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kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

3 edits
reply to kilrathi

Re: [TWC] packet loss / service degraded - amp in rockaway park,

Another definite pattern I discovered that every week since end of may around tuesday is when upstream snr drops the most, basically tuesdays upstream completely dies after 8pm and then it may show up working shorty over night but things wont be back to operational internet until next morning, last night was no exception. I am wondering if specifically calibrated amplifier or something at the plant side changes values based on time of day but also weekly whatever is occuring on tuesdays caues upstream snr to be the worst of any day during the week....

Oh and I have mostly confirmed this with t3 techs(depends who I talk to sometimes though some wont reveal actual upstream snr values of course)

Something happened overnight in addition to usual problems as even now the modem is receiving ton of t3 time outs and i have constant packet loss(all upstream) even at 9am usually during day things would calm down.

in addition constant spam of this in the logs:

Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Unicast Maintenance opportunities received - T4 time out

besides usual tests i also tried visualroute tests and got all these warnings too heh:

SQTR01: The data flow for this test is too erratic

Although the speed achieved may match expectation for the connection, a low data flow QoS score means that the data flow between the server and the workstation was not consistent. There can be several reasons for this such as data congestion along the route or data loss which invokes recovery. The lower the QoS percentage, the more erratic the data flow. Many applications can be severely affected by poor data flow quality regardless of data throughput speed, for example media applications such as video or voice may become jerky. Voice (VoIP) telephony will become garbled. If you suspect that the connection was in use by another application try running the test again to validate if the problem is persistent.

Learn More

SQMD01: TCP is waiting too long for data

The test recorded a TCP maximum delay that exceeded the natural TCP forced idle delay as a result of the connection's trip time. This indicates that there may be problems with consistent data flow between the server and the client. A poor data flow QoS reading is also likely if the max TCP delay is much higher in comparisons to the trip time. Common reasons for this type of problem are packet loss and duplicates. The test graph view will show the TCP delay over the time of the test. Height and width of the 'orange' delay line shows the delay consistency.

Learn More

SQRT01: Retransmit Timeout greater than 0

Retransmit Timeouts cause major problems for applications and should always be zero for a quality connection. A timeout is a packet level alarm that occurs when the sending TCP (download data) has not had confirmation that the sent packet(s) have been received.

Learn More

SQPR01: Packets Retransmitted greater than 0

Packets Retransmitted reports the number of packets that have been resent from the sending end. It does necessarily mean that the retransmit was caused by a timeout (which is the worst type of retransmit, see Retransmit Timeout) it can also be a fast retransmit. Both signify a quality problem on the connection, retransmits occur if packets are lost or late and consume bandwidth slowing application performance. Imagine a phone call where the line quality was so bad that you keep asking the other party to repeat what they just said. This will cause the call to take much longer to complete as a result of all the retransmitted information.

SQBR01: Bytes Retransmitted greater than 0

Bytes Retransmitted reports the quantity of bytes that have been resent by the sender. It does necessarily mean that the retransmit was a timeout it can also be a fast retransmit. Retransmits occur if packets are lost or late which can include acknowledgement packets. Imagine a phone call where the line quality was so bad that you keep asking the other party to repeat what they just said. This will cause the call to take much longer to complete as a result of all the retransmitted information.

SQPO01: Packets not in order greater than 0

Packets not in order cause a problems because TCP data must be processed in order. It could be that the missing packet contains the decimal point for your pay packet! Or it is a frame in movie that you are watching. As soon as data is out of order all packets that follow the missing data can no longer be processed until the missing data is recovered.

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SQBL01: Bytes Lost greater than 0

Bytes lost report packets that are missing resulting in all the following packets being out-of-order. This obviously causes a problem because TCP data must be processed in order. For example it could be that the missing packet contains the decimal point for your pay packet! Or it is a frame in a movie that you are watching. As soon as data is out of order all packets that follow the missing data can no longer be processed until the missing data is recovered.

