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Smith6612
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join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
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reply to hobgoblin

Re: Youtube throttled by TWC?

said by hobgoblin:

And this is what it takes to cut the cord?
Outstanding.

Hob

Much of what I used to watch on TV isn't aired anymore, so it never gets turned on by me anymore. What I get on my computer is what I get (most Bills games, some Sabres games). Others here use TV service to watch re-runs. I've uploaded an attachment above/last page of what the norm is here when I'm not the only one awake. So, I enjoy the fresh content, it just takes a while to get unless I'm at work where 125MB/s (that's Megabytes) can be achieved, server permitting without grinding anything to a halt.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11

I am a little confused.
You said "What I get on my computer is what I get (most Bills games, some Sabres games)."
So you are happy watching an illegal feed of sporting events rather than subscribing to a TV service that provides it.
You are happy watching poor quality video feeds, rather than kicking back on the couch in front of Instant or DVR'd sporting events?
I cant see why anyone would embrace that scenario.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



Smith6612
Premium,MVM
join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
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said by hobgoblin:

I am a little confused.
You said "What I get on my computer is what I get (most Bills games, some Sabres games)."
So you are happy watching an illegal feed of sporting events rather than subscribing to a TV service that provides it.
You are happy watching poor quality video feeds, rather than kicking back on the couch in front of Instant or DVR'd sporting events?
I cant see why anyone would embrace that scenario.

Hob

I use a TV tuner in the PC so what comes in would be 1080i, so nothing illegal about it (no DBS support, though). Most Bills games air on there. One or two Sabres games, sometimes. I refuse to use pirated streams as I would rather pay to see the game in person at that point, which is something I do for both the Sabres and the Bills. Stop by Orchard Park for a few games, stop by First Niagara for a few games.


hobgoblin
Sortof Agoblin
Premium
join:2001-11-25
Orchard Park, NY
kudos:11

You are using OTA?
Very very few Sabres games, of course all Bills games other than the blackouts.

Hob
--
"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson



Smith6612
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join:2008-02-01
North Tonawanda, NY
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We have pay TV service here as I sort of stuck in as an implied mention above, but yes I use OTA myself. The stations I pick up are really the only ones I would even turn on with the current lineup of shows on network programming. My notion is, I'm paying for something I don't use (others in my home use it though which is why it's paid for), so why watch a local station, which should already be covered by advertisements and other funding I view watching OTA content anyways and then pay to receive the same transmission, only compressed further when OTA comes in strong enough with some provider advertising mixed in (eg: Time Warner, FiOS, Dish, DirecTV) on top of the station's normal ads?

If network programming had better things on it and the good shows weren't being cancelled by "ratings" I would probably sit down and enjoy a bit more TV time on the couch, and I wouldn't mind paying for it.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
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reply to Smith6612

Click for full size
Click for full size
said by Smith6612:

said by hobgoblin:

"For those with VERY slow connections such as I who enjoy watching 1080p/Original content, this means waiting a few hours before pressing play "

Ugh.
Good luck with that!

Hob

I know, it sucks. I'm lucky if a 3 hour video with a lot of activity in 1080p/Original from YouTube finishes overnight. If there's any sort of traffic coming into my connection I can expect it hitting a day to download which is pretty normal. Outgoing traffic doesn't bother the download though, have QoS set up.

I use a Greasemonkey script that disables the pausing on the buffering if the video is not playing, and one that also offers up download links. Have to do it that way to get decent looking videos.

proves what you say is not true.

A cool 3.5MB/s


Smith6612
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said by Anonymous_:

proves what you say is not true.

A cool 3.5MB/s

Your connection is also significantly faster than my home connection. My daytime connection will pull down that video in no time (under two minutes if even that).

I'm waiting for some things to fall in place before some better connectivity is installed here. I won't upgrade for the time being from what I've got until then.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
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yes but your claiming youtube is throttled by TWC which is not true.



Smith6612
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YouTube does throttle as I might have mentioned on the previous page. Pop to 360p/240p and see what happens. They don't throttle on the HD videos. Their Flash player the last I checked would stop buffering videos if you paused the video once the buffer got to a certain point which is what I mentioned on the last page and needs a script to bypass unless Google did away with that. Raw downloads from YouTube are not affected by this.

I also know Time Warner doesn't throttle YouTube. I don't use them but I have many people who I help on a day to day basis who uses them and they don't do lowly things such as that.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
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1 edit

If it's loading slow for them they need to upgrade the computer

Even a Core2 does not cut it anymore
They also load slow for me also on my Core2 system

Flash player HD video uses up a lot of CPU resources. As well as the Wireless NIC upto 40% CPU usage by it self each core.
I have 4GB of ram installed on this system

also the User needs to make sure he or she is not use HTML5.

