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freejazz_RdJ

join:2009-03-10
kudos:1
reply to elwoodblues

Re: [Rant] Work locked down laptop

said by elwoodblues:

said by Gone:

The problem is that the HR person is looking for a MCSE a CCNA a CCIE and a VCP (in the above example) at the request of the hiring manager. Not on your resume, it goes into the trash folder.

So assuming I can do all just the same, I'm still not getting past HR because I don't have those titles? beside my name or I can't demonstrate on my resume that I've gotten them. Remember HR knows SFA, and are scanning for the keywords that match the job description. A small business, for sure, but not a larger company.

It's not that cut and dry.

So? Start lower on the totem pole. I work every day with guys who finished high school, worked a crap job and then landed in IT somehow because they were hard working and yes lucky / personable / attractive as well. They get a course or two reimbursed while they're at the bottom a move up a rung every few years.

My take is that you either have the ability to take a block of time to go to school for these things full-time (i.e. fresh from high school or life changing event that forces retraining, etc.) OR you build it up and move up over time. Even if you can't get it paid by your employer, the investment of $5k to pass a CCIE (books, materials, bootcamp course) will give you a return if you can make use of it.


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to donoreo
Having thought about the overall issue more, this whole thing is bothering me because I never wanted this particular job in the first place. I knew it would not be rewarding or interesting or develop my skills (although I am learning the oddities of the Korn Shell on AIX) to any useful degree. I only took it because I had to. My wife was laid off from Bell last year and is still not permanently employed, she has only had two short term contracts. The higher level you are, the longer it takes to find another job so it it taking her a while being a Director/VP level marketing weenie.

While I am willing to make the sacrifice of taking a job I only took because I needed to for my family, I would like to make the best of it. I was told before I started there was on call. I was not told that there were upgrades/patches to be installed every weekend for which I need access to the servers. I have not stopped looking but not much is turning up. My problem seems to be that I worked for companies that actually made things. As a result I have very little experience with high volume transactional websites and that is what is in demand.

I have thought about changing careers, but I am not sure what else.

So, back to the topic...I will be testing the VPN tomorrow from the cottage. In the meantime we have requested that I get temporary admin access to my laptop so that I can install iTunes to get the iPhone ethernet drivers so I can tether using USB. One less wireless connection. I will probably not get that today.
--
The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to freejazz_RdJ
said by freejazz_RdJ:

My take is that you either have the ability to take a block of time to go to school for these things full-time (i.e. fresh from high school or life changing event that forces retraining, etc.) OR you build it up and move up over time. Even if you can't get it paid by your employer, the investment of $5k to pass a CCIE (books, materials, bootcamp course) will give you a return if you can make use of it.

So what you're saying is that if someone already has skills and can demonstrate those skills you want them to waste their money and, more importantly, time just for a piece of paper, and that you hold that piece of paper in higher value than the actual skills that they demonstrate?

You pretty just summarized why I think the whole industry is centred around a bunch of bullshit, and this one of a few reasons why I never want to work in it again unless I'm working for myself.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
said by Gone:

So what you're saying is that if someone already has skills and can demonstrate those skills you want them to waste their money and, more importantly, time just for a piece of paper, and that you hold that piece of paper in higher value than the actual skills that they demonstrate?

Exactly my sentiments, back when the tests were multiple guess (just googled, they're still around), there so many "boot camps" in which over the period of several weeks, you'd have the information drilled into your head, take and pass the tests and voilà we've got a MSCE, a "highly coveted" piece of paper.

But what did/do they really know?

To me, experience should always speak volumes over a piece of paper that said I took a test and passed.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
said by elwoodblues:

said by Gone:

So what you're saying is that if someone already has skills and can demonstrate those skills you want them to waste their money and, more importantly, time just for a piece of paper, and that you hold that piece of paper in higher value than the actual skills that they demonstrate?

Exactly my sentiments, back when the tests were multiple guess (just googled, they're still around), there so many "boot camps" in which over the period of several weeks, you'd have the information drilled into your head, take and pass the tests and voilà we've got a MSCE, a "highly coveted" piece of paper.

But what did/do they really know?

To me, experience should always speak volumes over a piece of paper that said I took a test and passed.

My Red Hat certification was all practical, no written. There were guys with CompTIA certs and MSCEs in the class and over half the class failed. I did a week long intensive 10 hour day course with the exam on Friday.
--
The irony of common sense, it is not that common.
I cannot deny anything I did not say.
A kitten dies every time someone uses "then" and "than" incorrectly.
I mock people who give their children odd spelling of names.


Gone
Premium
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON
kudos:4
reply to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:

But what did/do they really know?

I've met more dumfuck "IT People" with a binder full of Microsoft and Cisco certifications than I can count. This is probably why the industry is so fucked up to begin with, you've got a bunch of incompetent people running around trying to do stuff they have no clue how to do and yet they're hired into positions of skill because clowns who don't know any better hire them because they have a binder full of toilet paper. It's a never-ending cycle of stupidity.