Learn More



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

So I speak with client relations again, mention the fact tier 3 techs send in notes regarding clear upstream snr issue and logs, all that information is available for my modem on their end, I was clearly told all the daily weekly hourly logs are there and they clearly show upstream snr for my upstream channels dropping below accepted levels every night and even some days, also logs show uncorrectable codewords at high numbers daily for the upstream(this can only be seen on plant side) as well indicating noise. T3 even told me for few nights average packet loss on the upstream to my modem was 8-25%.

However, even based on all of this client relations scheduled another tech to visit me(even though t3 tech said that really a plent tech should look into this). Now, I had about 10 tech visits over past month+ 1 of them actually did take readings at the tap/pole and found issue(plant tech supposedly supposed to do something about that but I never received confirmation anything was ever done regarding this). All other techs basically rewired my apt. Not sure how many times you can drop new wire but I already have 2 new wires running to the house, 1 of them is disconnected at the house but basically 1 running from each pole/tap on the street. All the wiring is new, connection is only on 1 splitter(+8dB/out) installed by tw tech due to signal being too strong and thats it. Client relations told me tech has to come again because then only he can recommend plant to do something.... SO even though all the data is there indicating upstrean snr issue, its all logged its all in logs at t3/plant side a service tech is the only one that can recommend plant tech to look into the issue.... mind boggling. I hope the tech they send actually knows difference between what ping and packet loss is, because some that have been to my house did not know it.

Verizon confirmed they can run fios to me since its available but would have to run a new line and install box at side of the house because phone lines are ran from the back and from that side fios is not available. This would cost me extra and thus I am trying to avoid it but tw may truly give me no choice here.


nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX

By this point have you even asked for service credits because you have had so many problems? I would



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

Yes althogh I wanted to ask once its fixed so that I could clearly ask for how many days but since its beyond a month and not fixed I will receive 50% off for last month but as for future I will not be paying until something is done and how that will go I dont know.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

1 edit
reply to kilrathi

I am pretty confident the noise that causes problems on upstream resulting in constant packet loss occurs only on those 2 channels that lock at 64QAM at 30.6megahertz and 23.8megahertz. Those are the 2 channels that t3 techs told me drop in upstream snr the most but those 2 channels lock 64QAM as soon as upstream snr is higher after 5 am until 8pm. During this time there is constant packet loss on the upstream to the tune of 2-4%. During the night as long as upstream snr dont drop below 22 or 23 things are kinda ok since all channels drop to 16QAM but some nights such as tuesdays snr drops below 18 causing internet to actually stop working.

However, I have manipulated adding more splitters to the point where the 2 channels with higher modulation get T4 time out and I am left locked only at 19000000 Hz channel which uses only 16QAM modulation. When only this channel is operational I have no packet loss (did numerous tests on pingtest and visualtrace). Things are great with only that channel working on the upstream and I still hit max upstream speed. However, as soon as i remove splitters and allow the modem to lock on all channels operating including the 2 channels ATDMA locked at 64QAM there is constant packet loss.

Tier 3 tech understands it but how do I get client relations or tech to explain to plant tech and have someone trace where the noise occurs, I wish there was a way for them to send a custom config to my modem so it only locks at the 16QAM channels, that would solve my issue it appears.

I am really pissed because when I hook up bunch of splitters and get only the 1 or 2 16QAM TDMA channels locked for upstream i have no issues, but that only lasts so long before modem reboots due to t4 for the other 2 atdma channels and once those channels are locked 64QAM I have constant upstream pacekt loss.... I seriously wish there was way to downgrade to only using those 2 lower modulation channels.... its clear the lines here locally are not read for 64QAM upstream modulation just yet.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

Just called level t3 tech, a guy who already knows me to check upstream snr because i lost internet(modem stayed locked but actual data was not flowing due to upstream problems).