I recommend at lest 6-8 core or higher HTML5 has no GPU offload



Smith6612
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Core2Duos still cut it if you have a halfway decent GPU and a tuned up machine. Unless it's a very low end Core2Duo or one meant for a netbook/ultrabook it shouldn't have a problem handling a couple hundred megabits flying in, provided some time has been spent to reduce the amount of interrupts to the CPU and other processing overhead that causes smaller amounts of traffic to peg the CPU. The YouTube player on busy 1080p videos can consume 2% of a Core2Quad or 8% of a Core2Duo or less if you set up Stagevideo on a halfway decent GPU.

My desktop is a custom built machine I pieced together myself. i7-920 overclocked to 4.2Ghz, 16GB RAM (no swap) and 3-way SLi and it's used for gaming, general use and distributed computing projects. 1080p videos are almost completely decoded on the GPUs, and Flash sits there consuming no more than 2% of the total CPU time during 1080p video playback. Original will consume a CPU core but the GPUs will handle that without a problem.

My work computer runs a 2.53Ghz Core2Duo, and this machine is attached to a Gigabit port. Downloading at Gigabit speeds will peg the CPU at 100% and grind the hard disks down but YouTube will still play at 30FPS since the GPU is halfway decent and I've spent some time optimizing the machine. I may rebuild this machine to i5/i7, depending on what is laying around but it handles it just fine.

I'm not sure why your Core2Duo machine would load videos slowly though. Seems like something it should handle without a problem.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
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Also if the user is using HTML5 video player he/she will need a 8core+ system to run 1080p smoothly.

My laptop is 2.7GHz Core2 6MB L2 overclocked from 2.5GHz
4GB ram
windows 7HP
only using a IGP but it's only 1200 x 800 14" screen

In general Wifi cards use more resources then regular NIc's



Smith6612
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said by Anonymous_:

Also if the user is using HTML5 video player he/she will need a 8core+ system to run 1080p smoothly.

My laptop is 2.7GHz Core2 6MB L2 overclocked from 2.5GHz
4GB ram
windows 7HP
only using a IGP but it's only 1200 x 800 14" screen

HTML5 is where I can see the exception here. Yeah, video acceleration for the players need some work still. 1080p should work fine on a 3-core CPU though, assuming one CPU is busy with handling network overhead and the OS, and the other two cores are taking care of decoding the video. 8 cores sounds like what would happen with the Original format.

Which IGP does your laptop have? If it's an Intel 4500MHD (GM45/x4500) or newer, an ATi Mobility Radeon HD 4 series or higher, or a GeForce 8M series or higher, those cards can do H.264 decoding and can almost completely eliminate the CPU usage from Flash. Make sure Hardware Acceleration is on within Flash, you have the latest GPU drivers from the manufacturer of the GPU (not the PC maker unless it's dual/switchable graphics) and enable Stagevideo if YouTube's player won't turn it on using a userscript. Won't help too much with the HTML5 players though, those still need CPU.

The older GPUs such as x3100s from Intel, NVIDIA GeForce 7 series and ATi Radeon HD 3 series and older, while they can do some H.264 acceleration and other methods of accelerating HD video, they aren't quite as effective.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
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this laptop 965Express

My other two laptop has
Geforce 9600M-GS Vostro 1720 1920x1200
and
Geforce 8600M-GT Vostro 1500 1200 x 800



Smith6612
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Ah, ok. The 965 won't get you too far with acceleration of video. Pretty basic card. The GeForce cards however should be able to take the heavy workloads off of the CPU, no problem.

With YouTube try &wmode=direct in the URL which turns on Stagevideo if you've got updated Flash and drivers. The YousableTubeFix Greasemoneky script, which is one I use can also force it on if it can even be done.



Anonymous_
Anonymous
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965 Express is x3100



Smith6612
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1 edit

Click for full size
Ah, ok. So you're speaking of the chipset and not the GPU itself.

I've attached a screenshot of what StageVideo does. This video's in 720p running on one of our desktop which runs Windows Vista and an Intel Q6600 as the CPU with a Radeon HD 5770 as the GPU. There are other YouTube videos loaded in the background, but there's my CPU usage during playback.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
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said by Smith6612:

Ah, ok. So you're speaking of the chipset and not the GPU itself.

I've attached a screenshot of what StageVideo does. This video's in 720p running on one of our desktop which runs Windows Vista and an Intel Q6600 as the CPU with a Radeon HD 5770 as the GPU. There are other YouTube videos loaded in the background, but there's my CPU usage during playback.

Intel 82GM965 Graphics and Memory Controller

according the intel's documents it's x3100 IGP controller.


Anonymous_
Anonymous
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1 edit
reply to Smith6612

75% to 80% CPU usage when Forced full CPU speed & overclocked to 2.7GHz T9300 and with the &wmode=direct tag used

70% to 85% tag not used when load and playing

the CPU usage did drop to 65% when it was done downloading

usage on the 9600m GS was 40% no tag (2.53 P8700)

Something I noticed is SOME computers have issues with buffering. no matter what the specs of the computer



Smith6612
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1 edit
reply to Anonymous_

Here's a screenshot from my day time connection pulling down the same video from YouTube. To wrap up Hob's question as to why I put up with 20KB/s often, this is why. Once decent connectivity shows up I'll be grabbing such speeds at home and making good use of it.

