:

Somehow in Countries like South Korea and Japan caps are unheard of but yet we are all happy to see it here.

You could always move.

Whatever...

GTFan

join:2004-12-03

1 edit
What do you expect when there is little effective competition for wired HSI in most areas?

I think Comcast got a phone call from the FCC about the Xbox usage not counting against the caps (and that it pretty well invalidated the original justification for them), so metered billing is what we get instead when no one else can have access to the lines.

Mandated common carrier status is the only way out of this and has been used to great success in both Europe and Asia, but Congress blew this in 1996 and lobbyist money will make sure it never happens here.

medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4
reply to Kommie
I came from Southeast Asia...

There are no caps, metered and un-metered billing, prepaid cards etc....BUT speeds are way too slow compared to what we have here.

when I showed my friends on fb my speeds on comcast, they were all like HOLY S**T!

I'm very happy with what I have right now....


derp

@comcast.net
Yeah, but we're talking about Japan/Korea (east asia) not India (south asia) and vietnam/thailand (southeast asia)


whfsdude
Premium
join:2003-04-05
Washington, DC
Reviews:
·Comcast
reply to Kommie
said by Kommie:

Split from this topic --> »[BW Meter] Comcast to Replace Usage Cap
~sorto'


Somehow in Countries like South Korea and Japan caps are unheard of but yet we are all happy to see it here.

You could also use Sweden, the Netherlands, and Estonia as examples.


05381257

join:2011-05-03
reply to Kommie


medbuyer

join:2003-11-20
kudos:4

1 recommendation

reply to derp
said by derp :

Yeah, but we're talking about Japan/Korea (east asia) not India (south asia) and vietnam/thailand (southeast asia)

Singapore which has decent speeds and almost the same prices compared here doesn't have CAPS like we do. They have 6 ISP's which serves the whole SG. And they are in Southeast Asia.

what I am trying to drive at is that some countries do have decent speeds but ISP's may have implemented caps and vice versa. and some countries have mediocre internet but may or may not have caps. it's just the way how they want to run their business.

now, if you want, you can move and enjoy uncapped speeds for a good or decent price. OR you can stay and live with what you have. which OTHERS doesn't even have the luxury of getting internet at all.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
reply to Kommie
If it's 300GB plus $10/50GB that's not bad. The only thing that really pisses me off is that they are not counting their XBOX VOD bandwidth.

Also, if they offer more speed with the metered billing, I'd take the speed over unlimited.


NetFixer
Freedom is NOT Free
Premium
join:2004-06-24
The Boro
Reviews:
·Cingular Wireless
·Comcast Business..
·Vonage
said by BiggA:

If it's 300GB plus $10/50GB that's not bad. The only thing that really pisses me off is that they are not counting their XBOX VOD bandwidth...

OTOH, I believe that Comcast does require that you pay for a cable plan that includes VoD service, so Xbox users are not really getting some "free" benefit.

I don't have an Xbox , and I only pay for the lowest price basic cable service (I can't remember the last time that I actually sat down and watched a TV program), so I can't verify that assumption. Perhaps someone who does have an Xbox and who uses the Comcast Xbox video service can confirm/invalidate my assumption?
--
We can never have enough of nature.
We need to witness our own limits transgressed, and some life pasturing freely where we never wander.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
VOD normally runs over managed QAM, which is a closed system, not the internet. If they want to bundle it fine, but they should have to count it against bandwidth, since it causes congestion just like any other bandwidth usage, since the bandwidth issues are all at the edge, not the core. There is limited edge capacity, but the core is unlimited, since you can always just add more fiber.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
They don't count Xbox traffic against your allocated bandwidth, that's why it always gets a full rate stream where Netflix would be throttled if your line is maxed out.


JohnInSJ
Premium
join:2003-09-22
Aptos, CA
said by GTFan:

They don't count Xbox traffic against your allocated bandwidth, that's why it always gets a full rate stream where Netflix would be throttled if your line is maxed out.

huh? This I doubt.
--
My place : »www.schettino.us

bandit8623

join:2004-09-08
Minneapolis, MN
reply to GTFan
they dont throttle. they warn you if you go past, even that depends.

BiggA

join:2005-11-23
EARTH
Correct.

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to JohnInSJ
said by JohnInSJ:

said by GTFan:

They don't count Xbox traffic against your allocated bandwidth, that's why it always gets a full rate stream where Netflix would be throttled if your line is maxed out.

huh? This I doubt.

»ber.gd/post/23025893856/comcast-···tization

GTFan

join:2004-12-03
reply to bandit8623
said by bandit8623:

they dont throttle. they warn you if you go past, even that depends.