Now its back in limited capacity and this is what is happening, different day same story for past 1 and half months on time warner ultimate internet:



All that packet loss is on the upstream. Level 3 tech told me upstream snr on all 4 channels for the upstream is dropping below 19 and the worst is the 30.6mhz and 23.9mhz channels(higher modulation ones). Its friday I supposed to stream and cast few coh and dow2 matches and cannot do jack, i cant even browse sites normally. Tech forwarded information again to supervisor and hope to get new client relation rep as last one just wants to send normal techs to me after about 10 of them already confirmed for past month that my wiring is good, cable was replaced twice, its not on my end that the problem lies.


nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX

Seriously by this point is it really worth all this pain to continue trying to work with TWC?

Just drop them since they aren't doing their job and switch to FiOS. I would make sure to get another big credit out of it before you call to cancel with TWC.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

twc called me today on satruday with new client rep assigned to me, seems t3 emailed supervisor and send all the logs to someone and now i am supposed to get tech along with plant tech to come on wed. As for verizon fios yes its available but only in the form of having coaxal ran and doing vdsl or whatever its called plus they would have to do some work at the house etc and earliest i can even get it i was told would be after september, but with vdsl the speeds from what i read are not that great, anyways i am gonna see what happens this week.


nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX

said by kilrathi:

twc called me today on satruday with new client rep assigned to me, seems t3 emailed supervisor and send all the logs to someone and now i am supposed to get tech along with plant tech to come on wed. As for verizon fios yes its available but only in the form of having coaxal ran and doing vdsl or whatever its called plus they would have to do some work at the house etc and earliest i can even get it i was told would be after september, but with vdsl the speeds from what i read are not that great, anyways i am gonna see what happens this week.

Good to hear that perhaps you might be making some progress with actually getting a plant tech out. If the flavor of FiOS that you can get is only vDSL well that stinks. Definitely isn't as good as FTTP.


kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

I have the tech and supposedly plant tech supposed to be on call to coordinate today. I called tonight to escalation t3 tech and spoke to the same tech I have for past 2 months asking him to double check the logs, and yep nothing have changed same pattern. Upstream snr on my modem drops below 24dB every night as low as 18. The worst is around midnight, but the upstream snr is below 24 between 8pm and 8am every day more or less for past 2 MONTHS. (during that time modem is full of T3/T4 errors, no suprise of course). Regional/node upstream snr is fine there is no drop. Issue been verified many times that it does not occur at my house or wiring. So basically I hope they actually bring someone who can take readings and trace at the poles and lines themselves. I thought maybe its some cable thats no longer used hanging near street light etc as there are few I have seen as I walked around. I will ask them to check but they should do their job not me.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

3 edits
reply to kilrathi

so an army of time warner techs arrived today at noon, 2 plant tech vans and 1 twc regular tech, of course i explained them whats going on and they confirmed it based on logs sent to them by supervisor and escalation t3 tech, plant techs actually understood what I was talking about and we discussed why some things are happening based on logs, but they ruled out the fact it maybe street lights and that most likely its someone everynight turning something on that is causing noise back to the tw line locally near me. However, I told this to the customer rep and t3 tech recommended a plant tech came after 8pm best time window wuold be 10pm to midnight. The plant techs that were here discussed the situation and tonight another plant tech supposed to come by after 9pm he will call me and monitor the upstream snr overnight he wants to be locally when the problem occurs thats the only chance he can narrow down where the problem occurs from. So tonight will be interesting finally a plan that actually may tackle the problem or at least narrow its origins.

update:

So I waited till past midnight and noone called and I have not seen any tw vehicles around.... so this whole visit during day where customer rep made sure plant techs would come turned to nothing.... plant tech told me they called in and scheduled another plant tech to come after 9pm EST tonight and even asked me if I allow them to call me that late which of course I said YES. The packet loss is occuring and upstream snr is down just as every night(verified by calling escalation t3 center) so this was perfect opportunity....

Not sure what to think of this but they promised to have a plant tech late tonight so he can try and find out whats causing the noise at night yet noone showed up.

