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grobinette
Southeast of disorder
Premium,Mod
join:2001-01-27
Springfield, VA
kudos:2
reply to jchambers28

Re: replace a smart meter with a non smart meter.

Okay guys, we were discussing smart meters and ran smack into politics. Which way is it going to go from here, back on topic or locked? Your choice

Spensergig
Past my Prime
Premium,MVM
join:2000-03-26
Bradenton, FL

2 recommendations

I vote locked. And every following thread that degrades like this should also be locked, without waiting through days and days of this bickering crap.


fifty nine

join:2002-09-25
Sussex, NJ
kudos:2

2 recommendations

said by Spensergig:

I vote locked. And every following thread that degrades like this should also be locked, without waiting through days and days of this bickering crap.

And, there is really one thing common to all of these threads...


Koil
Premium
join:2002-09-10
Irmo, SC
kudos:2
reply to Spensergig
said by Spensergig:

I vote locked. And every following thread that degrades like this should also be locked, without waiting through days and days of this bickering crap.

Not that I really care one way or the other if it gets locked, but...you know you don't have to read the thread, right? You can unfollow it pretty easily, and it'd never effect your life one iota...never really understood why ppl cared to comment in a thread they don't like.
--
I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something. And I will not let what I cannot do interfere with what I can do.- Edward Everett Hale

My Blog - Raising Connor


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by Koil:

said by Spensergig:

I vote locked. And every following thread that degrades like this should also be locked, without waiting through days and days of this bickering crap.

Not that I really care one way or the other if it gets locked, but...you know you don't have to read the thread, right? You can unfollow it pretty easily, and it'd never effect your life one iota...never really understood why ppl cared to comment in a thread they don't like.

I agree Koil. Perhaps they have a need to influence and control what others are doing or saying. They don't have to read the posts yet they do and then call for it to be locked (censored. I suggest that Spensergig "the thread killer" just put this thread on ignore. Problem solved.

Now back to topic of Smart Meters.

Many of us already have "Electronic" meters instead of the old analog meters which negates the argument on accuracy and they have a "RF Transmitter" that allows remote reading from a vehicle passing by once a month. As near as I can determine the only difference in the so-called "Smart Meters" is a RF transmitter that can communicate with a utility network connected to a central office that collects real time data 24/7 and on some meters a switch that can be operated on/off by the central office.

This ability to have the monthly usage for billing purposes eliminating the meter readers could be a money saver even though the ROI on the meter change-outs will take years, and the ability to know when there's a power failure even though every one of the sites I checked said to phone anyway to report an outage. That negates that so-called benefit.

All the touted benefits don't match reality unless it's just a back-door method to achieve something else.

Personally I would have no problem with the POCO having the ability to read my monthly usage for billing purposes and know when there's a power outage at my location but that's all they need to be allowed to do. They already have the means and equipment to monitor their demand 24/7 every second of the day.


dosdoxies
Premium
join:2004-12-15
Wallingford, PA

1 recommendation

reply to fifty nine
said by fifty nine:

said by Spensergig:

I vote locked. And every following thread that degrades like this should also be locked, without waiting through days and days of this bickering crap.

And, there is really one thing common to all of these threads...


iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to grobinette
said by grobinette:

Okay guys, we were discussing smart meters and ran smack into politics. Which way is it going to go from here, back on topic or locked? Your choice

politics got into this because the political agenda is pushing smart meters. if you read the first politcal comment on smart meters you'll see that. but i agree that first political post strayed from the OPs question, which was, can you legally replace a smart meter with something else your self, which you can't!. unless your utility allows it.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
said by iknow:

said by grobinette:

Okay guys, we were discussing smart meters and ran smack into politics. Which way is it going to go from here, back on topic or locked? Your choice

politics got into this because the political agenda is pushing smart meters. if you read the first politcal comment on smart meters you'll see that. but i agree that first political post strayed from the OPs question, which was, can you legally replace a smart meter with something else your self, which you can't!. unless your utility allows it.

Correct. The utility and whoever regulates them would have to put a tariff into place to allow for the utility to recoup their additional cost for meter readers.

I just thought about another thing: What if the ORIGINAL meters were all remotely read, from a single point, and the change was to have utility people walk right up to your house, whenever THEY chose, to physically read your meter? Oh, the horror! Keep your blinds tightly drawn, people, because those spies would be looking in every window, checking on who-knows-what. We'd have to fight this and stick with the remote-read meters!


SparkChaser
Premium
join:2000-06-06
Downingtown, PA
kudos:4
Reviews:
·Verizon FiOS
reply to jchambers28
It got political in the first page, just as it always does.

I remember my first trip to Ireland, 1970ish. I was amazed that to get electricity you had do put a Shilling in the box and you had power for how ever long that lasted. Monthly, you took the contents of the box to the ESB (Electric Supply Board).

