dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
Search similar:


uniqs
3655

aqk
join:2006-07-17
Elgin, QC

4 edits

aqk

Member

HUAWEI in Canada. And right beside (900ft!) the USA border.

Quote: In an exclusive interview in Washington, Michelle K. Van Cleave told CBC News the involvement of Huawei Technologies in Canadian telecom networks risks turning the information highway into a freeway for Chinese espionage against both the U.S. and Canada.
=========================================
OK. So, the following was sent to a couple of US security "reps", as well as US Homeland Security (Gad, they are tough to track down!)
let's see what response I'll get..
==== MESSAGE FOLLOWS ===

I live in Canada- specifically Quebec, right on the border of New York State- United States.
The border is defined more or less here by the 45th Parallel.
Last year I was informed that a string of Telecomm /Cellular towers would be soon built just inside the Canada/US border here.
One tower will be built just a half-mile from my house.
Bell Canada has already installed fiber-optic cable throughout the neighbourhood here, even though there are less than 400 people in my municipality of Elgin Quebec. At this point it is what is called "dark fiber" - i.e. it carries no high speed internet stuff, just old analog telephone signals.
Why is Bell Mobility building these towers? I already have a high-speed internet connection to a tower about 5 miles north of here, and most of the old folks in this neighbourhood aren't even interested in upgrading their old dialup internet connections, if they are indeed connected to the internet. Cell phones? I doubt any of these old fuddie-duddies even use these.
And there is EXCELLENT cellphone coverage on the nearby Route 138 highway.
So why the string of towers? It would be a lot - A LOT less expensive to install two or three "SLAMS" instead of erecting a STRING of these huge towers right on the US border.
I surmised that perhaps Bell Canada hoped to make some money from "Roaming charges" incurred by people in the United States. But most people thought that this also impractical. So why the towers along the border?

Then TODAY, things became a bit clearer: Canada recently signed a big contract with the Chinese Telecommunications company Huawei to put much of this infrastructure in place.
See the CBC news item »goo.gl/J9a3T for details. Wow.
Huawei? Installing equipment right along the US border, huh..?
I guess the Homeland Security Blackhawk and JetRanger helicoptors that now fly daily just south of here better get used to seeing these towers with the Chinese equipment in them.
Think about this
One tower is scheduled to be built at . N 45 - 00'13.44" , W xxxxxx"
View these coordinates using Google Maps.
I can supply approximate locations of the other towers if need be.
axus
join:2001-06-18
Washington, DC

axus

Member

Very interesting, though they could just buy land and build towers in the US if they wanted to be closer to... whatever. You think it's to listen in on the border patrols?

aqk
join:2006-07-17
Elgin, QC

1 edit

aqk

Member

Ummm.. HUH?
OK... lessee.. China arbitrarily buys land all over the US to put up their cell tower /spy posts? Hey- maybe a BIG one in downtown Washington also.
Maybe a Chinese Airport to run spyplanes out of, too!
Gosh! Why didn't I think of that?

Hellooo... ! If you did not read the above link / article, I'm sorry.
May I say "Whooosh"? ... right over your head.
HUAWEI are NOT allowed in the US. Or Australia. Or India.

Golly, the way you put it, why don't the Chinese just open up a whole internet spy shop in the US? Or maybe just fly spy planes all over the US?
Geeezz... who let YOU in here?

jp_zer01
@videotron.ca

jp_zer01 to aqk

Anon

to aqk
It's all crap. Huawei is a private company whose success lies with its integrity. The security threat is vastly overstated and no tampering/espionage issue has ever been documented.

I'd sooner believe that the US is trying to muddy the waters as to protect its own telecom equipment companies. So what if the founder has served in the Chinese army? Pretty sure Canada is on good terms with China anyways so this is just libel IMO.
DSL_Ricer
Premium Member
join:2007-07-22

DSL_Ricer

Premium Member

I've heard stories from employees of one of Huawei's competitors, and the topic of their espionage does occasionally come up.

Now, this is entirely hearsay but supposedly, for a while, wherever either Ericsson or Alcatel-Lucent would open offices, Huawei would too, within a few kilometers. This resulted in there being two Huawei branches in the same city, within a few km of each other. Furthermore, in their internal product feature roadmap, they started adding bogus features, because they noticed Huawei feature announcements to be rather interestingly timed. The bogus features started showing up too.

