Topic 'Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?' in forum 'All Things Unix' - dslreports.com

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Sun, 17 Jun 2012 20:01:12 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by FastEddie:
Sorry it took me so long to answer.

The widget called Hide the Cashew on kde look.org was last Updated: Mar 6 2012. And the one I installed a while ago is still working.

I'll look again... if they arms race by KDE Devs is over on this.

For now just drag that !()@$!*()*!()* thing behind the kicker and it gets covered up!

Why can't KDE deves get it through their thick skulls, this should have an option to disable it in System Settings.... I better never run into the developer of that thing in a dark alley, or really anywhere... get a real proper earful! :p

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 21:40:21 EDT

dlsauers posted :

wm ......

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 10:32:01 EDT

FastEddie posted :

said by TuxRaiderPen:

said by FastEddie:

It's called a "Cashew" and you can get rid of it with a widget.

Does this still work? Kept updated? I have not looked since it broke a few versions back....

KDE devs were working hard to break this on each new update... did they finally quit?

Sorry it took me so long to answer.

The widget called Hide the Cashew on kde look.org was last Updated: Mar 6 2012. And the one I installed a while ago is still working.

Here's the link to it:

Py-Cashew 1.1

--
Here's To You

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 16:09:15 EDT

Maxo posted :

said by El Quintron:

Running answer seems to be that since Gnome went to the dogs, XFCE is a better alternative.

I had lunch with the two Xubuntu devs. They said they saw a big uptick in use after Gnome3 and Unity hit.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 14:08:53 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Ryan:

Personally I LOVE kde. 4.8 is stable as a rock and havent had any issues with it on my laptop or my work desktop.

I'll be giving it a roll, considering this machine has just been re-specced and has new hardware.

Not exactly sure which distro, but this is my most vanilla machine as well... so that should eliminate other issues that I might have while I take a separate learning curve.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:59:22 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by markofmayhem:
Those are six options to a panel superimposed onto a single screenshot... the second one down from the top is identical to KDE.

This isn't OpenBox, it is Tint2, a panel application.

What ever it is... its not intuitive to use... I looked at it and didn't understand it.... no definition to whats a program running v. bar. The icons on this task bar don't have any clear indication of what they do except for those for the network and sound and clock. .. the rest... who knows.... if I can't discern that in a quick look.. fail.

said by markofmayhem:
Look how confusing this shit is!
Oh no! No WAY to train people to use this!!! Quick, Penguinista ban on KDE!

First, Sorry Charlie! YOU don't get to decide the Bans... I Emperor of the Penguinistas am the only one empowered by me to enlist a ban. :p :D

Second, KDE is the ONLY Penguinista APPROVED DE, period.

You have to learn or be trained to use that kicker replacement.. Thats not in my plan and way too much effort.. I don't have that time nor does any employee have that time to invest in doing that... it also plays into that whole "glassy" look which I can't stand.. which is one of those annoyances of KDE4. and the icons in the lower right

This is one area where KDE fails, themes. and knowing what they will look like. The previews are often not enough.... I don't use it much... and what ever comes from the distro is what we get, sans one thing I download the naked theme, and use the transparent kicker bar panel by doing an edit to select that in place of the one included.. thats more effort than I should have to exert to do that, and more than what was needed in KDE 3.5.10 where it was simple check box that applied period. No themes, no composting, no BS.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:36:19 EDT

No_Strings posted : That must explain my affinity for it - I was made in the late 50s. :)

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:29:22 EDT

Ryan posted : Personally I LOVE kde. 4.8 is stable as a rock and havent had any issues with it on my laptop or my work desktop. I just dont like gnome 3 or unity. Unity is just UGLY imho and it is a pain in the ass to skin everything to hell. I dont really like the whole desktop experience gnome 3 offers, its not that I hate it I just dont care for it.

