Topic 'Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue' in forum 'Photos of Broadband gear' - dslreports.com

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 28 May 2012 13:55:06 EDT

LazMan posted : You don't terminate the cables in one at a time... You bring in the entire bundle, then you dress and teminate the entire bundle.

And cables cheap, labour's expensive. You leave enough slack to do what you've got to do... When we pull in cable, we leave enough to go from the overhead rack to the floor, and back up to the top of the bay or patch panel. Plenty to dress it nice, but not excessive, either (well, borders on excessive, some days, but better too much, then not enough...)

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 28 May 2012 13:27:33 EDT

tomdlgns posted : yeah, $h*t happens, but i would imagine that whoever cables like that has experience and has done it enough times to know what to expect when it is time to plan/execute that job.

but you have a point, i am sure it has happened and will continue to happen to the best ones out there.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 28 May 2012 09:46:51 EDT

howardfine posted : What happens when one screws up the length on one of those cables and it doesn't reach or messes up the bend? I guess there's plenty of slack in all that but I imagine, at one point, someone said...oops!

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Wed, 23 May 2012 23:59:37 EDT

battleop posted : It took a year to build and it was not touched for 20 years.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Wed, 23 May 2012 15:56:34 EDT

DarkLogix posted : I really don't foresee any issue with POE heating cables.

Ya the heat coming off the switches is far more than all the wiring in the place.

I was just pointing out that some switches do have that kinda wattage, though how much is for POE and how much is for the switches to do normal stuff I'm not sure but I'd bet the bulk is for POE.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Wed, 23 May 2012 15:49:52 EDT

AMD Phreak posted : HIPOE is awesome, but you're right it is horribly expensive even in lower density options.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Wed, 23 May 2012 14:21:00 EDT

cramer posted : Yes, but they are exceedingly expensive, rather large, and generate far more heat than all the wiring in the building.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Wed, 23 May 2012 12:19:04 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by cramer:

[PS: It's worth noting your switch or midspan would need a 750W or 1700W power supply *just for PoE* to run such a setup.]

BTW some POE switches do have that

The ones where I work have dual 930watt powersupplies
so in theory 1860watts, I think when one PS fails it cuts the available PoE power down to what one powersupply can do.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Wed, 23 May 2012 00:00:56 EDT

TheMG posted :

said by cramer:

If you put 48 runs in one conduit, they were all pulling full power, and they were all 100m... (an unlikely case) that would be a 50W or 146W pipe. (31 and 92 for 22AWG) That'll get toasty if there's no air moving around it.

That works out to 1.46W per foot, which is unlikely to create any problems. Might feel slightly warm to the touch but that's about it.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Tue, 22 May 2012 22:44:36 EDT

cramer posted : Interesting points. PoE would be a special case. Using the first chart google points out [link], 100m of 24AWG (worst case, cat6 is supposed to be 22) wire would have 8.41976ohms of resistance. (PoE uses 2 parallel pairs.) 802.3af specs 15.4W (350mA) and 802.3at 34.2W (600mA.) So, a max "af" device would have just over 1W in the cable, and "at" just over 3W. If you put 48 runs in one conduit, they were all pulling full power, and they were all 100m... (an unlikely case) that would be a 50W or 146W pipe. (31 and 92 for 22AWG) That'll get toasty if there's no air moving around it. (BTW, I've seen power conduits like that, but never any data wiring.)

[PS: It's worth noting your switch or midspan would need a 750W or 1700W power supply *just for PoE* to run such a setup.]

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Tue, 22 May 2012 19:06:30 EDT

jmich posted : Agreed. The instructors from Fluke and ADC both mentioned this issue in recent VAR classes. I agree that well-installed networks work better and there's a great deal of pride to be had in doing a nice job...time allowing. Another issue they mentioned from bundling is heat potential. Some PoE devices do draw a decent amperage. Not an issue in a DC but enterprise wiring.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Tue, 22 May 2012 10:33:19 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by cramer:

potential, yes. Reality, not so much. Cat6 has issues at 10G over longer runs, and yes, bundles amplify the problem. That's why there's a cat6A -- there will be no meaningful crosstalk at rated bandwidth over full 100m runs. (increased pair spacing, and thicker cable shell... voila the cables cannot get close enough to create a problem.)

If you're really worried about it, fork over the cash for shielded cable. For the record, I've only had to use shielded cable twice... once in a radio station, and once in a UL Labs test cage. (we still failed, btw.)

If you wanta go to the insane level then use CAT7 + 1 cable per steel conduit.

And if RF is still something to worry about go fiber.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Tue, 22 May 2012 10:30:11 EDT

DarkLogix posted :

said by alphapointe:

Bollocks... If there is any more xtalk, it's a couple hundredths of a db. If this was a real problem, Bell wouldn't have done lacing, etc. for the past hundred years with no problems.

If it were a problem then just use the unofficialy named CAT7 cable.

5 sheilds, 1 around each of the 4 pairs, and 1 over all 4 pairs, plus a proper STP RJ45 end not the normal UTP RJ45 that you normally see.

then with the shields grounded theres no chance of xtalk between cables.

However I'll say this phone lines 100 years ago were less likely to have issue with xtalk than gig or 10g over copper

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Tue, 22 May 2012 02:33:18 EDT

cramer posted : potential, yes. Reality, not so much. Cat6 has issues at 10G over longer runs, and yes, bundles amplify the problem. That's why there's a cat6A -- there will be no meaningful crosstalk at rated bandwidth over full 100m runs. (increased pair spacing, and thicker cable shell... voila the cables cannot get close enough to create a problem.)

