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Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA

[Lore] Lore: Race/Class combos

So I read "Rise of the Horde". Orcs are portrayed as Warriors, Shaman, and finally Warlocks. What the hell are the Draenei supposed to be? I'm guessing Mages and Priests with some Warrior type stuff thrown in there.


bTU

join:2009-04-22
Aurora, CO

1 recommendation

They were shown how to be paladins by the naaru. They learned shamanism and how to be hunters from the uncorrupted orcs in outland.

pandora
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reply to Suniojii
Of all the Alliance races, Draenei just don't seem to really fit. Nobody, absolutely nobody goes to Exodar (except maybe if required for a seasonal quest, of which there are few). The first thing I did when rolling a Draenei for a friend was to get a portal to stormwind, hop on a rocket and go the the human starting area.

With talbards, its easier to gain rep in dungeons than doing quests for a city or faction.

I have one Draenei that is played all the time, mostly as a shaman healer, but also as a shaman dps when questing. He probably would be better off as a dwarf. In many places, a Draenei has issues fitting through doors, or getting under things (like the Feeling Crabby? daily cooking quest in Stormwind, my Draenei will easily get stuck under a dock, no other toon has this issue). Doors in the mage district require my Draenei to be more or less centered, or to enter morphed as a wolf. ... sigh.
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Immer
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reply to bTU
and then blizz has morphed the role of the naaru and "the light" to have some implied connection to Elune... so there is the priestly connection for draenei.


Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA
reply to Suniojii
Hmm, I guess I can see how they were paladins etc... What would be the other typical race/class combos as far as lore goes?
Tauren I am guessing druids and shamans. Blood elves would be Mages. I'm not sure what forsaken would be.


stonhinge
Premium
join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
With the Forsaken, I believe from the starting area info (granted, the last time I rolled one was pre-Cataclysm) you are reborn, but still have some memory of the skills you had when you were human. So any human class - except paladins - is possible. Paladins lost their connection to the Light when they became undead, priests are allowed because of the shadow side to priests. I'd have to say something similar would go for Worgen, due to having been human at one point.
--
When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA

2 edits
reply to Suniojii
kinda wish Blizz would have been more strict with the Lore race/class combos something like

humans: warrior,pally,mage,rogue,hunter,priest,lock,dk
nelf: druid,priest,hunter,mage,rogue
dwarf: warrior,hunter,priest,dk
gnome: mage,lock,rogue,warrior
dranei: priest,pally,warrior
worgen: warrior,mage,rogue,hunter, priest, lock

orc: shaman,warrior,hunter,lock
troll: priest,hunter,warrior,shaman
tauren: shaman,druid,hunter,warrior
undead: warrior,mage,rogue,hunter,priest,lock,dk
belf: mage,hunter,warrior,rogue,dk
goblin: rogue,warrior,lock

bored@work-this list is totally unbalanced from race/class perspective
--
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu


Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA
I dont see how an Undead should be a Hunter from the lore perspective. Do they need to eat the food they hunt?

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
Sylvanas was the ranger general of silvermoon before death and has a group of Dark Rangers, former High Elf Farstriders. Also there is an undead Human hunter named Nathanos Marris who was the first human ranger accepted by the high elves.

i read about it somewhere. pretty interesting stuff.
--
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu


Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA
said by Josof:

Sylvanas was the ranger general of silvermoon before death and has a group of Dark Rangers, former High Elf Farstriders. Also there is an undead Human hunter named Nathanos Marris who was the first human ranger accepted by the high elves.

i read about it somewhere. pretty interesting stuff.

Ahh, I remember Nathanos's hut over in either east or west Plaguelands. He had some plagued ghost dog pets i recall.

pandora
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reply to Josof
said by Josof:

humans: warrior,pally,mage,rogue,hunter,priest,lock,dk
nelf: druid,priest,hunter,mage,rogue
dwarf: warrior,hunter,priest,dk
gnome: mage,lock,rogue,warrior
dranei: priest,pally,warrior
worgen: warrior,mage,rogue,hunter, priest, lock

Maybe it's my aging eyes, but I see no shaman listed for the Alliance in your list. I see you list shaman for Orc, Troll, and Tauren. Are you saying no Alliance toon should have a shaman? That the class should be horde only? From you list, I think it would be the only faction specific class.

Personally I'd prefer a gnome, human, and Draenei shaman for the Alliance. imo all classes should be open to humans. Not certain which race would be best to be any class in the horde, but a race on each faction capable of being any class would seem reasonable to me.
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Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
Aye, its just personal preference but i was just goin back to when Paladin was alliance only and Shaman was horde only. Like i said totally unbalanced race/class combos but i liked when ally/horde had an exclusive class.
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pandora
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1 edit
said by Josof:

Aye, its just personal preference but i was just goin back to when Paladin was alliance only and Shaman was horde only. Like i said totally unbalanced race/class combos but i liked when ally/horde had an exclusive class.