Also IMHO qt apps look MUCH prettier then gtk apps (well at least gtk2). I just hate the old ugly look of them. XFCE is a perfect example as it is riddled with the old gtk2 look. It just reminds me too much of the old XP days with the old grey menus and bad shadows. Dont get me wrong if I had an old PC xcfce would be great, but all my hardware is pretty up to date and I want something that looks like it wasnt made in the late 90's.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:16:01 EDT

markofmayhem posted : Those are six options to a panel superimposed onto a single screenshot... the second one down from the top is identical to KDE.

This isn't OpenBox, it is Tint2, a panel application.

Look how confusing this shit is!

Oh no! No WAY to train people to use this!!! Quick, Penguinista ban on KDE!

said by El Quintron:

I don't think any of these projects are dying, but I wish that Gnome would have focused a bit more on useability and user driven customization.

The amount of development and innovation both KDE and Gnome bring are staggering, I just wish that they would stop and think about general computing for a second, and keep making DEs that are aimed at, well, the Desktop.

I always thought the "Gnome 3's community is very closed off" statements from those submitting bug and enhancement patches were just "whining". As G3 was closer to release, I thought maybe their idea would bear great fruit. As minor revision 2 (version 3.4) is now released, I don't think they were whining at all. There is a very, VERY strong internal direction that was closed off to "influence". It is weakening as of late, but has quite a way to go.

XFCE's community is still a community in feel. I have yet to see a mailing list post start from a "manager" with "NO! NO! NO!" at the top...
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Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 13:12:27 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by firephoto:

GNOME loses some supporters so to keep the battle going you have to make sure the defectors keep fighting from a GTK class battle ship. ;)

In one line you've just nailed an entire M.O.

That was a pretty awesome an succinct analysis. :)
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:54:20 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by markofmayhem:
The other image was not a "desktop", it was the different ways of setting up a panel (taskbar) using Tint2... not a desktop, NOT A DESKTOP, examples, EXAMPLES of a panel in Openbox which many say is "hard to setup" because it has no panels.

This one:

said by markofmayhem:

I have no clue of any way to use that. What ever it is, its NOT for *me*... well I'll put down openbox as Penguinista banned. Yes I am narrowminded on the GUI metaphor.. taskbar on the bottom (YES thats a rule! :p ) menu open is the first icon on the lower left..etc...

I seen one posted here with a KDE Kicker on the top :o :o :o that shouldn't even be allowed! :D I know where it came from and I really just don't get it... yes its a personal preference... its just not where it goes! ! :p

Like I said.. some are on one spot of the line, others another...me another...

If that works... for you great... but ...

One, I am not here to put that kind of time into re-designing taskabrs, menus etc... thats what I expect the DE to do and come ready to do it...

Second, yes I am very narrowminded and closed minded on the way it should be setup.. The model has been cast. Maybe if when I finally adopted a GUI (long after most had!) that model is set... and its also what most are familar with... changing things causes issues...in this extreme.

Glad it works for you... but no chance it would work form... too much effort to start with.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:37:36 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by markofmayhem:

UI design is certainly in flux right now. The mobile GUI's have influence, some bad and good, as well as social media, push/pull notification/infotainment, cloud service: all competing for integration. Functionality gain for sure, but some UI's are loosing usability in the process :(

I agree that the "purpose" of consumer computing is changing, there's much more of a drive to send and receive communication over the internet, and a huge drive to make it easier and more convenient to do.

However, seeing as I already have both a tablet and smartphone, I really don't see a need to take this to my general purpose PC.

said by markofmayhem:

We're in flux, but at least choices still remain :) I just hope articles like this don't reduce contribution to projects that suddenly appear to be in a state of "dying", that would be unfortunate to say the least.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 12:18:10 EDT

firephoto posted :

said by El Quintron:

said by chrisretusn:

I am not all that interested in switching to anything else. KDE works for me. I am comfortable with KDE I have it figured out. That is all that counts. What ever works for others is true for them too. I'm OK with that.

I find myself in agreement (as I often have in this thread :p ) Slashdot could have stated their question better; like: "why is XFCE gaining more new users than KDE?"

It was said or in one of the linked articles but most likely it's just as simple as people using gtk applications and it's easier (in their mind) to only change the environment around their applications without worrying about their app changing it's look. Parts of this kind of reasoning is actually false but people are fearful of using a non-gtk environment because they know when they use KDE or Qt apps they tend to not fit in well. The reality is that KDE has great support for gtk applications.

Just hearing about these thing in the news is more of the decade long battle of all things GTK vs. KDE and Qt. GNOME loses some supporters so to keep the battle going you have to make sure the defectors keep fighting from a GTK class battle ship. ;)
--
Say no to JAMS!

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:42:11 EDT

markofmayhem posted :

said by El Quintron:

said by chrisretusn:

I find myself in agreement (as I often have in this thread :p ) Slashdot could have stated their question better; like: "why is XFCE gaining more new users than KDE?"

Now that would be useful info :) But I suppose it lacks the oomph in shocking headlines to create click-backs...

UI design is certainly in flux right now. The mobile GUI's have influence, some bad and good, as well as social media, push/pull notification/infotainment, cloud service: all competing for integration. Functionality gain for sure, but some UI's are loosing usability in the process :(

KDE works. So does Gnome 3. As well as XFCE and LXDE. Gnome 2 "like" projects are also alive and well. Freedom from preconceived design with a cost in personal investment has options (*boxes for example).

We're in flux, but at least choices still remain :) I just hope articles like this don't reduce contribution to projects that suddenly appear to be in a state of "dying", that would be unfortunate to say the least.
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Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 11:30:42 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by chrisretusn:

I find myself in agreement (as I often have in this thread :p ) Slashdot could have stated their question better; like: "why is XFCE gaining more new users than KDE?"

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:44:12 EDT

dennismurphy posted : My daily desktop is /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Resources/WindowServer

but when I'm using Linux in a desktop mode, I still use Window Maker... because it works.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Thu, 14 Jun 2012 09:25:54 EDT

markofmayhem posted :

said by TuxRaiderPen:

I have NO CLUE on how to use that system, not one bit and thats with 30+ years of computer use/development/building...

This one?

30 years experience??? Oh dear...

The other image was not a "desktop", it was the different ways of setting up a panel (taskbar) using Tint2... not a desktop, NOT A DESKTOP, examples, EXAMPLES of a panel in Openbox which many say is "hard to setup" because it has no panels.
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Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:54:02 EDT

chrisretusn posted : Just upgraded to KDE 4.8.90 (Beta 2). No bugs yet. ;)
[att=1]

My basic desktop, were it all starts.
[att=2]
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:19:00 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by EUS:
Users: eus, wife, kids

Example of login/logout that seems to come and go as updates come and go:
When either wife, or kids login to a new session while eus has locked his session, eus' desktop appears for a brief while before the new user's session kicks in. Locked sessions should never be seen by other users, ever. This appears to be fixed in latest debian testing release, time will tell.

Never noticed... guess since I don't let others touch my PC(s) ever! They might get ssh or XDMCP access but not even close to being able to be any where physically close to them...

said by EUS:
Example login sound issue: Upon a clean start, if anyone other than eus logs in first, audio will not work in either web pages, or amarok, or even vlc.
Eus must login first so that other users can enjoy multimedia with audio components.
In all my years using gnome and kde (pre4 series), I have never seen this behavior.

This to me seems like a distro issue not a KDE issue.. and most likely that users are not part of the same groups that the original user is that allows audio access.

said by EUS:
Example of paste to desktop: Sometimes I want to access the desktop quickly for whatever reason, be it to paste a file, quickly create a file/folder, or just simply a quick drag and drop form another source.

access the desktop quickly, there is an item by default at least the distros I use with KDE that lets you get to the desktop instantly.

As for pasting things to the desktop... well I don't work that way... so I don't understand... I don't paste files to my desktop... no no no no ... icons are the only thing allowed on the desktop..theres like 6 and the rest is open so I can see my wall paper when not coverd with windows.. not often... but the wallpaper is just as important a part of my desktop as other features... I open Konqi and navigate to where I want the file to be in the file system... but the desktop does not contain files... just icons to start programs, access folders.

said by EUS:
Yes, a widget could be created, but the extra time it takes for the extra steps seems counter-intuitive. Perhaps I'm not a 'everything must be widgets, it's the future, you will learn to love it' type of guy.