So there's my proof that YouTube doesn't throttle on the HD videos

But that should wrap up my (unintentional) thread jacking since I'm not being of too much help.

isamu99

join:2004-03-10
Los Angeles, CA
reply to isamu99

Yeah it could be on youtube's end. I'm gonna download Greasemonkey for firefox and grab one of those scripts and see what happens. Someone mentioned raising your DNS speed or something? How exactly do I do this?

Also what are some other good scripts?


isamu99

join:2004-03-10
Los Angeles, CA
reply to isamu99

OK I just changed my network settings Configuration to use Google Public DNS, as well as installed The *YousableTubeFix* Greasemonkey script for firefox, and now HD Youtube vids are buffering the way they're supposed to....FOR NOW. Let's see if this really fixed the issue. I'll keep you posted.



rasmasyean

@rcn.com

P.S. Oh also, it's weird. Sometimes YouTube has that "max buffer ahead" thing going for it. While other times it just buffers all the way to the end. I haven't figured out what determines this behavior.



rasmasyean

@rcn.com
reply to isamu99

Here’s my experience with YouTube...

Youtube seems to now only buffer a certain number of seconds ahead of playback.

When I switched from TWC 10 to 15 (turbo), it did nothing. YouTube seems to work best at certain (low traffic?) times of the day. Other times, I couldn’t buffer 1080p/780p/(even lower res) fast enough.

When I switched from TWC to RCN 50, YouTube 1080p always buffers faster than playback…ALWAYS.

In another thread some ppl have claimed that it depends a lot on “routing” and/or “caching”. I’m guessing this means that depending on the route your stream comes from, it might hit a YouTube cache where they might temporarily store popular videos to conserve bandwidth. I don’t really know what defines “popular” but perhaps all the vids I’ve tried with RCN so far are all “popular”? :P

I did notice that TWC speedtest pretty much drops down to 1.5-3 practically every day for several hours (regardless of turbo 15). So…I’m not a Flash networking expert and this is only a guess…but maybe TWC servers for some reason increase latency within their system due to load or something, and when this happens YouTube “video segments” are streamed with a lot of lag in between. So it’s equivalent of for example…you load the video, you close the page, you load the video again, and skip to the part where you left off, you close the page…rinse and repeat. So therefore, if you don’t do this fast enough, you will not be able to load the next segments of the stream faster than playback. Make sense?


isamu99

join:2004-03-10
Los Angeles, CA

Good post ras.....I noticed during prime time hours last night('round 8pm PST) the vids didn't buffer all the way while paused. Just like you said, sometimes it has the "max buffer ahead" thing going for it. While other times it just buffers all the way to the end. That's exact what's going on and no one seems to be able to explain why. Switching to that new greasemonkey script and/or changing to google DNS seems to have minor improvement to the buffer performance, but it still seems to happen at random.



socalblitz
restore the constitution
Premium
join:2008-07-31
Fullerton, CA
reply to rasmasyean

said by rasmasyean :

Here’s my experience with YouTube...

Youtube seems to now only buffer a certain number of seconds ahead of playback.

YouTube changed the way they stream video a couple of months ago.

ChilledCat

join:2012-08-02
reply to isamu99

Probably why the "serious" video folks, are all
pretty much using Vimeo

Typical HD playback on Vimeo can run full-screen
at a HD quality. Luv It !!!!


isamu99

join:2004-03-10
Los Angeles, CA
reply to socalblitz

Hmmm....why didn't you tell us this EARLIER???

Do you have a link that you can provide to back up this claim?



rasmasyean

@rcn.com
reply to isamu99

Well for the "max buffer ahead", either the Flash plugin has to stop downloading video or Adobe servers have to stop sending video. Whichever way it happens, Youtube prolly has some sort of load monitor to automate the decision to "stop sending everything because we need bandwidth elsewhere now".

Whatever causes buffer lag, so far I have yet to run into (1080p) buffer lag switching to RCN 50. NEVER. Even through a big playlist. But I don't think the "50 part" has anything to do with it, because it doesn't take that much bandwidth to do 1080p. And when RR measured like 20, Youtube still suffered buffer lag. That's not to say one day I'll get buffer lag for whatever reason while RR wil not. But as of recent times, I think the problem has to do with RR. I mean, I don't think the routing is THAT much different and the videos I watched prolly still come from the same general geography.



excelx

join:2004-07-06
Los Angeles, CA
reply to isamu99

I have TWC ( 10mbps d/l - 1mbps up ) youtube videos load very slow, on my pc/ipad/asus tf201. ad blocker addons isn't the problem.

I also have AT&T DSL ( 3mbps d/l - 512kbps up ) youtube videos load fast! lets me play 720-1080p without a problem at all times.

I think twc internet is the problem, not a big deal because i don't have any issues downloading torrents/surfing net/online gaming.

weird...