Player Mindsets - PvE vs. PvP (Which is Better?) - World of Warcraft

Author	All Replies
Arthritis join:2011-10-20 Canada	Player Mindsets - PvE vs. PvP (Which is Better?) Is there a difference? If so, what is it? This would be my first thread on these forums as I mostly lurk and try to add to the odd conversation. My reason for posting this is that I’m a knuckle dragging mouth breather who enjoys the complexity of tic tac toe, otherwise known as PvP. This isn't’t a shot at Immer, for whom I have the utmost respect. It’s more so the attitude and belief system he articulates, as it’s held by many and has got me thinking…. Is LFR symptomatic of all PvE players, who are essentially greedy, needy complainers who will screw you out of gear, look to be carried through content & try to get you remove you from raids without reason? Is world PvP symptomatic of all PvP players who will gank and camp you at every opportunity? Are both these types of player’s exceptions to the rule, or are the vast majority of players genuine douchebags of some sort? I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts. My belief is altruistically, ethically and cerebral that the mindset of the majority of Pve AND PvP players is essentially the same. They have the same goals, same mindset & same “gamer” values. I’ve seen and met too many good people who consistently do good things for others on a very consistent basis to believe otherwise. The behaviors displayed by a small minority at the entry level of specific content, whether they be low level BG’s, world PvP, early content heroic dungeons or LFR is NOT typical of the majority of players. Yet, who among us isn't’t shaped by our experience with these types of players. I equate both PvE & PvP play styles at the high level to actually playing chess, but with different changing dynamics. Both are equally challenging and rewarding. For the record I do both, and I have raided current content at heroic level with success and played arena / rbg with good rated results. I’m interested to learn why a boss and “adds” attacking your group, and you healing / tanking / dps’ing it down to nothing to get purples has more value than another player and his “adds” attacking your group and you healing / tanking / dps’ing them down and getting purples. Are we as a majority marginalizing a minority because we don’t understand them? As a minority with no perceived voice do we have an ingrained complex of inferiority based on the society in which we game? I’ve seen many a PvE player chastise the Vodka’s and Method’s of the world, the same way they chastise the Swifty’s, Vurtne’s and Neilyo’s of the world. Yet as much as they loathe them and disparage them, they admire them as well. TLDR: Why is PvE “better” thank PvP, or vice versa. Thoughts?
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 12:01:58 ·
Nick D Premium join:2010-02-04 Orange, CA	I'm more interested in solving puzzles and executing strategies than I am in proving I am better at a task than some other person. I don't have a real competitive streak. Thus, I go for PVE, which is mostly solving a puzzle. A boss will react the same way every time. And I do not particularly enjoy PVP, where it's more about reaction than proactive planning. Which one's better depends on what you value, really.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 12:20:22 ·
Immer Gentleman Premium join:2010-01-07 Evans, GA kudos:6 Reviews: ·Comcast	said by Nick D: Which one's better depends on what you value, really. I like solving puzzles, finishing a story, and triumphing over evil. I like leading and supporting a group of people to accomplish a goal. I abhor pvp. It's like basketball to me. No single score stands out over any other... in the end you get an overall win/lose, but it has simply been a back-and-forth tit-for-tat 2pts, 3pts, 1pt (penalty shots). Sure, we can highlight film a spectactularish dunk...2pts. no more significant than the lay-up. You have to add some sense of outside "in yo face" emotion to get anything out of it... only to have the other team go do the same thing somewhere else while you gloat over your 2pts. FTM classes are like having the genetic advantage of veing 6'6" with an 1' vertical leap... of course you can slam dunk. You would think the RGB concept would feed my desire to lead/support a team... but no. There is no end goal for pvp to make it worth my while. And after watching the first 15seconds of one of Athene's videos... yeah... the overall mentality of a hardcore pvper is hideous to me. So when I see the /spit, the mushroom stamp, or whatever is considered fun(ny) to those who love pvp... I shake my head, roll my eyes... and pity them as individuals. Athene is a loser... who happens to be pretty good at pvp... still a loser. like "ochocinco" or "metaworldpeace". -- Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US) Guild leader for Pride and Ego than/then \| to/two/too \| A lot (notice the space in there) \| you/your/you're
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 12:37:10 ·
Snuffbox ir nice irl Premium join:2011-04-15 Milwaukee, WI kudos:4	reply to Nick D said by Nick D: I'm more interested in solving puzzles and executing strategies than I am in proving I am better at a task than some other person. I would respect this more if PvE players didn't simply youtube/read what first progression guilds had already provided. The above IMO is rarely true, and just as much "competition" as PvP is comparing progression against other guilds. As a severely PvP oriented player, I can appreciate the guilds that are the FIRST to learn and complete a raid. After that, you spend the following months/years playing SCRIPTED fights that DBM can narrate for you over and over and still seeing wipes due to ignorant uneducated clickers that can't avoid the fire because it's green now instead of purple. Yes... Inb4elitist.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 12:54:51 ·