NO @$!*(!)* WIDGETS! I don't use them, don't care for them.

said by EUS:
So, little annoyances add up over time, and there has always been annoyances when using linux on the desktop, but at the end of the day, I do feel I get more than my money's worth. However, I can see why people would try KDE, get frustrated, say 'meh', and go back to whatever they were using before.

I still have little annoyances in KDE 4.x... but to use your own logic.. I've looked at non KDE... they leave me less than "meh" and I don't see their draw unless their users like being told how dumb they are since No you can't change that! No... No... No...

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:02:01 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by markofmayhem:

C OpenBox isn't bad either, if you have the time to track down the other packages you like/want to build the DE. Tint2 is usually a great start for that taskbar look and feel.

Based on that image... I have NO CLUE on how to use that system, not one bit and thats with 30+ years of computer use/development/building...I could do more presented with a Konsole window than that! :o I could not put a user at that desktop and have them get any thing done with out a lot of retraining, which there is NO BUDGET to do.. you can bemoan thats bad business. I don't disagree are you willing to PAY MORE for product/service/taxes to pay for that? No I didn't think so. Additionally, based on the "time to track..." I don't have time to develop a DE etc... not especially when KDE is ready to rock and roll.... Yeah you betcha I had and still have issues with KDE 4.x v. 3.5.10......cashew...but there is no substitute for it, and espsecially that. Totatlly clueless.

LIke I said before your at one point along the line. others another... me another... Now I did NOT say that it should not be available... but as the standard... don't think so...

Oh and turn in your Linux card... a b[censored]ng wall paper....good grief! :o :D :p

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:39:40 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by markofmayhem:
I wholly agree with you, bloat is misused on the intarwebz. However, when that "option" is a memory sucking, cpu using, non-shut-offable, non-removable "feature"... then I start using the word freely. If it was a simple check box that when cleared made it go away, then yes, bloat is definitely misused :)

Ahh.... at last finally some one willing to nail down a definition on "their view" of bloat... I just don't see that x feature I don't like/want/use there should be a check box and that turns it off and the code is exiled off to the Land of Misfit Code. I don't see that as a viable coding model... That would be a nightmare to maintain.. in the past of 1MB RAM v. 4, ,8, 16 GB memory I might agree.. not now... I just don't see the bloat that all too many moan about.

So its clear were not in agreement on that "b" word.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 22:31:04 EDT

shrtckt posted : Hmm. I used fluxbox for a long time... Until I wanted to learn Lua. I now use the Awesome wm & I will quite possibly never change again. It's simple, quick, & I can program and/or customize it to do anything I could ever possibly want. What I'm getting at is > I look at KDE & Gnome like a salad bar (or the Linux kernel), I just take or use what I want & just leave the rest. Yes, I use a bit of their apps (some are very well built), however, I'll never use one of them as a WM.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 21:27:38 EDT

chrisretusn posted : Actually here is the question: "Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?" ;) ;)

There are a lot of people using KDE. I'm using KDE with Slackware and PCLinux, my oldest daughter is using it too. Most of the gripes I've heard about KDE are from folks who I suspect haven't used KDE is awhile. Every desktop has problems, not just in Linux either. I can adapt. I have my current favorite which is KDE. I am not all that interested in switching to anything else. KDE works for me. I am comfortable with KDE I have it figured out. That is all that counts. What ever works for others is true for them too. I'm OK with that. You can't please everyone, we all have different taste. I don't like a lot of clutter on my desktop for example. I have composting enabled but not to much of the fancy stuff. I prefer function over cuteness.
--
Chris
Living in Paradise!!

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 18:26:48 EDT

Davesnothere posted :

said by El Quintron:

Actually it's not a fork, because the subject in question is about a DE... the DE is question being Compiz Standalone

OK, a SPOON then. :p

BTW, I checked those links and the 2nd one suggests that MANY tweaks are possible, including to my deal-breaker : window controls location.