Just when I think something is looking up....:(



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

There is a plant tech tonight riding around blocks here cutting down old unused cables and using a meter to look for noise, I spoke with him already and he will give me a call later tonight when he is done doing some initial testing in area. I aleady told him my upstream snr dropped below what it should be (tier 3 provided the info) as in below 24dB and during day it was at 30, its gonna dip lower and lower so I hope when he comes around soon he can check the tap where I am hooked up to. He said that monitoring all the regional info all upstream snr there is in 30/green, he was unable to read my modem upstream snr in his van though so I may have to call tier 3 again later but he said he should be able to do that once he has account info once he is at my street. I am hoping he can find out the cause of this noise, took it nearly 2 months to get a plant tech here to try and find the reason for the noise so I will do whatever I can to not waste this opportunity, will update later.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

4 edits
reply to kilrathi

I also noticed this on network status page:

Degraded Service Outtages

7/19/2012 7:53:00 PM

QUEENS, THE 11700-12300 BLOCKS OF NEWPORT AVE THE 200 AND 400 BLOCKS OF BEACH 119TH ST THE 200 AND 400 BLOCKS OF BEACH 122ND ST

This is only 10 streets away from here, so I wonder if this is related at all.

live update lol: he just called me that he spot source of the noise and he just wanted to let me know that he is heading to its location but he will call me later at night he has to supposedly track it down fast before he loses it(something like that he said). This is great news I have to say, I told him he can call me all night if needed.

Same time as he called me my internet disconnected for moment, well modem lock stayed on but log is full of t3/t4 errors more than usual.

update The plant tech called again and said that something else came up and he is needed but he will be here tomorrow night to continue the work, he said that he tracked down the noise thats affecting me and its actually in their system on 115th street which is 3 streets away from where I live. He said he will call me again tomorrow with an update. I consider this a great news, waiting for tomorrow, cant wait for this to be finally fixed and looks like finally it may happen.


nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX

said by kilrathi:

I also noticed this on network status page:

Degraded Service Outtages

7/19/2012 7:53:00 PM

QUEENS, THE 11700-12300 BLOCKS OF NEWPORT AVE THE 200 AND 400 BLOCKS OF BEACH 119TH ST THE 200 AND 400 BLOCKS OF BEACH 122ND ST

This is only 10 streets away from here, so I wonder if this is related at all.

live update lol: he just called me that he spot source of the noise and he just wanted to let me know that he is heading to its location but he will call me later at night he has to supposedly track it down fast before he loses it(something like that he said). This is great news I have to say, I told him he can call me all night if needed.

Same time as he called me my internet disconnected for moment, well modem lock stayed on but log is full of t3/t4 errors more than usual.

update The plant tech called again and said that something else came up and he is needed but he will be here tomorrow night to continue the work, he said that he tracked down the noise thats affecting me and its actually in their system on 115th street which is 3 streets away from where I live. He said he will call me again tomorrow with an update. I consider this a great news, waiting for tomorrow, cant wait for this to be finally fixed and looks like finally it may happen.

Excellent! Finally sounds like you will actually get your problem fixed! Keep us up to date


Rook008
Miles To Go
Premium
join:2002-02-05
Far Rockaway, NY
reply to kilrathi

Good news.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

update late night, i think maybe the issue plant tech found was resolved over night because at 1am strange stuff was going on with the modem partial channel service modem going crazy in the logs then at 2:54 am everyting cut off for brief moment twice and now 2 of the higher symbol rate atdma upsream channels actually show 64QAM which never happened at this hour in the night for past 2 months, also so far every test I ran shows perfect connection no packet loss, stuff I could only dream of for past 2 months.... gonna verify tomorrow whether they actually resolved the noise on the system that the plant tech found earlier in the evening, but so far things look that way.

I hope this is it!


nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX

Well do you have any updates for us on this epic thread?