Rhenai join:2010-09-07 Elkhorn, NE kudos:1	said by Snuffbox: said by Nick D: I'm more interested in solving puzzles and executing strategies than I am in proving I am better at a task than some other person. I would respect this more if PvE players didn't simply youtube/read what first progression guilds had already provided. Going to dispute this a bit, Snuff. Really? You have to know, one of the first things anyone is told when they are new to any instance, and trying to understand the mechanics of the fight are - "go look it up on YouTube, noob". The resources are there for a reason, not just to share personal wins, but to show others how it's done. It's not always about the satisfaction of being the first/best, but just being able to be competitive, and carry your own weight, and experience the instance for yourself, NOT just watching it in a movie. You can tell me all you want that to win, it's simply - don't stand in the fire. But unless I can see for myself where to go, when and how, that just doesn't cut it. -- “I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul"
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:05:28 ·
cymraeg Thread Killer Premium join:2011-06-07 Dodge, NE Reviews: ·Great Plains Com..	reply to Snuffbox prior to Mists the majority of Youtube vids are pvp based, from optimal builds to rotations and just plain watching matches or Bgs, i say prior to Mists because builds are going to be less dominate, they are pretty much easy to figure out when the PVP talents are obvious, but PVPers watch them just as much as Pvers -- Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau! I've lost the bleeps, I've lost the creeps and I've lost the sweeps.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:09:42 ·
Goldheart join:2002-06-09 Rio Rancho, NM kudos:1	reply to Arthritis I don't like PvP as I am not really good at it. Still mostly a clicker, and I have little idea how to best combat all the classes and specs in one on one or group combat. Offhand I would say people who like first person shooters enjoy PvP more. As for me I am more of a strategy and tactics player. I'm more of an old style RPGer, projecting a heroic fantasy toon. PvE fits in that mindset a lot better. As for the perceived uptick in general negativity, it does seem that overall there has been some increase in this from my point of view. I hesitate to lay blame on any particular trend or group as I really don't have all the facts. Perhaps it is just the general poor economic environment weighing on everyone.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:09:47 ·

JB Everyday Normal Guy join:2009-05-14	reply to Snuffbox PvP - May the best 'op' class/spec stackers and exploiters win. Same shit, different season. -- Here's the final bullet, to put our love to death.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:13:20 ·
Snuffbox ir nice irl Premium join:2011-04-15 Milwaukee, WI kudos:4 1 edit	reply to Arthritis said by Arthritis: I equate both PvE & PvP play styles at the high level to actually playing chess, but with different changing dynamics. Both are equally challenging and rewarding. I respectfully disagree. Completely disagree. Take the single best Raider, and place him in Arena. Then take the single best Arena player, and place him in a Progression Raid. Arena takes knowledge of every class, all of the abilities, when to dismantle, what to spell steal, what to purge, when to kite, when to CC, what abilities share DR's. DR counters, focus macros (for every single one of my offensive abilities), what to and not to trinket, forcing defensive cooldowns before blowing offensive cds, etc etc etc - I could go on forever. Then a high level arena player in a progression SCRIPTED Raid, watch a youtube video on the fight and within 30 minutes be able to top meters and down the encounter. This isn't speculation, I do this regularly. This doesn't mean I don't mess up - I do, but I can complete the encounter that evening competitively. While a Raider in arena won't break 1600 in 3 weeks because DBM didn't tell him to blink the stun (magesitstunforfun?), or juke a cast (lolwat?), or trinket strangulate (youcandothat?) etc etc etc.... Yes, I expect this to be upsetting to some readers.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:14:38 ·
Snuffbox ir nice irl Premium join:2011-04-15 Milwaukee, WI kudos:4	reply to Rhenai said by Rhenai: You can tell me all you want that to win, it's simply - don't stand in the fire. But unless I can see for myself where to go, when and how, that just doesn't cut it. Forgive my confusion, but I believe you supported my argument more so then disputed it. While you're correct, I did dumb down enounters in that it's not as simple as "avoid fire" but ultimately, fire is in 80% (made up percentage that's fairly accurate) of encounters. Watch youtube video: Video says download DMB, beat enrage, avoid spikes, run towards healers during phase 2, avoid purple fire, stand in yellow fire, heroism, profit. Show a comparable arena video that can explain the non scripted fight that actually requires SIGNIFICANT class knowledge of not only your character, but ALL other characters and abilities you coud potentially face.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:21:14 ·
Immer Gentleman Premium join:2010-01-07 Evans, GA kudos:6 Reviews: ·Comcast	reply to Snuffbox I agree that there are a lot of technical things to master in order to be competitive in arenas. kudos. I also hear it is extremely complicated to rob a high-security bank in broad daylight without getting caught. Kudos to the mastery,... ultimately meaningless to those not interested in that "challenge"
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:21:48 ·
Snuffbox ir nice irl Premium join:2011-04-15 Milwaukee, WI kudos:4	said by Immer: I agree that there are a lot of technical things to master in order to be competitive in arenas. kudos. I also hear it is extremely complicated to rob a high-security bank in broad daylight without getting caught. Kudos to the mastery,... ultimately meaningless to those not interested in that "challenge" I agree Immer - If "rated" means nothing to you, that aspect won't be meaningful to you, obviously. But the same leadership roles that are attractive to you exist in Arena too. Except I don't explain the fight for 30 minutes before the encounter begins. I have to make split second decisions based on what's going on, I announce burst, counter spell, poly, fear, dead player. So I am debating skill, NOT "satisfaction" as that will be personally based. Scripted encounter is scripted, I don't think there's much more that can be argued from a comparative skill standpoint....