Though for something OOB friendly, Cinnamon & MATE, offered with Mint 13, each do very much impress me.

Thanks.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:44:56 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Davesnothere:

Please, to what were you referring when you said THAT and IT ? :)

Too many forks in this topic, I say ! :p

Actually it's not a fork, because the subject in question is about a DE... the DE is question being Compiz Standalone
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 17:23:26 EDT

Davesnothere posted :

said by EUS:

I hope I'm not the only one here who has no idea what that is, or how one goes about using it.

Please, to what were you referring when you said THAT and IT ? :)

Too many forks in this topic, I say ! :p

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:09:48 EDT

markofmayhem posted :

said by rexbinary:

Bing wallpaper? My eyes are burning!! :D

Hahaha, I didn't notice that :)

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 14:05:51 EDT

rexbinary posted : Bing wallpaper? My eyes are burning!! :D

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:37:18 EDT

markofmayhem posted :

said by TuxRaiderPen:

said by nwrickert:
KDE4 has a feature called activities. I am unable to figure what I would ever use that for. I did use it back with version 4.4.4, when that was the only way to have different wallpaper on each virtual desktop. But that no longer requires activities, which seem to be unnecessary bloat.

Well I never understood them either, and I've heard all kinds of explanations.. I just don't work that way...

But this leads to that "b" word I despise..."bloat."

I don't see having options, features as bloat... Ok maybe you and I don't get it or use them.... some one else may might... I am not totally against including things I don't use... I don't see it as bloat just because I don't use it...

I wholly agree with you, bloat is misused on the intarwebz. However, when that "option" is a memory sucking, cpu using, non-shut-offable, non-removable "feature"... then I start using the word freely. If it was a simple check box that when cleared made it go away, then yes, bloat is definitely misused :)
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Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:27:08 EDT

markofmayhem posted :

said by EUS:

I hope I'm not the only one here who has no idea what that is, or how one goes about using it.

It is many different panel, or taskbar, types on a screenshot at once in "setup mode". It is showing shortcut bars, what's running, a clock, notification tray, etc... just like any other normal panel. It is highly configurable, similar to Gnome 2's panels. It is in "config" mode in each instance.

said by El Quintron:

said by markofmayhem:

Compiz standalone may be of interest, less curve.

That's a very good looking DE you have there.

Can't take credit, it is the screenshot on Tint2's website.

Here's an openbox themed setup with a "panel" on top and conky on the bottom. It is a funtional window's use system without the DE bloat, and yes I mean bloat... installed and running applications/services not being nor going to be used that can not be removed easily bloat.

My current setup looks more like a tile manager than a window manager DE. I don't use Linux much outside of Emacs and GCC these days, its been a year or so since I've been able to play :(
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Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:07:08 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by FiReSTaRT:

With the bottom taskbar extension and a couple of applets, it's both slick and usable.

I like the top/left combo, or top/docky combo too, I'm going to have to give Mint another roll... they seems to be going in more user friendly direction.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:05:06 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by nwrickert:
KDE4 has a feature called activities. I am unable to figure what I would ever use that for. I did use it back with version 4.4.4, when that was the only way to have different wallpaper on each virtual desktop. But that no longer requires activities, which seem to be unnecessary bloat.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:01:36 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by EUS:

I hope I'm not the only one here who has no idea what that is, or how one goes about using it.

You certainly aren't. I just like the way it looks at first glance.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:00:59 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by FastEddie:

It's called a "Cashew" and you can get rid of it with a widget.

Does this still work? Kept updated? I have not looked since it broke a few versions back....

KDE devs were working hard to break this on each new update... did they finally quit?

This really should be an option to kill that stupid thing! :mad:

I have another way.. I just move it down under the taskbar/kicker and it gets covered up! :D

stupidest 1!)($*!()@*$!)*!_)($_!( idea this century... no make it 2nd.. waycrapland makes the top of the list..