Not throttled by Comcast, throttled by the fact that you're out of bandwidth. I said if the line was maxed out Netflix would suffer but Xbox wouldn't, and that's what the linked post shows with the experiments that they conducted. Xbox gets its own 'lane of traffic' or bandwidth, whatever you prefer, but Netflix has to share.

Of course you could argue that Xbox is just another STB doing VOD which is no different than how U-Verse works with their IP STBs and Xbox - those flows don't count against caps either, but each one takes up a provisioned IPTV stream (which could be up to 4 for HD depending on how close you are to the VRAD).

bandit8623

join:2004-09-08
Minneapolis, MN
thats not called throttling, thats called overcongested lines.


joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
said by bandit8623:

thats not called throttling, thats called overcongested lines.

Throttling sounds right. »en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_throttling


espaeth
Digital Plumber
Premium,MVM
join:2001-04-21
Minneapolis, MN
kudos:2

1 recommendation

Throttle implies that bandwidth has a hard limit regardless of how much capacity is available, and that's almost certainly not what's implemented here.

It would be very easy to map the Comcast-sourced video traffic into a different DOCSIS traffic class at the CMTS based on source IP address, very similar to how they map CDV to a higher service class to ensure the quality of that traffic on a shared channel. This isn't really "throttling" because in a non-congested state you don't queue traffic, so you have no need to prioritize traffic within the queue.


joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
said by espaeth:

Throttle implies that bandwidth has a hard limit regardless of how much capacity is available, and that's almost certainly not what's implemented here.

Throttle implies the speed you'd get if everyone started downloading at once on a given node and put the system over capacity. If you want it to mean something else, we should avoid the word, because each person doesn't read it the same. I know - torrents were getting throttled even when system wasn't hitting limits, so nevermind, I agree with you....


EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10

1 recommendation

IMO, to "throttle" implies that something *deliberate* is being done and not *the nature of the beast*.


joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
said by EG:

IMO, to "throttle" implies that something *deliberate* is being done and not *the nature of the beast*.

Ok. So we agree the word is ambiguous. Right? Since it's used that way, I can't argue with you. I hope we also agree there's only so much capacity at any moment, and that number is probably much lower than the promised rate times the number of customers.

And there may come a day when the ISP says "we guarantee X Mb/s, but at 3am you might just see 100Mb/s" instead of limiting speeds to service levels.

bandit8623

join:2004-09-08
Minneapolis, MN
reply to joetaxpayer
i read that and it doesnt have anything to do with over congested lines. Comcast DOESNT throttle. if the lines are somehow over congested and your speed slows down, thats not called throttling.

now if comcast actually throttled before the congestion was too happen then yes i agree with you.

throttling is an act to stop congestion from happening. over congestion is the effect of not enough bandwidth


joetaxpayer
I'M Here Till Thursday

join:2001-09-07
Sudbury, MA
said by bandit8623:

i read that and it doesn't have anything to do with over congested lines. Comcast DOESN'T throttle.

From the wiki link - "Bandwidth throttling is a reactive measure employed in communication networks in an apparent attempt to regulate network traffic and minimize bandwidth congestion."

They don't?


EG
The wings of love
Premium
join:2006-11-18
Union, NJ
kudos:10

bandit8623

join:2004-09-08
Minneapolis, MN
reply to joetaxpayer
quoting wiki again - On a broader level, the Internet Service Provider may use bandwidth throttling to help reduce a user's usage of bandwidth that is supplied to the local network. This can be used to actively limit a user's upload and download rates on programs such as video streaming

no they dont. they may use some sort of prioritizing on their main switches, but i havent ever seen my speed reduced.

i would suppose it depends on the area you are in too. ive never seen throttling in my area.

do you guys remember the whole throttling fcc situation a few years back? they stopped that practice. so maybe they are more sneeky about ? maybe


telcodad
Premium
join:2011-09-16
Lincroft, NJ
kudos:15
reply to EG
said by EG:

said by joetaxpayer:

They don't?

They do;

»customer.comcast.com/help-and-su···rmation/

"Comcasts current congestion management technique

If a certain area of the network nears a state of congestion, our congestion management technique will ensure that all customers have a fair share of network access. This technique will identify which customer accounts are using the greatest amounts of bandwidth, and their Internet traffic will be temporarily managed until the congestion period passes. Customers will still be able to do anything they want online, but they could experience longer times to download or upload files or slower web surfing."

Yes, I guess that does sound like throttling.

bandit8623

join:2004-09-08
Minneapolis, MN
Targets of congestion management-

Our current technique is "protocol-agnostic," which means the system does not manage congestion based on the application(s) being used. It is also content neutral, and does not depend on the type of content that is generating traffic congestion. Put simply: Congestion-managed traffic is not based on specific applications or content, but on current network conditions and recent amounts of data transferred by users.