Ahh I didn't notice you had left pally out of the horde .. hmm ... it could work. Though horde would be giving up a tanking / dps / healing class to get a healing / dps class. One less tanking class for the horde.

Personally, I wish Blizzard would work harder to distinguish the classes within faction, and maybe even by race. Such that horde would have unholy trees or specs, where alliance had holy.

It seems there could be a way to balance classes but have each faction / race have slightly different talent trees and glyphs. Though that seems to be the opposite of the direction Blizzard is headed toward.

At least until its sold, and some new company revamps the schemes.

My greatest wish would be that the focus on raids, dungeons and battle grounds be diminished in favor of crafting, gathering and guild participation.

It seems reasonable that each guild member say in a questing party, should get an extra % per quest or kill for both user xp, rep and guild xp and rep. Don't know if it should be an extra 10% per member, or 25, but it'd be nice to see a way to encourage guilds to take people out and finish quest areas. It would be nice to see crafters get guild xp, and rep for making stuff, and to be able to make decent stuff without having to raid.

For example, I have no idea why a blacksmith can't repair. At least stuff he can make. I can make you new plate, but somehow can't fix your existing plate?? Same for leatherworkers and mail / leather / cloaks, or tailors and cloth items. Shouldn't each profession be able to repair the item types they in theory could make or at least understand?

It seems silly that a blacksmith repairs cloth and leather anyway. Most NPC blacksmiths don't have a fire nearby. Why would an NPC blacksmith be able to repair cloth attire? Talk about bad lore ...
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Vinceruos_t

join:2012-05-04
So you want it to be like SWTOR, where it is basically the same class and same skills just different names and spell effects based on Horde and Alliance?


Immer
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said by Vinceruos_t:

So you want it to be like SWTOR, where it is basically the same class and same skills just different names and spell effects based on Horde and Alliance?

No need to compare to SWTOR. In any world where you have 2 opposing forces, each side will develop counters to the other side's strengths.

pandora
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reply to Vinceruos_t
said by Vinceruos_t:

So you want it to be like SWTOR, where it is basically the same class and same skills just different names and spell effects based on Horde and Alliance?

Not exactly, I'd rather have more emphasis on non-combat than Blizzard currently offers. As to spells and skills for factions .. I'd think there could be a lot more creativity in the spell / skill trees for all classes. Race should matter not only for racial, but should imo affect the talent tree.

Blizzard seems to have worked, and seems to be working to simplify talents and glyphs. IMO that is the wrong direction. I'd rather customize 100 or 200 talent points, and have race matter.

I'd also like to see talents work not only for combat, but for professions.

What distinguishes WoW from dungeon crawlers like Diablo is the complexity of the economy, and depth of lore. My belief is Blizzard doesn't go far enough in developing it's economy.

Just as an example, I'd like to spend some talent points reducing the cost of auctioning. Some items cost a lot to auction, if I could get a 25, 50 and 75% reduction in auction cost, on a crafting toon, it could very much be worth it to help respond to being undercut. It would make auctioning some stuff much easier.

Talent points that could make farming herbs, skins or mining faster or instant would be nice. Today, Worgen get instant skins, Tauren get instant herb picking. It'd be nice to see that racial kept, but for other races to purchase faster skinning or herbing, with some races paying more than others, if that could be put into lore somehow. Perhaps preventing a race or two (say gnomes) from getting faster herbing, but making faster mining require less talent points. In other words, evaluate the lore, look at the classes, and skills, then see what makes sense. What would a dwarf, Tauren, gnome or human be likely to learn easier or harder, what would come naturally, what would take work. Fit a talent tree to the race and class.

Ideally let experience, quest lines, dungeons, raids, general combat, crafting and use of the auction house also affect costs for skills or the capability of skills (a more experienced warrior dwarf may have a better whirlwind (longer, more damage, or some buff coming out) than a less experienced (younger?) dwarf).

Blizzard gives lip service to lore, but for the most part doesn't seek to integrate it to the characters we play.
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Immer
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I like it. I think that view is one that only fellow altoholics would appreciate. The argument could be made that for the person who only works on one toon, it could make it feel like there were things not available to him.