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:24:54 ·
Immer Gentleman Premium join:2010-01-07 Evans, GA kudos:6 Reviews: ·Comcast	true. You effectively squashed the comparative skill point. I was just pointing back to the issue of preference and personality (bluntly, I admit... it's been a rough week). edit: I do like seeing you post more. shame it has to be pvp related.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:26:43 ·
Snuffbox ir nice irl Premium join:2011-04-15 Milwaukee, WI kudos:4	To be clear then, I am 100% NOT trying to tell players what they should enjoy more... Only what I believe to be more skill based... that is it... sorry if I am the only one debating skill? Enjoy what you find fun... even if it's simply exploring the map and not participating in PvP or PvE.... EDIT: Work has been rough, and I simply have not had time for the forums. I miss you too.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:28:33 ·
Slydermv join:2010-03-11 Thunder Bay, ON	reply to Snuffbox said by Snuffbox: said by Rhenai: You can tell me all you want that to win, it's simply - don't stand in the fire. But unless I can see for myself where to go, when and how, that just doesn't cut it. Forgive my confusion, but I believe you supported my argument more so then disputed it. While you're correct, I did dumb down enounters in that it's not as simple as "avoid fire" but ultimately, fire is in 80% (made up percentage that's fairly accurate) of encounters. Watch youtube video: Video says download DMB, beat enrage, avoid spikes, run towards healers during phase 2, avoid purple fire, stand in yellow fire, heroism, profit. Show a comparable arena video that can explain the non scripted fight that actually requires SIGNIFICANT class knowledge of not only your character, but ALL other characters and abilities you coud potentially face. I'd agree with this. PvPer's a likely, overall, better gamers when PvEer's. Their reaction time is better, they use way more key binds, and situational abilities, and know those abilities inside and out, and are much more aware of their surroundings. That's not to say world first PvEer's wouldn't compete. I bet they would do rather well, becasue they have to be on top of their game to get those world first. But yeah... Give me 10 well ranked arena players, spec em for PvE, we'd raise shit up and be ahead of most PvE guilds IMO. I can't, with any confidence, say the reverse is true
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:30:36 ·
Immer Gentleman Premium join:2010-01-07 Evans, GA kudos:6	lol... way more...
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:32:38 ·
Snuffbox ir nice irl Premium join:2011-04-15 Milwaukee, WI kudos:4	reply to Slydermv Again... my interpretation of the OP's "Better" appears to be different. OP, sorry if I derailed topic it was not intentional. I would specify whether you're looking for "which is more enjoyable and why" or "which requires more skill and why". Thanks Immer, didn't mean to get things heated
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:33:57 ·
captokita Premium join:2005-02-22 Calabash, NC	reply to Rhenai said by Rhenai: Really? You have to know, one of the first things anyone is told when they are new to any instance, and trying to understand the mechanics of the fight are - "go look it up on YouTube, noob". And why would I want to do that? Sure, for some, they don't care, and just want to "win". ME, I want to experience the content, not watch it on youtube. Why have the game at all then when you can just watch it all on youtube? How can you have a sense of accomplishment when you just blindly follow along a video? I want to be surprised by a giant beast/boss that first time, not just be a blind robot that says "Ok, here comes a big one....." Some people take this stuff WAAAAY too seriously. Go into a battleground, and when things go south there is no end of "You people suck" "This group is gay" etc, etc. They have plenty of time to type, but not to fight apparently. quote: The resources are there for a reason, not just to share personal wins, but to show others how it's done. It's not always about the satisfaction of being the first/best, but just being able to be competitive, and carry your own weight, and experience the instance for yourself, NOT just watching it in a movie. Just as for some, it's about playing a game and enjoying it, not worrying about being the best.
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:36:16 ·
Immer Gentleman Premium join:2010-01-07 Evans, GA kudos:6 1 edit	reply to Snuffbox interestingly enough... your post painted the perfect picture of what you get out of pvp, though. To the point that I really can't hate on you like I do Athene...
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:36:24 ·
Slydermv join:2010-03-11 Thunder Bay, ON	reply to Arthritis Ahhh yeah... thanks. I like PvE more myself as well... but having dabble in PvP for the last while, it has definatly upped my game. I recommend it to anyone who loves PvE and wants to get better!
	to forum · permalink · 2012-05-23 13:39:02 ·

Tech and Talk > Gaming > World of Warcraft > Player Mindsets - PvE vs. PvP (Which is Better?)

Player Mindsets - PvE vs. PvP (Which is Better?)