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Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to marigolds

Re: Tornados & House Structure Question..

After Isabel in 2003 and Irene in 2011 I saw plenty of damaged homes and I saw no Green, yellow and Reg tags. Must be something in your area to keep your government workers busy.

I do see on tv sometimes after a fire they condemn the structure until it can be repaired.



marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2

said by Jack_in_VA:

After Isabel in 2003 and Irene in 2011 I saw plenty of damaged homes and I saw no Green, yellow and Reg tags. Must be something in your area to keep your government workers busy.

I do see on tv sometimes after a fire they condemn the structure until it can be repaired.

It's a FEMA mandate adopted post-Katrina.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

said by marigolds:

said by Jack_in_VA:

After Isabel in 2003 and Irene in 2011 I saw plenty of damaged homes and I saw no Green, yellow and Reg tags. Must be something in your area to keep your government workers busy.

I do see on tv sometimes after a fire they condemn the structure until it can be repaired.

It's a FEMA mandate adopted post-Katrina.

I didn't see any here after Irene which was post Katrina

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1

Sounds like you should complain to FEMA.



printscreen

join:2003-11-01
Juana Diaz, PR
Reviews:
·Choice Cable TV
·Coqui/PRTC
reply to marigolds

I travel regularly to Massachusetts and have seen this sign in abandoned buildings. But I have been told it is to tell firefighters not to enter the building during a fire.




A non

@151.190.0.x
reply to Jack_in_VA

After the building next to ours had a fire in which ten 100 pound propane tanks exploded, they "condemned" our building. We were allowed to enter and do stuff in the building, but we just couldn't live there (I guess that meant everything except sleeping was OK). They also turned off the electric and gas.

After the inspectors checked the electric and gas, the red sticker was removed, and we were allowed to live in the building again.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to robbin

said by robbin:

Sounds like you should complain to FEMA.

For what? We already have enough snitches and busybodies. I don't need to add to it.

Besides it's not my problem or any of my business.


marigolds
Gainfully employed, finally
Premium,MVM
join:2002-05-13
Saint Louis, MO
kudos:2
reply to Jack_in_VA

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by marigolds:

said by Jack_in_VA:

After Isabel in 2003 and Irene in 2011 I saw plenty of damaged homes and I saw no Green, yellow and Reg tags. Must be something in your area to keep your government workers busy.

I do see on tv sometimes after a fire they condemn the structure until it can be repaired.

It's a FEMA mandate adopted post-Katrina.

I didn't see any here after Irene which was post Katrina

Ah, Virginia was never approved for individual assistance, so they never did placards.
»www.fema.gov/news/event.fema?id=15594
The damage assessment lists no placarded buildings because there was no individual assistance.
»www.fema.gov/pdf/news/pda/4024.pdf
(p2 Minor Damage is green placard, Major Damage is yellow, Destroyed is red)

In contrast, New Jersey was approved for individual assistance, so they had 2,080 declared major damaged:
»www.fema.gov/pdf/news/pda/4021.pdf
Though they might have been allowed to skip individual assessment and declare everything Yellow, since it is odd to have all yellow at that magnitude.
For our tornado here last year, we had a wide range of structure damage:
»www.fema.gov/pdf/news/pda/1980.pdf

The AIA handbook explains the placards in detail
»www.aia.org/aiaucmp/groups/aia/d···7904.pdf
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iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to aurgathor

said by aurgathor:

said by iknow:

screws can't be used instead of nails because they aren't rated for shear strength, they are hardened, and can snap, where a nail will bend. they CAN be used in addition to the required amount of nails, though.

References?

The screws I normally use for framing (#9 x 3.5") has a somewhat higher diameter than the comparable nails, and if they're subjected to a force sufficient to snap them, then I think all bets are off and an equivalent nailed structure would fail earlier than that.

references are all over, look on google for "screws for framing" and you can ask your town board too, there are instances where people used screws in stead of nails, and the town inspectors made them use nails instead. here's some info, metal fatigue and building codes come into play. »www.contractortalk.com/f40/frami···s-90287/


John Galt
Forward, March
Premium
join:2004-09-30
Happy Camp
kudos:5
reply to Rob

Most people use these:

»www.strongtie.com/


MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to aurgathor

said by aurgathor:

said by iknow:

screws can't be used instead of nails because they aren't rated for shear strength, they are hardened, and can snap, where a nail will bend. they CAN be used in addition to the required amount of nails, though.