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to pandora
agreed, it would be nice if wow were a bit deeper. i think it would be totally possible to make wow a deeper game and at the same time avoiding the grindier aspects.

but you know how it goes, its a business so as the goblins say "Time is money friends"
--
"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu


Suniojii

join:2009-10-31
Lakeside, CA
reply to Suniojii
From a faction balance perspective, yea both sides need equal classes. But, if you are factoring in the lore of the game...some stuff just doesnt make sense. IE: Paladin Tauren


Immer
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said by Suniojii:

From a faction balance perspective, yea both sides need equal classes. But, if you are factoring in the lore of the game...some stuff just doesnt make sense. IE: Paladin Tauren

agreed. utterly ridiculous

Skittles_t

join:2012-05-03
said by Immer:

agreed. utterly ridiculous

Ugghhh


Immer
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I...
couldn't...
help...
myself.

people need to post more, lol.


Caelharrad

join:2012-04-13
Fenton, MO
reply to Josof
said by Josof:

dwarf: warrior,hunter,priest,dk
gnome: mage,lock,rogue,warrior
troll: priest,hunter,warrior,shaman

So, three of my four toons (dwarf shaman, gnome DK, and troll druid) wouldn't be allowed per your understanding of lore - only my dwarven hunter is kosher. Bah humbug!!!
...
I think more combinations should be allowed, not fewer. Maybe it should be set up where each race has "preferred" classes, but others are possible? If you choose a currently "not allowed" race/class combo, the character creation screen has a warning box pop up: "This race is not ideally suited to play this class. You will require 20% more XP to progress in level, and class skills will cost 20% more gold. Continue? Y/N" That way, if someone ABSOLUTELY INSISTS on creating "Snarfblat, the Orcish Paladin" they can, but they will incur a penalty for doing so. As mentioned by others, we already have race/class combos in the game that make absolutely zero sense.

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
said by Caelharrad:

said by Josof:

dwarf: warrior,hunter,priest,dk
gnome: mage,lock,rogue,warrior
troll: priest,hunter,warrior,shaman

So, three of my four toons (dwarf shaman, gnome DK, and troll druid) wouldn't be allowed per your understanding of lore - only my dwarven hunter is kosher. Bah humbug!!!
...

aye, my list is pretty f'd up. i was just bored at work.

currently my main toons are a human warrior and a night elf huntress...boring i know
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"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu


Adalicia
Om Nom Nom

join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE
kudos:13

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reply to Immer
said by Immer:

...people need to post more, lol.

Oh hai thur.
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Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
Lore based race/class combos...what would be your choices Ada?


Adalicia
Om Nom Nom

join:2009-10-13
Lincoln, NE
kudos:13
Orc : Warrior, Shaman, Warlock, Rogue, Hunter, Death Knight
Forsaken: Warrior, Mage, Warlock, Priest, Hunter, Rogue, Death Knight
Tauren: Warrior, Druid, Shaman, Hunter, Death Knight
Troll: Warrior, Druid, Warlock, Priest, Hunter, Shaman, Rogue, Death Knight
Blood Elves: Warrior, Paladin, Hunter, Rogue, Mage, Priest, Death Knight
Goblin: Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Priest, Mage, Warlock, Death Knight

Off the top of my head at work. Death Knight needs to encompass all races. I'm tempted to allow Forsaken Paladin but ultimately you need a massive retcon in lore or a lawful good character which is uncharacteristic of the average Forsaken.
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pandora
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1 edit
said by Adalicia:

Off the top of my head at work. Death Knight needs to encompass all races.

On that I totally agree. It is likely the Lich King wouldn't care about race prior to creation of a Death Knight. It's a different class than the others in lore, and Blizzard does somewhat respect that. Death Knight should be a raceless class imo.

One Death Knight per server should be the rule, regardless of faction. Death Knights are an unusual class imo, unless a race was introduced AFTER LK.
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"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."

Josof

join:2010-10-23
Virginia Beach, VA
reply to Adalicia
the only problem i have with dks is with nelfs and dranei. iirc the plague only affected the northern eastern kingdoms and didnt Arthas venture into northrend with only humans, dwarves, high elves and maybe a few pet gnomes.

i may be off base and dks were still being newly created as the whole alliance was venturing into northrend at the beginning of wrath but i always thought they were created in the warcraft frozen throne era.
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"Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat." - Sun Tzu


stonhinge
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join:2003-07-28
Topeka, KS
the DK starting area takes place just before the events that take place in Wrath of the Lich King. The upswing in Scourge population - including all those new death knights - plus the info from the Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon Blade is what gets the Alliance and Horde to head to Northrend. Plus it all takes place in Eastern Kingdoms, so NE/Draenei could have been captured and turned.

The Worgen/Goblin starter areas work in the same little "time warp" fashion - the events there take place just before the events in Cataclysm.

Any newly created DK/Worgen/Goblins are assumed to have just been wandering around or perhaps just mentally dealing with what just happened to their former home. Then they decide to do something about it and go adventuring.
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When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets.