dslreports logo
site
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc

spacer




how-to block ads


Search Topic:
uniqs
11
share rss forum feed


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to baineschile

Re: I am a betting man

Or they'll find some way to fool the ad detection technology.

Either way, Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

Dish isn't trying to "get away" with anything.

The industry is.

Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.

The industry wants to control what those customers do in their own homes. Dish is on the moral and correct side.... which means, they'll probably lose... This is America!
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


SilentMan

join:2002-07-15
New York, NY
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:

Or they'll find some way to fool the ad detection technology.

Either way, Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.

It's so easy to buy a TV capture card, install it on a PC and record the program; then download a video editing software to edit out all the commercials and then make a new ISO of the program, commercial free!

Oh! And if you like it so much that it needs to be preserved for posterity, the ISO only needs to be burned onto a blank DVD

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 edit
reply to KrK

said by KrK:

Dish isn't trying to "get away" with anything.

The industry is.

Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.

Actually what Dish is doing probably will be considered copyright infringement by the courts because there is a fundamental difference with the Betamax decision. Individual viewers using their already existing ability to skip commercials involves personal use rather than the profit motive. Dish is without permission altering copyrighted broadcasts for profit.


KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK

They aren't altering anything.

There is no grounds to copyright infringement claims.

The full recording is unaltered. The user can, at their discretion, can turn on a feature that will skip playback of parts of the recording. It will NOT change the recording or alter it in any way. No alteration of the work, no copyright infringement.

The Studios are going to use this case to try and roll back the Sony Betamax case that allowed recordings for home use as fair use. They would LOVE to overthrow this, as it would make ANY recording illegal unless they specifically allow it (IE you pay extra for it.)

They would LOVE to have previous precedents thrown out. Here's hoping it doesn't happen.

If watching a show at a different time from when it airs, and skipping commercials mean they label me a pirate, fine, I embrace piracy.... because it isn't and I know it.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA

1 recommendation

said by KrK:

The full recording is unaltered.

Actually the broadcast is altered because it is recorded without the commercials and it's Dish (not the consumer) doing it to make a profit. A court ruling against Dish wouldn't change the precedent in the Betamax decision that VCRs and their fast forwarding controls have non-infringing uses and that non-commercial personal use of such devices is a fair use exception of copyright law.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
reply to fifty nine

said by fifty nine:


Dish won't get away with this for very long, at least not until it's time to renew retransmission agreements.

Speaking of renewing those agreements, what major station group in their right mind is going to allow Dish to keep doing this unless Dish is willing to pay them at Disney / ESPN levels? DirecTV and the cable companies will be more than willing to accept the additional business if Dish can no longer carry ABC, CBS, FOX, and NBC.


rchandra
Stargate Universe fan
Premium
join:2000-11-09
14225-2105
reply to SilentMan

See mythcommflag



fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to KrK

said by KrK:

Dish is merely trying to give it's customers what they want.

Dish doesn't own the content they are reselling. They can't give the customers what they want just because they want to.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2
reply to fifty nine

The bottom line is that this is completely unworkable if it becomes widespread.

Prepare to either see ads become intrusive and placed while the shows are running (on top of them) or you will simply pay the real cost per channel. This means it will cost around $15-$20 per channel to watch TV.

You think retrans fee disputes are bad now? Dish just knocked over a hornet's nest.

Charlie is biting the hand that's feeding him, plain and simple.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to Sammer

No, the broadcast is recorded with the commercials. The consumer can then skip them if they so wish.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to fifty nine

If they try that, they'll lose tons of viewers. One day people are going to realize they don't need crap or they'll learn they aren't going to pay more then it's worth.

Then the "Content Kings" will find out they need to compete and deliver on what consumers want.

This may mean the end of good programming, but then again most of us would not watch much of it anymore. It will come full circle.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini


Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
reply to KrK

said by KrK:

No, the broadcast is recorded with the commercials. The consumer can then skip them if they so wish.

Does the specific control Dish provides allow one to do something such as skip through public domain programming? No it has one sole (infringing) purpose of deleting all commercials from a copyrighted broadcast and Dish is without permission trying to make a profit from it. Saying the consumer has a choice doesn't change that.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
reply to SilentMan

said by SilentMan:

It's so easy to buy a TV capture card, install it on a PC and record the program; then download a video editing software to edit out all the commercials and then make a new ISO of the program, commercial free!

PCs, TV capture cards, video editing software, etc. all have non-infringing uses. What non-infringing use does this new technology that deletes all commercials from a copyrighted broadcast have?

Ghostmaker1

join:2011-07-11
Brunswick, OH
reply to Sammer

Sammer

It doesn't remove the commercial. The recorder just auto skips them. The commercials are still there. Not much different then skipping manually.



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to Sammer

You're missing the point.

Nothing is deleted. There is no infringement. What you are arguing is akin to saying that unless people sit and watch commercials they are committing copyright infringement.... better not get up, go to the bathroom or grab a drink, you're not watching the commercial.... you PIRATE

No. No infringement. None.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



KrK
Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy
Premium
join:2000-01-17
Tulsa, OK
reply to fifty nine

They have paid for the right to transmit the content. They may not own it, but they have paid for it, and so therefore, can provide it the way customers want.... at least, until the content kings engage in anti-trust action to stop them.

What I suspect will happen is when the agreements come up for re-negotiating they will attempt to punish Dish and force them to disable this feature. Dish has handed themselves a protracted and expensive legal battle, but if they win it, then it will be of benefit for consumers everywhere. Go Dish.
--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini



Doctor Olds
I Need A Remedy For What's Ailing Me.
Premium,VIP
join:2001-04-19
1970 442 W30
kudos:18
reply to Sammer

said by Sammer:

said by KrK:

The full recording is unaltered.

Actually the broadcast is altered because it is recorded without the commercials and it's Dish (not the consumer) doing it to make a profit.

Care to show where you read that it deletes/doesn't record the commercials? Skip does not equal delete/not record. It seems you do not understand the technology and how it actually works.
--
What’s the point of owning a supercar if you can’t scare yourself stupid from time to time?

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
reply to KrK

said by KrK:

You're missing the point.

Nothing is deleted. There is no infringement. What you are arguing is akin to saying that unless people sit and watch commercials they are committing copyright infringement.... better not get up, go to the bathroom or grab a drink, you're not watching the commercial.... you PIRATE

No you are missing the point that the Betamax decision was based on technology that also had non-infringing uses and even what the movie studios considered infringing was a fair use exception by consumers who were not attempting to make any profit from the technology. Only Dish (not consumers) is being sued for copyright infringement. Consumers going to the bathroom doesn't make them pirates and is completely irrelevant to the point.

Sammer

join:2005-12-22
Canonsburg, PA
reply to Doctor Olds

said by Doctor Olds:

Care to show where you read that it deletes/doesn't record the commercials? Skip does not equal delete/not record. It seems you do not understand the technology and how it actually works.

It doesn't matter whether it's called deleting, altering, or skipping it is an automated process that has no non-infringing purpose. As I pointed out in another post a fast forward control could allow you to fast forward through a program that is in the public domain. The court also granted you as a consumer (not Dish) a fair use exception that allows you to use the same fast forward control with copyrighted broadcasts.

TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26
Springfield, MO
Reviews:
·Mediacom

1 recommendation

reply to Sammer

You have to stop using the word 'delete.' It is factually inaccurate because nothing is actually deleted. The recording is not altered in any way.

Also, it's not 100% automatic. The consumer still has to activate the feature for it to work. How is that any different than fast-forwarding through the commercials manually?