References?

The screws I normally use for framing (#9 x 3.5") has a somewhat higher diameter than the comparable nails, and if they're subjected to a force sufficient to snap them, then I think all bets are off and an equivalent nailed structure would fail earlier than that.

Take a look at the Simpson Strong-Tie catalog »www.strongtie.com/ and see what they say about shear strength of screws vs. nails.

MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4
reply to John Galt

said by John Galt:

For my projects I recommend dual mat #6 rebar on 12" centers with a 6" horz/vert offset per mat; walls, ceiling and floor, and a layer each of expanded metal on the facing sides of the rebar prior to the pour. Weld every other rod crossing and overlap.

Put that into a 10" thick 4,000 psi microfiber admixture concrete wall and you've got protection above ground.

Interior ballistic spall is a problem with concrete, so that needs to be addressed and controlled.

The room must be built at the same time as the original construction to tie the rebar into the whole slab.

The door should not open directly into the space but have a 90 degree turn, similar to what nuclear fallout shelters have. There should be two doors in this hallway. Both open INWARDS.

+100

This is actually pretty easy for a DIY home built using ICF - Insulated Concrete Forms.

Use SCF (self-consolidating concrete) like Lafarge Agilia and the pour is actually pretty easy via a pump truck - you can pour 10' tall walls in single pour. I did this for my cottage.

All framing members get tied to the concrete via cast-in-place saddles, hurricane straps, and other things like shear wall tie-downs, and hangers.

Laminated glass, hurricane shutters, and multi-point locking doors complete the equation.

ICF construction is within 10% of the cost of conventional framing in most cases, and they cost less to heat/cool since the amount of air leaking is minimal if door/window frames are properly air-sealed.

I still don't understand why homes in Tornado Alley aren't required to have a 10' x 10' basement room as a shelter. Farmers in the 1800's knew enough to get below ground - why not now?


Ken
Premium,MVM
join:2003-06-16
Markle, IN

said by MaynardKrebs:

I still don't understand why homes in Tornado Alley aren't required to have a 10' x 10' basement room as a shelter. Farmers in the 1800's knew enough to get below ground - why not now?

You want millions and millions of homes to be required to do something that costs thousands of dollars when the odds of getting hit by a tornado are very very small. The reason we don't have building codes to address tornado's is because the odds are the house will never be hit by one.
Expand your moderator at work


aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to iknow

Re: Tornados & House Structure Question..

said by iknow:

references are all over, look on google for "screws for framing"
[...]
»www.contractortalk.com/f40/frami···s-90287/

a) search terms with over 30 million hits are not references
b) a message board is not a reference either
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aurgathor

join:2002-12-01
Lynnwood, WA
kudos:1
reply to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs :

]Take a look at the Simpson Strong-Tie catalog »www.strongtie.com/ and see what they say about shear strength of screws vs. nails.

There is a 200+ pages catalog there -- please point out the exact section or page, or quote it here.
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MaynardKrebs
Premium
join:2009-06-17
kudos:4

said by aurgathor:

said by MaynardKrebs :

]Take a look at the Simpson Strong-Tie catalog »www.strongtie.com/ and see what they say about shear strength of screws vs. nails.

There is a 200+ pages catalog there -- please point out the exact section or page, or quote it here.

You have Mk1 eyeballs, don't you?


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to Rob

Study says Va., Fla. have best building codes



Rob
In Deo speramus.
Premium
join:2001-08-25
Kendall, FL
kudos:3

I'm not a builder, but my home is like a castle. Cinder block with reinforced steel and a roof that not even God himself could take off. Although because of the roof, we do not have any attic space since there's beams all over the place that secure the roof.

I feel extremely safe in my home during hurricanes.
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