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Skittles_t

join:2012-05-03
reply to Treebark

Re: [MoP] So when will it be released guys?

said by Treebark:

And I don't see how MoP could be rushed, they have had ample time to develop it with how stagnant this shit has been.

agreed


Immer
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said by Skittles_t:

said by Treebark:

And I don't see how MoP could be rushed, they have had ample time to develop it with how stagnant this shit has been.

agreed

If it is released in any sort of unfinished state it was rushed. 1+1=2
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

I'd rather hang out with friends and collect gear, mounts, and achievements that don't require me to beat up on the weaker kid.

Skittles_t

join:2012-05-03
said by Immer:

If it is released in any sort of unfinished state it was rushed. 1+1=2

duh....really? 1+1=2. Immer you're better than that. The statement was they had enough time to develop MoP since the content we have now is stale. They have already stated there would be no other major patches before MoP.

Also, it's not like Blizzard (or any other game company) have not released new content before it was thoroughly tested, rushing content is what developers do, though I admit Blizzard has a better track record than most, they still are guilty of it...


Immer
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1 edit
That, I am. It was foolish and self serving to assert that developers have had plenty of time to finish MoP based solely upon the amount of time that has elapsed since 4.3. The Beta doesn't even show all of the currently developed content. We have no metric for determining completeness... yet we are asserting that there is no way it could be rushed? folly.

I'd rather wait until early December for a quality product... than to QQ for a September release of a buggy product... then QQ through patch, after patch, after patch... leading up to December.

the 1+1=2 was abrasive... but it was my way of saying lets stick to basic principles of argument. "rushed" is time in relation to the quality of product, not so much the time elapsed since the last major patch.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

I'd rather hang out with friends and collect gear, mounts, and achievements that don't require me to beat up on the weaker kid.

Skittles_t

join:2012-05-03
There...see that is what I expect. Rational, well though out Immer, not Hulk smash Immer. ;0)

While I agree that there is no metric for determining completeness, I do believe based on time tables of past dates of releases that December would be late and that expecting a finished (or as finished as Blizzard can do) product in early fall is not rushing it.

Titan is an ongoing development project, D3 is out, no starcraft to worry about....so from 4.3's release to fall on an expansion they have long been working on is not a unreasonable expectation.

1+1=3....the cake is not a lie....just baking too long


puppy

join:2010-01-28
BTW as a software developer I just want to say it's often not easy/helpful to just throw more people onto another project, which a lot of managers seem to think.

Just because the other projects are done those developers probably still need to fix a lot of bugs/touch out/etc. To go into a new project usually involves ramp up time, unless they are using very standardized code base/engine/etc.

1 pregnant lady can make a baby in 9 months, but 9 ladies can't make one in 1 month.


Immer
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said by puppy:

1 pregnant lady can make a baby in 9 months, but 9 ladies can't make one in 1 month.

I love a good analogy... kudos.


bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
reply to Immer
Actually since it can be mathematically proven that 1 does not = 1 it is hard to say 1+1=2.

With the bugs and problems hitting D3 right now MoP may not be until fall or even holiday time frame. Plus, doesn't SC2 have an xpac coming out sometime? Heart of the swarm or something like that. Not to mention Titan's development. I'm not sure what Blizz's priority list is, but MoP may not be at the top.


Immer
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said by bTU:

Actually since it can be mathematically proven that 1 does not = 1 it is hard to say 1+1=2.

show me.


bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO
1/3 = .333 repeating out
.333r + .333r + .333r = .999 repeating, so 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = .999


Immer
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that's just silly.

1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 3/3 = 1

.333r + .333r + .333r = .999r != 1

1/3 ~ .999r (how well you can measure determines when to stop with the 9's)

1 ~ .999r

What you've demonstrated is the difficulty of measuring a piece of "1" not the precision of "1". good attempt, tho. It at least got my attention.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

I'd rather hang out with friends and collect gear, mounts, and achievements that don't require me to beat up on the weaker kid.


Nick D
Premium
join:2010-02-04
Orange, CA
.999r = 1, which is actually true because of infinity etc etc.
Wikipedia says so (in many, many ways)

But I do like immer's point on the matter. That's probably the right way to settle it without the maths.

THE INTERNETS WE HAS THEM


Arthritis

join:2011-10-20
Canada
reply to Dillinja
I’ll put my guess in for the fall of this year; it just makes too much sense to release it in October / November.
It will be interesting to see what happens to the player base. My guildies tell me that our server (which is usually quite busy), is absolutely dead. I don’t know how they plan to appease the player base with a 4-6 month wait.

For myself, I’m using the muscle confusion theory on my mind and taking a bipolar WoW gaming strategy to cope. I haven’t played “live” in a while, splitting my time between arena and playing on a private TBC server. If you’ve ever levelled a mage or healed during TBC, you know my pain (even with 14x experience modifiers).

There’s a reason why mages make water…..gah.

But Good times....


Immer
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1 edit
reply to Nick D
said by Nick D:

.999r = 1, which is actually true because of infinity etc etc.
Wikipedia says so (in many, many ways)

But I do like immer's point on the matter. That's probably the right way to settle it without the maths.

THE INTERNETS WE HAS THEM

fair enough. though from your own wiki (/shudder) reference, we need to look at the phrasing

The equality 0.999... = 1 has long been accepted by mathematicians and taught in textbooks

(emphasis mine).