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

Yes, evertyhing is much better since friday 3am. Tech called mast night said they fixed the noise and it was quite bad but the reason it only magnified at night was due to balancing and more usage the noise was more visible but the noise occured all the time, and it was basically bunch of old wires hooked up to taps and not terimianted but instead some near electricity and causing a lot of noise into the system. There is clear difference right now since htat was done, no more t3/t4 errors upstream channels stay at higher modulation at night(2 that are higher) and upstream snr lowest it got last night based on t3 tech was 27, where before it would hit 18. Of course I am waiting full weekend to get more clear logs and data to look at.


nephipower

join:2012-02-20
San Antonio, TX

Awesome, I'm really happy to hear that you finally got a resolution to your problem!



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

Upstream SNR is now improved and while I was celebrating I noticed packet loss tonight in range of 2-3% and when I tried to broadcast and cast a game stream would be cut off every minute.

I called T3 and upstream snr is fine but they told me looks like the modem keeps hopping upstream channels and this is causing error rate, this is horrible, this is also why I think ever since upstream channel bonding kicked in I noticed packet loss issues. Now the lower snr magnified the issue but looks like the damn problem still exists and its direct result of upstream channel bonding and the way channel hop from one to another, I cannot play game and stream currently I simply get disconnected or lag badly when channels switch and stream gets cut off...

I am gonna try to find out if its possible for plant to push custom config so that it only uses 1 upstream channel for me(I will still hit 5Mbit upstream no problem, after all thats how it was until may) because currently time warner here the plant does not seem to have upstream configuration properly done, this kind of problem shouldnt happen, i am confident if I was only 1 channel upstream I would not have this problem.



swintec
Premium,VIP
join:2003-12-19
Alfred, ME
kudos:5

Do you have any trace routes at this point that show packet loss, since the other nights maintenance?



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

2 edits
reply to kilrathi

»mcs2.reliablehosting.com/myspeed···ype=voip

Oh and I spoke with t3 and they also logging me and since thursday when noise was fixed upstream snr showing lowest 27 where before it would drop every night to 20.... however error rate on upstream and only upstream is back on today, and at same time the 2 higher modulation channels keep showing either 64QAM or 16QAM where during day its always 64QAM, t3 guy said that most likely channels are hopping on upstream and may cause this but he sees error rate between modem and plant on the upstream.

I actually have 2 lines ran 1 from each pole/tap on street and tried both same problem right now.

»www.pingtest.net/result/66813391.png

It may not sound bad when its 2-3% packet loss but for gaming wise its horrible especially since its upstream only sometimes you feel like you not even controlling anything further I normally broadcast and cast games for tourneys and other vs games but with this issue the broadcasts keeps cutting off and/or dropping frames.

I may have to give up broadcasting and shoutcasting games which is a shame because it was fun and I actually received some hardware from some tournament sponsors in return.

I may have to also go to lower tw package which is rr turbo 20/2 which uses docsis 2 modem and does not use upstream channel bonding to get rid of the packet loss so I can at least use voice communication and play games without constant problems.

I will call customer rep again tomorrow and maybe the plant tech to see if anything else can be done.

Only thing I have to find out whether rr turbo uses the 2.560 Msym/sec 16qam or 5.120 Msym/sec 64qam channel for upstream, I hope it is the lower modulation one as based on my observations for past 2 months and ever since upstream channel bonding kicked in those higher modulation ones at least here have packet loss issues. Few times I was locked only on the lower modulation channel or when all other T4 time out and when I was locked at only the 16QAM channel for a night there was 0 packet loss problems.

Yes speeds would be big let down from what I am getting now but at least I could game and voice comm without constant problems and packet loss, I could still cast games after I record them and upload them after the fact.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

1 edit
reply to kilrathi

sigh I guess there must be something else causing this packet loss maybe its simply occuring on the node itself since 10pm last night constant packet loss on the upstreadm, now its 5am and its still going:



morning 9 am and now I actually noticed when I traceroute on 5th hop of tw it actually stalls (and no i have name resolution off) and currently packet loss is actually getting worse:



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

3 edits
reply to kilrathi

Not sure whats going on but having hard time browsing and some voip tests or packet loss tests simply freeze.