The more general allegation against Huawei is that it's backed by Chinese government money, with everything that brings with it.
49667909 (banned)
join:2012-05-10

49667909 (banned) to aqk

Member

to aqk
NIMBY's

Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON

Gone to jp_zer01

Premium Member

to jp_zer01
said by jp_zer01 :

I'd sooner believe that the US is trying to muddy the waters as to protect its own telecom equipment companies.

... um, what companies would those be, exactly?

If it's not Chinese, it's European.
HeadSpinning
MNSi Internet
join:2005-05-29
Windsor, ON

HeadSpinning

Member

said by Gone:

said by jp_zer01 :

I'd sooner believe that the US is trying to muddy the waters as to protect its own telecom equipment companies.

... um, what companies would those be, exactly?

If it's not Chinese, it's European.

There are a handful of US telecom manufacturers in the access space like Zhone and Calix.

Although I have no proof, I wouldn't put it past the Chinese manufacturers to put hooks for back doors right in the firmware/microcode of their chipsets.

shwatkin
Premium Member
join:2007-10-02
Newcastle, ON
Asus XT8
Asus RT-AX92U
Nokia XS-010X-Q

1 recommendation

shwatkin to aqk

Premium Member

to aqk
This is ridiculous. There are lots of Chinese companies that make components for network infrastructure companies. What would stop any one of them from designing a known flaw into one of those components. If the Chinese really wanted to spy on other countries around the world do you think they would put all their eggs in one basket as in the case of Huawei. This is just a bunch of conspiracy theorist tin-foil hat wearing people speculating on a worst case scenario and then attaching that scenario to a likely scapegoat. There is not one shred of actual factual evidence to say that Huawei is leading the charge in electronic surveillance against the US or any other country. TP-Link is also a Chinese company and I don't hear anyone demanding a boycott of their products, in fact many of us swear by them as an excellent brand for the money. Lastly, if Huawei was really so untrustworthy would the world leading electronic security firm have partnered with them? Huawei Symantec (»www.huaweisymantec.com/), anyone? If it turns out I'm wrong then I'll eat my crow but until then it just seems stupid to speculate based on what amounts to gossip and lies.

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable to aqk

Anon

to aqk
Let me get this straight...

We hand over full blue prints, design files, firmware and even teach China how to build/service our designs. Not like they really need to steal that or reverse engineer things any more. As for spying, everyone does that and they even spy on their allies.

The real enemy is not the Chinese, it is the "1%" i.e. people that wield power and money - wealthy people and politicians. Not only do they move all manufacturing and/or design jobs by offshoring, they even want to chase Chinese tech companies to open shop and hire people here too?

newBell
@bell.ca

newBell to DSL_Ricer

Anon

to DSL_Ricer
said by DSL_Ricer:

I've heard stories from employees of one of Huawei's competitors, and the topic of their espionage does occasionally come up.

Now, this is entirely hearsay but supposedly, for a while, wherever either Ericsson or Alcatel-Lucent would open offices, Huawei would too, within a few kilometers. This resulted in there being two Huawei branches in the same city, within a few km of each other. Furthermore, in their internal product feature roadmap, they started adding bogus features, because they noticed Huawei feature announcements to be rather interestingly timed. The bogus features started showing up too.

The more general allegation against Huawei is that it's backed by Chinese government money, with everything that brings with it.

Perhaps it is easier to co-locate with other telecom companies so that they can get experienced workers? Didn't Cisco open up shop in Ottawa to get all the Nortel/Newbridge/Mitel folks?

And having more than one "branch" per city is suspicious? Darn, Nortel buildings were everywhere in Ottawa.