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:57:54 EDT

TuxRaiderPen posted :

said by markofmayhem:
Gnome

g[censored] anything is bad, period.

said by markofmayhem:
KDE is just... strange. It's like Alice in Windowsland. It is almost exactly like Windows XP until it is just different for the sake to be different. Why? Why copy someone else and then lazily change a small thing here and there? Do they really think they are fooling anyone?

No I don't think they are fooling any one, nor trying to... but they are attempting to make desktop environment that is drop dead easy for the convert to take over and use Linux.

said by markofmayhem:
It's all so bad. Windows 95, 98, XP, NT, 2000, Vista, OSX, Gnome 2, KDE 3 or 4, XFCE, LXDE (even worse): crap. 17 years of the same lame crap.......... I don't want a start menu or "screen", I don't want a clock with "notifications", I don't need words in box in a longer box to show me what programs I'm using (I'm using them! Why do these DE's think you are the dumbest shit to ever grace the planet???)...

OK... I think this is the root of the issue.... your at one end of the user spectrum, I am at some other point along the line, others at another point, etc...

Novices coming in from that heinous pile of steaming cruft posing as an operating system have pre-existing ideas on how to use a GUI based desktop... taking and throwing that out and expecting[demanding] the user use some other metaphor, will NOT WORK to migrate users... period. Nor will corporate installs happen if they have to retrain people from the start, again. Its hard enough to get training at all, bad economy or not, your going to throw all that out to use some other metaphor... BZZT! That just killed any chance of adoption... thats why I chose KDE based for my conversion project... the bonheads in luser cubeville don't really know its different, expect "oooo pretty different clicky thingys!" The fact remains they knew to click the geary thingy to do their tasks or an icon I setup on the desktop to go to their annoited tasks and duties... they don't really have a clue its not the same old OS. The only real sticking point is they have to get used to single click. No more double clicking. Yes I did it on purpose for a reason.

Having the ability to ease them into a path where they then can decide to do all the stupid lame spinny wobly thingys etc.. Or move to having the taksbar in the wrong spot (top) or no window buttons (WRONG!) thats fine... if they want to choose that route later on...having a point to ease them to that makes converting to Linux a lot easier than having to fight.... Why is there no buttons to close the window? Or how do I change this setting? Or..... it only takes a few of these for the conversion to a real OS to end abrubtly.

You can view that the past 20 or so years is the wrong metaphor to continue on the desktop, but I will argue that the alleged "better thing" ala smartphone and tablets is not proper for the desktop. On a smartphone or tablet device, fine...and I think the reaction g[censored] and u[censored]y proves that on the desktop the users don't want it... the real test is about to come from some where else...who also followed some DE's down this hole...I think that this metaphor developed almost 30 years ago has shown its strength in its longevitiy...

KDE makes sense to me, other dont' too simplistic. In some cases, ie: limited hardware they make perfect sense. I also like the fact it came from Germany.

Why reinvent the wheel and solve problems that don't exist. If you want to have options to go another route, fine... OPTION AWAY!
I think KDE probably offers the best route to go that way, even if you want to do some of the things I feel are heinously wrong! taskbar/kiker at the top etc..

said by markofmayhem:
Compiz stand alone is also refreshing, try it without the Unity plug-in sometime.

NO that pile of feces is just that and thanks to its authors spout, it will never grace any Linux system I control, sell, manage or anything else. It does things any way which I find of little use any way.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:56:06 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by markofmayhem:

Compiz standalone may be of interest, less curve.

That's a very good looking DE you have there.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:55:02 EDT

EUS posted : I hope I'm not the only one here who has no idea what that is, or how one goes about using it.
--
~ Project Hope ~

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 12:44:59 EDT

markofmayhem posted : Compiz standalone may be of interest, less curve. OpenBox isn't bad either, if you have the time to track down the other packages you like/want to build the DE. Tint2 is usually a great start for that taskbar look and feel.

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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 11:08:12 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by markofmayhem:

Other areas of it are too locked down to enjoy it as a whole, though.