I think some would like to de-evolve back in to a similar practice.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
In the late 1950's the REA finally came through and installed lines to my Aunt and Uncles home in foothills of rural Virginia. Each month they received a card in the mail with an image of the electric meter dials. They would draw in the pointer position for each number and send it in. Once a year a meter reader would actually read the meter and REA would make adjustments as needed. Didn't need or have a smart meter to limit having a person from the POCO read the meters every month.



Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

said by iknow:

said by grobinette:

Okay guys, we were discussing smart meters and ran smack into politics. Which way is it going to go from here, back on topic or locked? Your choice

politics got into this because the political agenda is pushing smart meters. if you read the first politcal comment on smart meters you'll see that. but i agree that first political post strayed from the OPs question, which was, can you legally replace a smart meter with something else your self, which you can't!. unless your utility allows it.

Correct. The utility and whoever regulates them would have to put a tariff into place to allow for the utility to recoup their additional cost for meter readers.

I just thought about another thing: What if the ORIGINAL meters were all remotely read, from a single point, and the change was to have utility people walk right up to your house, whenever THEY chose, to physically read your meter? Oh, the horror! Keep your blinds tightly drawn, people, because those spies would be looking in every window, checking on who-knows-what. We'd have to fight this and stick with the remote-read meters!

The non-smart "original" electronic meters we have now are read remotely from the street as the data is transmitted wirelessly. No need for a peeping tom meter reader to enter the property.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
I know, but I think for most of us (the vast majority, in fact) previously had the dial type meters that had to be directly eyeballed to be read. Meter reader ON the property, up close and personal. What a $hitstorm that would cause if it suddenly became required from formerly not.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by garys_2k:

I know, but I think for most of us (the vast majority, in fact) previously had the dial type meters that had to be directly eyeballed to be read. Meter reader ON the property, up close and personal. What a $hitstorm that would cause if it suddenly became required from formerly not.

How many years did we have electric, gas and water meter readers come on to the property sometimes in the home to read the meters with absolutely no problems? Even today in many parts of the country this is still the norm. Remotely read meters from the road are fairly recent. Why do you think it would be a problem now?

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
reply to SparkChaser
said by SparkChaser:

It got political in the first page, just as it always does.

I remember my first trip to Ireland, 1970ish. I was amazed that to get electricity you had do put a Shilling in the box and you had power for how ever long that lasted. Monthly, you took the contents of the box to the ESB (Electric Supply Board).

I think some would like to de-evolve back in to a similar practice.

One of the links provided in this thread mentions the potential for prepay Smart Meters and has a graphic showing a card being swiped through a remote card reader. So, progress!

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to Jack_in_VA
It has always been a problem. Either you have to put your dog in on the correct day or they leave your gate open and the dog gets out. You posted earlier about your grandparents having to read their own meter in the 50's. I had to read my own meter after the year 2000. I don't want to go back to that as it is really a pain. I don't believe there is any serious security issue for the average user but if there is, then perhaps this thread is more appropriate in the security forum?

scross

join:2002-09-13
Cordova, TN
said by robbin:

I had to read my own meter after the year 2000.

As someone who spent considerable time (and made considerable money) as a Y2K bug killer, I'd like to know the technical story behind this (assuming that it was a Y2K-related problem, that is). I wouldn't be too surprised by it, though, because we still had some "Y2K-ready" certified vendors still fixing their Y2K bugs at least as late as 2002.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to robbin
said by robbin:

I don't believe there is any serious security issue for the average user but if there is, then perhaps this thread is more appropriate in the security forum?

Judging from the comments of some perhaps you're right.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
reply to scross
My point was that reading your own meter was not just a 50's thing. Analog meters in rural areas are still in use. In our case, they upgraded about 2003. I don't want to have to read my meter and I don't like an unknown meter reader coming onto my property to do so.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
said by robbin:

My point was that reading your own meter was not just a 50's thing. Analog meters in rural areas are still in use. In our case, they upgraded about 2003. I don't want to have to read my meter and I don't like an unknown meter reader coming onto my property to do so.

You are kidding....right? I hope I never get that paranoid. My meter reader rides by in a truck but I would not have any problem at all if he/she had to visually read it. I could also do it myself since it's only once a month and takes less than 5 minutes. That was a good sound method of reducing labor costs.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
The time they let my dog out, I spent most of two full days searching before someone caught him and called the animal shelter. I'm not the paranoid one. I didn't start this thread. I just don't have the time to pretend I'm living in the 50's (or 70's or 90's). When technology can make improvements or lessen costs, I'm for them. I really don't understand this thread. Is this a security concern or a discussion on government and it's role in governing the behavior of the local Electric company /Co-op? Or perhaps, just the kind of discussion people would have sitting around in the pub.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by garys_2k:

I know, but I think for most of us (the vast majority, in fact) previously had the dial type meters that had to be directly eyeballed to be read. Meter reader ON the property, up close and personal. What a $hitstorm that would cause if it suddenly became required from formerly not.