If you're really worried about it, fork over the cash for shielded cable. For the record, I've only had to use shielded cable twice... once in a radio station, and once in a UL Labs test cage. (we still failed, btw.)

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 21 May 2012 23:09:51 EDT

AMD Phreak posted : I think that's a lazy excuse because the installers are generally lazy.

The last job I worked in the field on, the data comm guys stopped and watched me several times while I laced. They never had seen it before. The electricians had seen it only in black and white photos while in trade schools. There was one hvac guy who had been around the block a few times in his days and he knew exactly what it was. He commented how good it was to see someone who still did that sort of work and it had been over 20 years since he'd seen it done.

There are a few of us who still do it. It is seriously time consuming but when your cabling has to be perfect, it's the only way.
--
"Saying something in another language that you don't think the other person understands is just saying that you're a pussy and are too afraid to say it in English." --Harddrive

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 21 May 2012 22:24:30 EDT

tomdlgns posted : i agree. no matter what, someone will always argue the opposite.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 21 May 2012 21:56:31 EDT

alphapointe posted : Bollocks... If there is any more xtalk, it's a couple hundredths of a db. If this was a real problem, Bell wouldn't have done lacing, etc. for the past hundred years with no problems.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 21 May 2012 21:31:09 EDT

tomdlgns posted : with random cables going every direction there is less distance between them which means less of a chance for crosstalk.

when the cables are laying on top of e/o and touching, it allows for a greater chance of crosstalk

that is how i read that post.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Mon, 21 May 2012 16:57:37 EDT

jmich posted : Very nice. Vendors are now saying that lacing and piping cable amplifies cross-talk potential and that random cabling is better for performance. Discuss.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sun, 20 May 2012 20:48:53 EDT

cramer posted : Panduit Cable bundle organizing tool
aCom Tools Cable Comb™
Patch Panel Tools "Cable Dresser"
(etc.)

Panduit makes the best, IMO, but it's a lot to pay for a $2 hunk of nylon. It makes a beautiful hex bundle.

(I've been known to make my own... ugly and short lived, but it gets the job done for pennies.)

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sun, 20 May 2012 20:08:25 EDT

tomdlgns posted :

said by cramer:

Ok, now show us the rats nest on the other side of those patch panels. ;-)

(For the record, it's not difficult to do that, but it is tedious and time consuming. There are tools for pulling cable bundles like that.)

post some of those tools you speak of.

that cabling job is nice.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sun, 20 May 2012 16:31:35 EDT

LazMan posted :

said by cramer:

And they didn't use zip ties or velcro... it was all beautifully cable laced. Sadly, it's now a lost art. (just finding waxed twine is a pain.)

Don't know about in the states - but lacing twine is still pretty easy to come by up here... Of course, finding someone that knows how to use it, that's a different story...

BTW - Lived in Raleigh back in '01 - working for Sprint up in Wake Forest... One of the nicest places I've ever been!

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sun, 20 May 2012 16:22:22 EDT

cramer posted :

said by LazMan:

Sad part it, 15 years ago, that wasn't impressive; that was just standard...

And they didn't use zip ties or velcro... it was all beautifully cable laced. Sadly, it's now a lost art. (just finding waxed twine is a pain.)

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sun, 20 May 2012 16:11:19 EDT

LazMan posted : Sad part it, 15 years ago, that wasn't impressive; that was just standard...

When I started as an installer at Nortel, there were rules about where stiches were placed on cable frames, how cables were run, etc. There was never a cross, a diver, a roll; it all looked like that. If your STRING rolled or crossed over, the quality man cut it all, and you did it again.

But we also used to get a year to build a new switch - it's done in 3 months now; and looks like shiz-nit. Anyways...

That said - that's some seriously good looking work. Someone should be proud!

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sat, 19 May 2012 20:33:28 EDT

AMD Phreak posted : Oh man that looks GOOD.

I can overlook the zip ties, based on workmanship. :D

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sat, 19 May 2012 17:26:18 EDT

TheMG posted : In a way, this reminds me of aircraft wiring, where all the wires have to be neatly bundled and routed, tied at specific intervals, observing proper bend radius, etc.

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sat, 19 May 2012 17:23:50 EDT

cramer posted : Ok, now show us the rats nest on the other side of those patch panels. ;-)

(For the record, it's not difficult to do that, but it is tedious and time consuming. There are tools for pulling cable bundles like that.)

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sat, 19 May 2012 12:36:38 EDT

liht posted : Some serious OCD going on there. Not a single cable overlapping another. All in a line. Perfectly spaced.
Either they ran one cable at a time, or they had TONS of time to do this. I'd love to know what company put that cabling in.
--
werd

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sat, 19 May 2012 09:58:23 EDT

workablob posted : Oh Sweet Clam!

Fap Fap Fap.

Nice post mate!

Dave

Re: Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sat, 19 May 2012 09:37:04 EDT

alphapointe posted : God damn! That's AWESOME!

Someone takes GREAT pride in their work...

Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue

Sat, 19 May 2012 09:24:56 EDT

voxframe posted : This isn't my work, wish it was.

Stumbled across this and figured it was worth it for anyone (Myself included) who loves a nice cabling job.

»www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY1XB0rr···=related

Yeah they used zip ties, but let's be honest, it works beautifully here and won't be a problem.