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Epichappy

join:2012-05-14
Kitchener, ON

[TV] DTA 50 question

I was wondering how rogers is structuring their network with the transition away from analog modulation.

I though they were using SDV and thus they would need smart... or at least somewhat smart boxes to use TV however I was told that the low channels are being sent using unencrypted QAM. If that is the case then why does the DTA 50 need to be authorized and what could stop someone from plunging the cable into a QAM tuner TV and receiving all the QAM channels while only paying for internet or home phone services... Because I don't think QAM can be filtered the same way modulated analog can be...



yyzlhr

@rogers.com

Rogers only uses SDV for certain channels. Also all of Rogers digital channels are encrypted with the exception of the Galaxie Music stations and local radio stations.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

i remember only one clear channel on my cable, it was garbage channel too. not sure someone would want the one garbage channel in the clear, just get a dta or stb and watch real tv
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

3 edits


said by Epichappy:

I was wondering how rogers is structuring their network with the transition away from analog modulation.

I though they were using SDV and thus they would need smart... or at least somewhat smart boxes to use TV however I was told that the low channels are being sent using unencrypted QAM. If that is the case then why does the DTA 50 need to be authorized and what could stop someone from plunging the cable into a QAM tuner TV and receiving all the QAM channels while only paying for internet or home phone services... Because I don't think QAM can be filtered the same way modulated analog can be...

Now that rogers is switching to digital you will see a lot more clear QAM channels.

All the basic cable channels will be unencrypted clear QAM in order for the DTA to operate.

All DTAs are is clear QAM tuners.
DTAs do not scan so they need to be programmed with a channel lineup.
This is where rogers "authorization" comes into play. It is not any real means of security.

So you are correct they cant stop someone from plugging in a QAM tuner.
What they are hoping for is people like who think DTAs are required to see these channels.


FastEddie
Premium,Ex-Mod 2001-13
join:2000-12-29
Channel Z
kudos:6

1 edit

[TV] DTA 50 question

Moderator Action
The post that was here (and all 9 followups to it), has been moved to a new topic .. »[TV] DTA 50 question



FastEddie
Premium,Ex-Mod 2001-13
join:2000-12-29
Channel Z
kudos:6

(topic move) (topic move) [TV] DTA 50 question

Moderator Action
The post that was here, has been moved to a new topic .. »(post #27164694 no longer exists)


aereolis

join:2003-06-12
Brampton, ON

1 edit
reply to the cerberus

Re: [TV] DTA 50 question

said by the cerberus:

said by Epichappy:

I was wondering how rogers is structuring their network with the transition away from analog modulation.

I though they were using SDV and thus they would need smart... or at least somewhat smart boxes to use TV however I was told that the low channels are being sent using unencrypted QAM. If that is the case then why does the DTA 50 need to be authorized and what could stop someone from plunging the cable into a QAM tuner TV and receiving all the QAM channels while only paying for internet or home phone services... Because I don't think QAM can be filtered the same way modulated analog can be...

Now that rogers is switching to digital you will see a lot more clear QAM channels.

All the basic cable channels will be unencrypted clear QAM in order for the DTA to operate.

All DTAs are is clear QAM tuners.
DTAs do not scan so they need to be programmed with a channel lineup.
This is where rogers "authorization" comes into play. It is not any real means of security.

So you are correct they cant stop someone from plugging in a QAM tuner.
What they are hoping for is people who think DTAs are required to see these channels.

I don't believe this is true... but i haven't scanned for channels since rogers have been installing the DA's. Pretty sure they are encrypted thus the necessity.
--
Hello


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

still no extra channels showed up clear qam, so yes the box is decrypting them.


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON
reply to aereolis

said by aereolis:

I don't believe this is true... but i haven't scanned for channels since rogers have been installing the DA's. Pretty sure they are encrypted thus the necessity.

Believe what you want, i told you the truth, based on facts, heres a source to back it up, DIRECTLY FROM THIS SITE.
»Comcast Cable TV FAQ »What is a DTA? What channels can I get with a DTA? What about those new HD-DTA?

said by dslreports.com faq :
a DTA is a unencrypted QAM receiver for an analog TV

You should scan, if they have DTA's, they have clear QAM, its necessary for DTA's operate.
Technically speaking DTA's DO NOT HAVE the required hardware to decrypt ANYTHING.