How many years did we have electric, gas and water meter readers come on to the property sometimes in the home to read the meters with absolutely no problems? Even today in many parts of the country this is still the norm. Remotely read meters from the road are fairly recent. Why do you think it would be a problem now?

Oh, I know, but my point is that if we were used to remotely read meters, where nobody ever has to come onto our property, then imagine if the upgrade had been to personally read meters.

The hullabaloo would be all about the utility "spies" coming onto our property. No more privacy! People would be screaming to keep their remotely read meters, websites would be devoted to fighting those "invasive" meter readers -- some would likely suggest greeting these people with threats.

My point is that, if the shoe was on the other foot and we had to evolve from remote to personally read meters then some people would be having a fit. Likely the same people who now cringe at the thought of nobody routinely coming onto their property.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25
reply to Jack_in_VA
said by Jack_in_VA:

said by garys_2k:

I know, but I think for most of us (the vast majority, in fact) previously had the dial type meters that had to be directly eyeballed to be read. Meter reader ON the property, up close and personal. What a $hitstorm that would cause if it suddenly became required from formerly not.

How many years did we have electric, gas and water meter readers come on to the property sometimes in the home to read the meters with absolutely no problems? Even today in many parts of the country this is still the norm. Remotely read meters from the road are fairly recent. Why do you think it would be a problem now?

I can answer that one, times have changed, and not only do you have people impersonating meter readers to commit crimes in the home, there are some valid meter readers employed by the utilities committing crimes under the guise of their job. it's not like it used to be many years ago. it's safer not having the reader on your property these days, for some people. those with large protective dogs excluded.
Expand your moderator at work


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
reply to robbin

Re: replace a smart meter with a non smart meter.

You do realize Robbin that reading the posts is entirely your choice don't you? If you don't like what's being posted then you can also choose not to read them. The choice is entirely up to you.

robbin
Premium,MVM
join:2000-09-21
Leander, TX
kudos:1
I can also choose to respond as this is a public forum for that exact purpose.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Yes and we can choose to reply to your posts as I have.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom
reply to iknow
said by iknow:

I can answer that one, times have changed, and not only do you have people impersonating meter readers to commit crimes in the home, there are some valid meter readers employed by the utilities committing crimes under the guise of their job. it's not like it used to be many years ago. it's safer not having the reader on your property these days, for some people. those with large protective dogs excluded.

In most cases as mine the meter is read remotely by a truck riding by but I am not in the least afraid to let a meter reader access the meter on my property. I don't have a large protective (vicious) dog either.

I guess I'm just too trusting and have too much faith in my fellow man. It's served me well for almost 69 years now so I don't see any need to change.

Perhaps it's the part of the country I live in that doesn't instill a sense of extreme danger since it's very rural and most everybody knows everyone else.

garys_2k
Premium
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI
Reviews:
·Callcentric

1 recommendation

And yet for some, that "faith in [their] fellow man" all falls apart when meters can be read from a central location. Then it becomes a tool for big gubmint and money grubbing capitalists.

As for the meter I have, I'm anxious for our utility to roll out the self monitoring via the Internet. Then I can assess for myself the advisability of TOU billing (that's been around for a LONG time, way before the digital meters). If the rate looks better for me I'll jump on it.

iknow
Premium
join:2012-03-25

1 recommendation

reply to robbin
said by robbin:

The time they let my dog out, I spent most of two full days searching before someone caught him and called the animal shelter. I'm not the paranoid one. I didn't start this thread. I just don't have the time to pretend I'm living in the 50's (or 70's or 90's). When technology can make improvements or lessen costs, I'm for them. I really don't understand this thread. Is this a security concern or a discussion on government and it's role in governing the behavior of the local Electric company /Co-op? Or perhaps, just the kind of discussion people would have sitting around in the pub.

originally it was about the legality of replacing your smart meter by yourself, then, related details were brought up, which may seem to be confusing, but are related in general to the smart meter issue, as security, government, politics, and general thoughts on the subject are relevant, but not questioned in the OPs topic.


Jack_in_VA
Premium
join:2007-11-26
North, VA
kudos:1
Reviews:
·Millenicom

1 edit
reply to garys_2k
said by garys_2k:

And yet for some, that "faith in [their] fellow man" all falls apart when meters can be read from a central location. Then it becomes a tool for big gubmint and money grubbing capitalists.

As for the meter I have, I'm anxious for our utility to roll out the self monitoring via the Internet. Then I can assess for myself the advisability of TOU billing (that's been around for a LONG time, way before the digital meters). If the rate looks better for me I'll jump on it.

I have no problem with my meter being read remotely gathering my "Monthly" usage for billing purposes. No conspiracy there. The ability to monitor if power is off is an added but not critical benefit as most POCO's still request a phone call for outages.

Using Google and Bing there apparently are several areas notably in California that are backing off installing Smart Meters and in some cases removing them. The issue is far from settled in spite of what the POCO's want.