In addition since last evening the modem is having constant spam of T3 errors (No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out).....

Now friday and saturday night and day everything was fine(after noise was fixed and upstream snr corrected) but this thing that started sunday evening could be maybe something else that just occured maybe on tw network here regionally or node.... not sure whats going on but I hope some time at least a week can go without problems...

Test Type: Voice over IP
Downstream Jitter: 0.5ms
Downstream Loss: 0 %
Upstream Jitter: 0.2ms
Upstream Loss: 5.2 %


It seems this maybe differnet problem than before because its going on into the day now..... before with the noise days were clean but this is going on and on...

Oh and signal levels etc are all same as for past 2 months except upstream snr now never drops below 27 since thursday night fixes(reading provided by t3 techs). So more and more points to something going on in tw network/plant/node or misconfiguration.....



DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:12
reply to kilrathi

said by kilrathi:

Only thing I have to find out whether rr turbo uses the 2.560 Msym/sec 16qam or 5.120 Msym/sec 64qam channel for upstream...

Turbo is only a change in the allowed bandwidth in the config file of the modem. All the same upstream channels will be used.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

1 edit

negative, t3 escalation center told me if I downgraded I would have to use docsis2 modem and only 1 channel is used, I asked him last night.

Further, I noticed this:

Red 7/23/2012 2:25:39 PM THE 5700 BLOCK OF SHORE FRONT PKY THE 100 BLOCK OF BEACH 59TH ST THE 5700 BLOCK OF SHORE FRONT PKWY under mainteance page, this is not far from here so I truly hope this is related because today all day I have t3 errors and packet loss, before today I didnt have issues like this during the day.

I spoke with client relations today and old issue is considered closed since back then packet loss was result of upstream snr being out of range, since that was fixed everything was great for 2 days. However this new problem is happening constantly since last night 9pm EST and its been happening entire day, upstream snr is within range(above 27) and all other signal levels are perfect and not changed. Thus bascially this is considered a *new issue* even though its affecting me in similar way a constant upstream packet loss.

Really really dissapointed that I only had 2 days of good service before another problem kicked in. The modem had about 200 or more T3 timeout errors through the day as well....



DrDrew
So that others may surf.
Premium
join:2009-01-28
SoCal
kudos:12

said by kilrathi:

negative, t3 escalation center told me if I downgraded I would have to use docsis2 modem and only 1 channel is used, I asked him last night.

True a DOCSIS 2 modem can only use a single upstream and single downstream at a time, but it WILL move between multiple channels as the CMTS commands it. Being DOCSIS 2 it can use either 16QAM or 64QAM channels. So moving to Turbo doesn't avoid your problem, it'll just randomly pop up as the CMTS commands your modem to use that particular degraded upstream channel, just like Wideband and Extreme tiers with DOCSIS 3 before upstream bonding was activated.
--
If it's important, back it up... twice. Even 99.999% availability isn't enough sometimes.


kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY

you maybe right is just an idea I have because frankly for 2 months now all I had is problems and now I had 2 days of good net was happy and now again a problem except now its constantly not just during nighttime.... currently packet loss is constant 2-7% and t3 timeout errors constantly, it took me 2 months to get plant tech to fix previous problem with upstream snr but this looks like new problem and i pray is something they are aware of because if I have to wait another 2 months to fix this problem then this is gotta be one of the worst isp experiences I could think of.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

That issue in far rockaway shows closed now but the packet loss continues, entire day no change.



kilrathi
Premium
join:2005-04-22
Rockaway Park, NY
reply to kilrathi

Yesterday jul 23 at 8pm est t3 time out errors stopped and had no issues with packet loss at all, so far entire day today been great. I wasnt aware but plant techs came tonight to let me know they were dispatched to look at my issue, however I had to tell them since yesterday everything is great after whatever was done in far rockaway.