QED, End of story.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

did a scan in my neighbourhood, guess what? only found the audio channels in the clear quam, everything else was blocked. i did check the frequency, and the dta tunes in the same frequency of the channel my stb tunes. so yes there is some authentication happening.

another note, my analog channels past 28 no longer works
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

said by Paolo:

did a scan in my neighbourhood, guess what? only found the audio channels in the clear quam, everything else was blocked. i did check the frequency, and the dta tunes in the same frequency of the channel my stb tunes. so yes there is some authentication happening.

another note, my analog channels past 28 no longer works

Your reasoning is very poor.
you are most likely using a QAM-64 or even QAM-16 tuner while rogers uses QAM-256 and thus you cannot scan these channels.
To assume there is some authentication happening when the hardware does not have such capability is flawed and illogical.


yyzlhr

@rogers.com

I can't say whether the channels are clear qam or not with any certainty. However, with the expertise that is available within these forums, I think someone here would have the right equipment and would have tried it and chimed in already if Rogers is indeed broadcasting these channels in clear QAM.



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

so the cerbus is incorect. cus he specifically stated he can tune them in the clear, yet he has not made any remark that he has the special equiptment to do so, and i clearly stated that my ATSC tv can NOT pick up the channels, nor can any of my neighbours or their neighbours or their neighbours neighbo
urs. no body really cares what equiptment is needed to pick them up, just dont say their clear cos if they were, we would all scan them. just say they are in a special frequency tvs dont pick up.
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!

Expand your moderator at work


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
reply to Paolo

Re: [TV] DTA 50 question

thanks



Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

i am still trying to find out the clear quam channels people keep mentioning the dtas pick up? why o why cant my tv pick them up?
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


AntonyLingo

join:2009-10-28
Toronto
Reviews:
·TekSavvy DSL

said by Paolo:

i am still trying to find out the clear quam channels people keep mentioning the dtas pick up? why o why cant my tv pick them up?

Why don't you post the type of TV you are using. Brand and model number


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

LG42LH30. I also subscribe to a specialty italian channel, so clear quam is out of the question for me, the channel is delivered by rogers in SDV format, so if lets say the cerebal wants to watch a latin or mexican channel, clear quam is not going to work for him, he will have to give in and buy a STB. the DTA-50 wont even work with the specialty subscription channels.
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


the cerberus

join:2007-10-16
Richmond Hill, ON

2 edits
reply to Paolo

said by Paolo:

so the cerbus is incorect. cus he specifically stated he can tune them in the clear, yet he has not made any remark that he has the special equiptment to do so, and i clearly stated that my ATSC tv can NOT pick up the channels, nor can any of my neighbours or their neighbours or their neighbours neighbo
urs. no body really cares what equiptment is needed to pick them up, just dont say their clear cos if they were, we would all scan them. just say they are in a special frequency tvs dont pick up.

I guess the mod thought I was a little too mean in my last remark, quite frankly I wasnt, but thats up to him.
I just said you need a tuner with QAM-256

Thats why your tv wont scan them.
the channels are in the clear, and its not called "quam", its QAM.


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

umm the mod is not just a guy you know..

and thanks for the QAM clarification, im gonna go out and buy a qam 256 tuner if they exist, or if not, i'll just stick to my free dta converter
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


aereolis

join:2003-06-12
Brampton, ON

said by Paolo:

umm the mod is not just a guy you know..

and thanks for the QAM clarification, im gonna go out and buy a qam 256 tuner if they exist, or if not, i'll just stick to my free dta converter

I dunno if they exist atm... check out this quick tutorial document by engadget which may enlighten a few people.
»hd.engadget.com/2009/05/08/hd-10···d-8-vsb/
--
Hello


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada

thanks for the link but its irrelivent to this discussion, the article is HD 101, while a DA50 is not even an hd tuner. it is am sdtv tuner. also the article mentions nothing about quam256 and how it works, it leaves it up to the imagination
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!