I agree, if anything taking this back to Gnome2, G2 had a relatively easy learning curve coming from either Win or OS X, and whatever it didn't do, you could make it releatively easily.

There's none of this in Gnome 3... I'd take the extra hour customizing it to meet my needs, if it swung that way.

said by markofmayhem:

I'm fluctuating between OpenBox and FluxBox. I don't want a start menu or "screen", I don't want a clock with "notifications", I don't need words in box in a longer box to show me what programs I'm using (I'm using them! Why do these DE's think you are the dumbest shit to ever grace the planet???)... Compiz stand alone is also refreshing, try it without the Unity plug-in sometime.

Although I want all of the things you don't, I think OpenBox (can't speak for Fluxbox) has the right philosophy because it literally allows you to build to DE from the bottom up, I just don't think it would be appealing to the novice user.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:42:04 EDT

nwrickert posted :

said by El Quintron:

Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

I'm using KDE4. What's their problem?

Running answer seems to be that since Gnome went to the dogs, XFCE is a better alternative.

I used fvwm for many years. And I would probably still find it adequate.

I gave KDE (then KDE3) a try back in 2004, but I didn't much like it. So then I tried Gnome, which seemed to be more congenial, though bloated with a lot of stuff that I didn't really need.

I stayed with Gnome for several years. But I found it was becoming increasing difficult to configure to use the way that I liked. So, in 2010, I experimented around. I really liked XFCE, which reminded me of earlier Gnome version, before the Gnome developers got too control-freaky. I also tried KDE (then at version 4.4.4). It was grossly bloated, but it actually worked rather well. And it had a killer application -- I could set it to automatically disable the touchpad if a USB mouse was detected.

I have been using KDE ever since. It has become more bloated, but also more stable. Using "synaptiks", I can still have it disable the touchpad when another mouse is detected.

Present status:

Desktop, where I do most of my work: I pretty much exclusively use KDE 4, though Gnome, XFCE and LXDE are installed.

Work desktop: That's an older slower computer. I have KDE4, Gnome, LXDE and XFCE installed. But I mainly use "icewm" which provides all that I actually need and runs faster.

Older semi-retired laptop: I'm using this as a test machine. I vacillate between icewm and XFCE, though I have other desktops installed. It turns out that I can start "synaptiks" in both icewm and XFCE. I also start "nm-applet" and the gnome polkit agent in "icewm" so that I can configure wifi from there.

Newer laptop, used when travelling: On my last trip, I only used XFCE. When it is at home, I use it to experiment with all of the installed desktops.

As for Amarok - I don't use it often. It seems to have gotten worse, but it is good enough for the way that I use it.

KDE4 has a feature called activities. I am unable to figure what I would ever use that for. I did use it back with version 4.4.4, when that was the only way to have different wallpaper on each virtual desktop. But that no longer requires activities, which seem to be unnecessary bloat.
--
AT&T Uverse; Zyxel NBG334W router (behind the 2wire gateway); openSuSE 12.1; firefox 12.0

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:37:30 EDT

FastEddie posted :
It's called a "Cashew" and you can get rid of it with a widget.

When I started using Linux I picked Kubuntu (KDE) way back at version 6 or so. I tried GNOME but didn't like it because it was "menu driven". I prefer "windows". I've had no problems with KDE and figure if it ain't broke keep using it. So here I am about 7 years later still using KDE.

--
Here's To You

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 10:26:56 EDT

justine posted : Does it still have the little "almond" or whatever that you can't get rid of, in the corner of the screen? That was pretty obnoxious IMHO.

I tried KDE in early 4 series and it was incredibly slow. Then later versions were fast, and I liked how customizable it was, but the file manager started freaking out, and it was always running a lot of little junky features that I didn't want.

Happy now with Xfce :)

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 09:37:02 EDT

markofmayhem posted : Gnome 3 isn't bad, not good either. The javascript shell opens a world to create any plug-in you can begin typing. Other areas of it are too locked down to enjoy it as a whole, though.