They can be treated as equal, and should be treated as equal since their closeness is infinitesimally closer than we could hope to measure. However, if you are trying to use the limit to demonstrate that we cannot be assured of the precision of 1 (as was attempted by bTU), then we are dealing with absolute definitions.... which presents the conundrum of a false argument. You can't use the notion that ".999r = 1" to also disprove the notion that "1 = 1", much less the idea that "1 + 1 = 2".

this has been fun... thanks, bTU.

edit: Oh, and I'm no authority on the matter. Just a fan of math... and language... like ice-cream covered in hot fudge.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

I'd rather hang out with friends and collect gear, mounts, and achievements that don't require me to beat up on the weaker kid.

Skittles_t

join:2012-05-03

1 edit
Let x = y, then

xy+y=y
xyxy+y=yxy

xyxy+yxy=yxy
or

1+yxy=yxy
1=yxyyxy
1=0

Now we know that x = y or 1 = 1 is true and that 1 = 0 or 0 = 1 is true, we pose:

0 = 1
1 = 1
1 = 1

Adding these three equations we get:

0 + 1 + 1 = 1 + 1 + 1

or

1 + 1 = 3

of course this is a fallacy in and of itself, it's just bad math but it is used by some to credit the argument....

cymraeg
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join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
where did the -yx come from?


Immer
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said by cymraeg:

where did the -yx come from?

yes, something is indeed missing. I suspect, skittles_t will be found guilty of dividing by zero in this proof as well. I've seen similar attempts to prove 1 = 2. use more algebraic notation, pls.

edit: ah, I see the edit now (disengaging comment at the end). Maybe I can find a good (false) "proof" to share...


Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1
reply to Dillinja
Judging by the current quality of the beta I think a November release is more likely. Far too much work to be done, especially for bugs, balancing the classes and quality of life issues.


Immer
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reply to Skittles_t
1=2: A Proof using Beginning Algebra

The Fallacious Proof:

Step 1: Let a=b.
Step 2: Then a^2 = ab,
Step 3: a^2 + a^2 = a^2 + ab,
Step 4: 2 a^2 = a^2 + ab,
Step 5: 2 a^2 - 2 ab = a^2 + ab - 2 ab,
Step 6: and 2 a^2 - 2 ab = a^2 - ab.

Step 7: This can be written as 2 (a^2 - a b) = 1 (a^2 - a b),
Step 8: and cancelling the (a^2 - ab) from both sides gives 1=2.

good times.
--
Immergruen (resto/kitty) on Nathrezim Server (US)
Guild leader for Pride and Ego

I'd rather hang out with friends and collect gear, mounts, and achievements that don't require me to beat up on the weaker kid.

cymraeg
Thread Killer
Premium
join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
reply to Skittles_t
the third sentence is also incorrect

you would have x-y-y=yx-y the order of operations must be followed, if so then we have

x-2y=yx-y
x=yx+y
--
Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau!
I've lost the bleeps, I've lost the creeps and I've lost the sweeps.

Skittles_t

join:2012-05-03

1 recommendation

reply to Immer
said by Immer:

said by cymraeg:

where did the -yx come from?

yes, something is indeed missing. I suspect, skittles_t will be found guilty of dividing by zero in this proof as well. I've seen similar attempts to prove 1 = 2. use more algebraic notation, pls.

edit: ah, I see the edit now (disengaging comment at the end). Maybe I can find a good (false) "proof" to share...

Yes, this like other math equations to prove fallacies usually leave something missing or assume something from the start that is in error.
In ordinary real number math, division by zero has no meaning, as there is no number which, multiplied by 0, gives a (a does not = 0), and so division by zero is undefined.

As for the edit, yes it is a disengaging comment but one I should have included from the start as that was my attempt ( to show how invalid math can look real to prove a false argument).

cymraeg
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join:2011-06-07
Dodge, NE
ok its meant to be false, carry on then.


Goldheart

join:2002-06-09
Ballston Spa, NY
kudos:1
How about 1 person marries 1 person. Thus 2 becomes 1!

Heh heh heh!


stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS

1 recommendation

reply to bTU
said by bTU:

Actually since it can be mathematically proven that 1 does not = 1 it is hard to say 1+1=2.

With the bugs and problems hitting D3 right now MoP may not be until fall or even holiday time frame. Plus, doesn't SC2 have an xpac coming out sometime? Heart of the swarm or something like that. Not to mention Titan's development. I'm not sure what Blizz's priority list is, but MoP may not be at the top.

D3, SC2, Titan, and WoW do not share dev teams. Problems in D3 don't slow down any work on MoP or vice versa. They are 4 completely different games, with 4 completely different game engines.

Pulling people from one game to work on another would be like asking a Freightliner mechanic to work on your Chevy Volt. Sure, he might be able to get it fixed eventually, but he's got to learn how it works first, since it's something completely different from what he's used to working on.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.

Vinceruos_t

join:2012-05-04
reply to Dillinja
Cataclysm's release date was announced on Oct 4th for a Dec 7th release. WOTLK's release date was announced on Sep 15th for a Nov 13th release. Therefore you can assume that Blizzard will usually give a 2 moth notice on release date announcements. So if MoP is going to be out this summer then there will be an announcement within the next few weeks. If they do announce the release date in the coming weeks then we can still hope for an August release. But if we dont hear anything soon then its not going to be until the fall/winter that we get MoP.