Disclaimer: I don't work for any companies I mentioned above.
Moffetts
join:2005-05-09
San Mateo, CA

Moffetts to aqk

Member

to aqk
Whoa, thought this was the security forum for a second. This thread is just littered with empty reynolds wrap boxes.

aqk
join:2006-07-17
Elgin, QC

aqk to 49667909

Member

to 49667909
said by 49667909:

NIMBY's


Well, yes, of course it's a NIMBY thing.
I admit this was my first reaction, when I saw a tower was to be erected nearby.
But upon noting that a string of towers were to be erected along the US/Canada border, I started to think "WTF?"
NO ONE lives here! This is of course a bit of hyperbole; I do, as well as a few dozen other folks, most of who do not even care what a cell tower (or a cell phone) is.
There's quite a bit of tin-foil hat innuendo posted in this thread- but if someone can explain why a string of $250K (my estimate) towers that sort of go nowhere, can do a better job than a few R/DSLAMS, lemme know.
aqk

aqk to Moffetts

Member

to Moffetts
said by Moffetts:

Whoa, thought this was the security forum for a second. This thread is just littered with empty reynolds wrap boxes.

When you start to wear yours, just make sure it's Reynolds, and not Chinalco. Otherwise everything is lost.

... oops! perhaps you're already wearing a Chinalco one.

battleop
join:2005-09-28
00000

battleop to aqk

Member

to aqk
This is a pretty slippery slope for Huawei. Do they ship routers out with "back doors" pre-installed? I highly doubt it because they would not risk shipping routers with a special firmware to just anyone who might be able to find their "back door" by reverse engineering.

Don't think for a second that Cisco (and others) hasn't hacked the hell out Huawei products looking for such a back door. The discovery of such a back door could be devastating to Huawei because no one would touch their products if such a hole was found.

Is it possible for Huawei to cooperate with the Chinese government? Sure but you won't find any Huawei gear installed any place where they could really make use of such special firmwares.

Ott_Cable
@teksavvy.com

Ott_Cable

Anon

It is far more stealthy/sneaky if Cisco's contract manufacturer were to slip a backdoor in their firmware than putting it in Huawei. Also if one were to switch a critical shipment of Cisco gears with fake one that come with the backdoor... It is not like China have not made fake Cisco gear and sold them before.

Why have evidence pointing back to yourself when you could redirect that to your competitor and their unsuspecting customers?

travisc
join:2001-11-09
Uxbridge, ON

travisc to aqk

Member

to aqk
Should I be concerned that my tinfoil hat is Chinese-made?

aqk
join:2006-07-17
Elgin, QC

aqk

Member

said by travisc:

Should I be concerned that my tinfoil hat is Chinese-made?

Another one!
Now I know! DSLREPORTS has been infiltrated! Just like Cisco, CSIS, and the CIA!
Sir - WAKE UP! Rip off that corrupting Chinese aluminum "shield" that you think protects you against bad thoughts, and see the truth- as it is!
Wear a Rio Tinto Alcan.. wait! No! Wear a Reynolds Tobacco product instead. There is a new dawn out there. We must seize it!
In the meantime you may find help at
  »zapatopi.net/afdb/       PLEASE! I beg you- seek this help! And do not shop at the mind-controlling Walmart! (unless the price is REALLY low!)
GBerry
join:2011-06-12
Guelph, ON

GBerry to aqk

Member

to aqk
Could be a government contract to provide cell reception along the border for customs officials. Generally, service is rather poor in those locations because you don't want your signals stretching too far into another country.

Both Bell and Rogers look to have spotty coverage in that area to begin with.
25139889 (banned)
join:2011-10-25
Toledo, OH

25139889 (banned) to aqk

Member

to aqk
Carriers still use them for devices such as the USB 3g/4g cards. TMO is one of those carriers and so is Alltel any a few others.

The US Gov't would not allow them to bid on the National Emergency Network though- that's the only thing that they said they could not do.

bantamcc
@bell.ca

bantamcc to aqk

Anon

to aqk
Bah !

Just more hyperbore. Friggin media must've had a slow week !

;-(

FiReSTaRT
Premium Member
join:2010-02-26
Canada

FiReSTaRT

Premium Member

As someone already mentioned, they could have bought land in the US and even paid almost Chinese wages to the poor people down there, if they really wanted to spy. There's no practical reason to build in Canada where the land and the workers are more expensive, the taxes are a lot greater and they have to jump through many regulatory hoops in comparison with the US.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs to aqk

Premium Member

to aqk
said by aqk:

But upon noting that a string of towers were to be erected along the US/Canada border, I started to think "WTF?"