KDE is just... strange. It's like Alice in Windowsland. It is almost exactly like Windows XP until it is just different for the sake to be different. Why? Why copy someone else and then lazily change a small thing here and there? Do they really think they are fooling anyone?

XFCE did it better, they just straight up copied Windows 95 and held their middle finger up saying "we ain't changing".

It's all so bad. Windows 95, 98, XP, NT, 2000, Vista, OSX, Gnome 2, KDE 3 or 4, XFCE, LXDE (even worse): crap. 17 years of the same lame crap.

I'm fluctuating between OpenBox and FluxBox. I don't want a start menu or "screen", I don't want a clock with "notifications", I don't need words in box in a longer box to show me what programs I'm using (I'm using them! Why do these DE's think you are the dumbest shit to ever grace the planet???)... Compiz stand alone is also refreshing, try it without the Unity plug-in sometime.
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Show off that hardware: join Team Discovery and Team Helix

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 01:46:53 EDT

firephoto posted : »www.datamation.com/open-source/t···e-1.html

quote:
Over the last fourteen months, discontent with Unity and the GNOME 3 series of releases have sent GNOME users galloping in all directions in their search for alternatives. Xfce and Linux Mint's Cinnamon and Mate in particular have benefited from this search. However, one alternative that users have not considered to any extent is KDE.

Considering the years in which GNOME and KDE were considered the main desktop environments for Linux, this trend is surprising at first.

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Wed, 13 Jun 2012 00:18:45 EDT

BBBanditRuR posted : I think you hit it on the head: The conundrum of when KDE4 came out, the drive to use it was there, but the software was not ready. Now it's mature(ed...ing???) - but the end users moved on.
--

quote:
There's probably a lesson in there ... somewhere.

It's 10:00 P.M., do you know which desktop they are?

... sorry, flashbacks

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 23:45:13 EDT

FiReSTaRT posted : I've used GNOME Shell and it was OK with MGSE and some other extensions installed but a bit of a hog. XFCE was less of a hog, more natural, more configurable, but more buggy. Been using Cinnamon as my DE of choice for a couple of months now and loving it. With the bottom taskbar extension and a couple of applets, it's both slick and usable.
--
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.
�George Bernard Shaw

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:28:37 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by chrisretusn:

I like KDE, I am currently testing KDE 4.8.80 (4.9 beta 1) right now and so for have not found a single bug. It is quite and improvement over older versions.

If that's the case it'll be good news... I'm a little disappointed by the Unity/Gnome I'd like to see a unified desktop environment that distros could be built around.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:25:27 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Davesnothere:

This new UNITY on recent Ubuntu has some pros & cons, but the one stumbling block for ME on both Unity and GNOME is that although they both are fine to config for my way of doing WiFi, I cannot relearn (and do not WANT to) which corner to which to move my mouse in a window, if I wish to close it - DEAL-BREAKER ! - I DO hope I named the appropriate GUIs when raising that point, as it's all a bit of a blur yet. :)

I have a bunch of shortcuts and tips and tricks bookmarked. If you need anything specific for Unity PM me your questions and I can give you or look it up quickly.

Most people here would too, if you want to post your question.

Cheers,
Eq
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:11:34 EDT

sempergoofy posted : I am a KDE4 user. I gave up on gnome a few years ago and found KDE to be better for me. I wouldn't be unwilling to try another desktop, but I just don't need the hassle of learning another without a very good reason.
--
nohup rm -fr /&

Re: Slashdot Asks why isn't anyone using KDE?

Tue, 12 Jun 2012 20:46:19 EDT

El Quintron posted :

said by Rexter:

I also don't understand the sentiment that Gnome went to the dogs. Sure the default interface has changed, but hey, it's open, you don't have to use the default.

I've been wanting to respond to this especially...

I think most people were disappointed with lost (perceived or otherwise) functionality. I think the UI is actually fairly good looking, I just hate not being able to do anything with it, and I despise the universal menu.

Hence my agreement with the "gone to the dogs" assessment.
--
Everything in moderation... Including Moderation --Oscar Wilde