dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
15
AsherN
Premium Member
join:2010-08-23
Thornhill, ON

AsherN to Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

to Jack_in_VA

Re: replace a smart meter with a non smart meter.

TOU billing works. It's about giving custmers an incentive to change some habits. And in most cases, it does not even require much change, other than a few buttons to push. A lot of the changes center around major appliances that don't have to run all the time. Think dishwasher, washer, dryer. Most of those now come with timers. The pricier ones have adustable timers. The cheaper ones will be fixed. I've had TOU billing for a couple of years. My bill has gone down. Changes to lifestyle? I still load my dishwasher right after dinner. But instead of selecting cleaning cycle and pressing 'start', I push the 4-hour timer button, select the cleaning cycle and press the 'start' button. Same with my washer.

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k

Premium Member

+1. Fact of the matter is that baseline, low power use is cheaper to make than peak power. Higher cost generators come online to create capacity for the peaks and are shut down asap once those peaks are over. So, utilities pay "time of generation" rates, why shouldn't they incentivize "time of use" rates to match?

I can imagine that non-TOU rates will become higher and higher as the smart meters are rolled out and individuals will be able to go and see their consumption patterns. The incentive for switching to TOU will become greater and greater.

Fronkman
An Apple a day keeps the doctor away
Premium Member
join:2003-06-23
Saint Louis, MO

Fronkman to AsherN

Premium Member

to AsherN
said by AsherN:

TOU billing works. It's about giving custmers an incentive to change some habits. And in most cases, it does not even require much change, other than a few buttons to push.

Bingo, this is it exactly. Customer demand is quickly approaching generation capacity. Currently it is really tough for the POCOs to build new plants (with environmental regulations and the overall cost of a new plant) so they need to figure out how to make the current system go further.

The bottom line approach is to more efficiently pass along the generation costs to the customer. You do this through 1) more accurate billing and 2) TOU billing (charge the customer more when it costs more to make the power).

Lazy, rich people will change absolutely nothing and throw a lot of unnecessary money away. Smart people (regardless of income) will change some habits (turn lights off when leaving a room, program washing machine/dishwasher/etc to run at night, turn up the thermostat a couple of degrees in the summer) or start to look at alternative power sources.

Personally, we will be going the route of PV with a new system scheduled to be installed this month. The system will be capable of generating our total monthly power usage during most months (we don't use much power, about 250-300 kWh /month for a family of 3) and will knock down our bill in the July and August. Based on power costs and the various incentives and tax rebates, it will pay for itself in 1.75 years.

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by Fronkman:

The bottom line approach is to more efficiently pass along the generation costs to the customer.

Personally, we will be going the route of PV with a new system scheduled to be installed this month. The system will be capable of generating our total monthly power usage during most months (we don't use much power, about 250-300 kWh /month for a family of 3) and will knock down our bill in the July and August. Based on power costs and the various incentives and tax rebates, it will pay for itself in 1.75 years.

Who is paying the incentives and tax rebates? Aren't you passing the part of the cost of your system on to others? There is nothing without a cost to someone.

mackey
Premium Member
join:2007-08-20

mackey

Premium Member

said by Jack_in_VA:

said by Fronkman:

The bottom line approach is to more efficiently pass along the generation costs to the customer.

Personally, we will be going the route of PV with a new system scheduled to be installed this month. The system will be capable of generating our total monthly power usage during most months (we don't use much power, about 250-300 kWh /month for a family of 3) and will knock down our bill in the July and August. Based on power costs and the various incentives and tax rebates, it will pay for itself in 1.75 years.

Who is paying the incentives and tax rebates? Aren't you passing the part of the cost of your system on to others? There is nothing without a cost to someone.

Not necessarily. Some states, such as Pennsylvania, mandate that a certain percentage of power is generated by "alternate" sources. If a power company does not maintain that percentage then they are heavily fined. It may in fact be cheaper for the power companies to pay small incentives to people to install solar/wind then it is for them to build the farms themselves.

/M

Jack_in_VA
Premium Member
join:2007-11-26
North, VA

Jack_in_VA

Premium Member

said by mackey:

Not necessarily. Some states, such as Pennsylvania, mandate that a certain percentage of power is generated by "alternate" sources. If a power company does not maintain that percentage then they are heavily fined. It may in fact be cheaper for the power companies to pay small incentives to people to install solar/wind then it is for them to build the farms themselves.

/M

POCO incentives make sense but tax rebates? To force all taxpayers to pay a select few to install alternative power sources is a stretch. I would not expect (or want) others paying their taxes to contribute anything toward a project like that.

Now if the government chose those living below the poverty line and having trouble paying their utilities then it might be viable to install whole systems, but to give to those of us well able to pay our own way.........

garys_2k
Premium Member
join:2004-05-07
Farmington, MI

garys_2k to Fronkman

Premium Member

to Fronkman
said by Fronkman:

Personally, we will be going the route of PV with a new system scheduled to be installed this month. The system will be capable of generating our total monthly power usage during most months (we don't use much power, about 250-300 kWh /month for a family of 3) and will knock down our bill in the July and August. Based on power costs and the various incentives and tax rebates, it will pay for itself in 1.75 years.

Wow, excellent payback! Please share the details of that system.

As for the political side, big gubbmint always incentivizes things it wants us to do, and in some cases that happens to be a good thing. I'd say this is one of those cases.

As I'm likely going to be building a new house soon I'm really interested in this stuff, too.