They're for the searchlights and the motion-activated machine guns.....to protect our borders.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron to HeadSpinning

Premium Member

to HeadSpinning
said by HeadSpinning:

Although I have no proof, I wouldn't put it past the Chinese manufacturers to put hooks for back doors right in the firmware/microcode of their chipsets.

Even if, wouldn't you (or any other network operator for that matter) notice that your data was being re-routed rather quickly?

Creating a huge issue for both Huawei and China in general?

bemis
Premium Member
join:2008-07-18
united state

bemis to FiReSTaRT

Premium Member

to FiReSTaRT
said by FiReSTaRT:

As someone already mentioned, they could have bought land in the US and even paid almost Chinese wages to the poor people down there, if they really wanted to spy. There's no practical reason to build in Canada

FTFA:
...the U.S. and Australia have already blocked Huawei from major telecom projects in those countries, and otherwise made it clear they regard China's largest telecommunications company as a potential security threat.

So my guess is that it would not be so easy for them simply buy US land to erect towers on their own.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by bemis:

said by FiReSTaRT:

As someone already mentioned, they could have bought land in the US and even paid almost Chinese wages to the poor people down there, if they really wanted to spy. There's no practical reason to build in Canada

FTFA:
...the U.S. and Australia have already blocked Huawei from major telecom projects in those countries, and otherwise made it clear they regard China's largest telecommunications company as a potential security threat.

So my guess is that it would not be so easy for them simply buy US land to erect towers on their own.

That is so 99% thinking.

Many cell towers in the US are owned by independent tower companies and carriers lease space on them, or may even lease just the capacity that others install.

Front companies are rarely checked out to see who really owns them.

Say Huawei (China) sets up ACE telecom (Singapore), which in turn owns Telco Infrastructure (Ireland), which in turn owns Telco Infrastructure (BVI) with nominee officers/directors. The BVI company then incorporates TI Corporation (Delaware) and hires Coldwell Banker to act on their behalf to buy land.

All the incorporations are done in low/no taxation jurisdictions, so that in and of itself raises no alarms. The nominee directors in the BVI stop a further traceback for the most part. And the name on the land deed will be a red, white, and blue American company nominally headquartered in Delaware - just like so many others.

bemis
Premium Member
join:2008-07-18
united state

bemis

Premium Member

said by MaynardKrebs:

You're right, they can use shell companies, etc... who is to say they are not already doing this, and the add'l towers in Canada are merely a secondary method of keeping tabs? Of course that is truly paranoid.

I would also assume that our governemnt, at some level, if reasonably capable of following the trail back to whoever the original owners are.

Another thought is that even if they do setup in the US, it would not be a huge stretch to have our government wield some quiet and heavy power to inspect, dismantle or other tamper with, equipment on towers located on US soil. While I assume they would be able to do the same on Canadian soil, esp near a large and unguarded border, I would assume it would not be easy to keep it quiet without the Canadian government if things were discovered.

More to the point tho really, is what exactly would Huawei, or China, have to gain from snooping along the border? Seems like a relatively uninteresting place... unless of course they wanted to use those towers to help people/objects transition from Canada into US soil?

BTW, I'm not actually this paranoid, this more indulging in fantasy. I think Huawei has only commericial interests at heart, tho I do believe they would become a threat if relations bewteen China and the US soured.
MaynardKrebs
We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.
Premium Member
join:2009-06-17

MaynardKrebs

Premium Member

said by bemis:

..... it would not be a huge stretch to have our government wield some quiet and heavy power to inspect, dismantle or other tamper with, equipment on towers located on US soil.

A few shaped charges strapped to the tower legs will do.

»www.controlled-demolition.com/
DSL_Ricer
Premium Member
join:2007-07-22

DSL_Ricer to El Quintron

Premium Member

to El Quintron
Re-routed?

"Law-full" access interfaces don't change routes. They just send a copy to whoever requests it.

El Quintron
Cancel Culture Ambassador
Premium Member
join:2008-04-28
Tronna

El Quintron

Premium Member

said by DSL_Ricer:

Re-routed?

"Law-full" access interfaces don't change routes. They just send a copy to whoever requests it.

Bad terminology on my part. Assuming a copies were being sent back to China (or Huawei) the network operator would (should?) notice.

At least that what I meant to say, feel free to add if you think that isn't an accurate assessment.