I'm personally of the belief that in order for someone to be talented in the field of IT, they need to have solid cognitive reasoning and problem solving skills more than anything else. If you are good at thinking things through and have a mental process in place for solving problems you'll do good at the job and will figure out whatever gets thrown at you regardless of the training you may have, and you'll become better and better at the job as time goes on. If you can't do that - and trust me, not everyone can - no amount of training or certification will make you good at the job, and they'll never progress beyond the surface.


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Not to mention there is a huge industry centred around certifications.


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
said by elwoodblues:

Not to mention there is a huge industry centred around certifications.

I think Novell is to blame for that. I think at one point they were making more revenue from training than product sales. Back in the day everyone had a CNA or CNE.


urbanriot
Premium
join:2004-10-18
Canada
kudos:3
Reviews:
·Cogeco Cable
reply to Gone
said by Gone:

I've met more dumfuck "IT People" with a binder full of Microsoft and Cisco certifications than I can count.

Same. And these days, I meet more big wig IT project managers, directors, operations managers, etc., that know sweet fuck all about what they're directing / operating / managing, and basically argue on general management philosophies against your, "this is what you must do, there is no choice, this isn't a philosophical issue, it's a technical requirement." Basically they were shit at hands-on yet somehow moved up the ranks and they're still useless.

said by Gone:

I'm personally of the belief that in order for someone to be talented in the field of IT, they need to have solid cognitive reasoning and problem solving skills more than anything else.

I wholeheartedly agree with this quote and everything else you wrote, however the issue becomes more complicated as you move deeper into the world of corporate IT as you find people that have plenty of these abilities which work great for problem solving and hands on repair, but don't work so well for systems designing, procedure creation, documentation, and they're often missing integral requirements that are necessary for communicating IT requirements or configurations.

The whole reason I went about certification a few decades ago was because I was wading into those waters and couldn't communicate in the big leagues as I didn't understand these fancy new terms that people were using, terms that I thoroughly understand in detail at the hands on, technological level; but I didn't know the large scope terms and furthermore, didn't have the experience thinking at the large scope level.

After that, I bought every certification testing book for any of the systems I'd be working with and spent months getting every certification that would put me at their level (minus the comp. sci university degree) and I was then on the same page as them. Better yet, I was chapters ahead since I had the knowledge and plenty of skilled hands-on experience.

So basically, anyone can be a hotshot computer fixer without the useless certs but you'd better know those certification books back to back if you want to play in the world of corporate IT, and you better know Cisco IOS inside and out... at least until you're in a position to manage the people that know what you don't.

said by donoreo:

said by elwoodblues:

Not to mention there is a huge industry centred around certifications.

I think Novell is to blame for that.

Yea, except Novell had adaptive testing where you had to have a decent understanding of what you were doing or you were fucked.


donoreo
Premium
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON
reply to donoreo
So, I was able to tweak a keep alive setting on the VPN and I was able to stay connected for over 45 minutes last night. That is certainly good enough for being on call and will probably work for installs as well. I move all the files to the servers before I leave work anyway.

I am on my tethered connection right now with my own laptop and it is pretty speedy.

Warez_Zealot

join:2006-04-19
Vancouver
reply to donoreo
You guys might get a kick out of this article:

»spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/at-wor···n=062112

It's actually a podcast if you wanna listen to it.

NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
reply to donoreo
said by donoreo:

So, I was able to tweak a keep alive setting on the VPN and I was able to stay connected for over 45 minutes last night. That is certainly good enough for being on call and will probably work for installs as well. I move all the files to the servers before I leave work anyway.

I am on my tethered connection right now with my own laptop and it is pretty speedy.

How much wireless data will a VPN session chew up though? That would be my only worry if I'm paying for it (If the company is paying, no worries)

This sort of think though is why I'm glad I'm in the legal profession despite have a Computer Programmer diploma (I'm an IT Help Desk's worst nightmare too, you try to BS me and I call you on it every time )

NefCanuck


Paolo
Mr. Wireless

join:2004-05-29
canada
theres small overhead in a vpn session, not enough to make a huge impact though on your bandwith limits
--
Happiness is like peeing your pants... Everyone can see it, but only you can feel its Warmth!!


elwoodblues
Elwood Blues
Premium
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
kudos:2
Reviews:
·VMedia
reply to NefCanuck
said by NefCanuck:

This sort of think though is why I'm glad I'm in the legal profession despite have a Computer Programmer diploma (I'm an IT Help Desk's worst nightmare too, you try to BS me and I call you on it every time )

NefCanuck

You don't want to have an unexpected restart.
--
No, I didn't. Honest... I ran out of gas. I... I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake.......

NefCanuck

join:2007-06-26
Mississauga, ON
Reviews:
·voip.ms
said by elwoodblues:

said by NefCanuck:

This sort of think though is why I'm glad I'm in the legal profession despite have a Computer Programmer diploma (I'm an IT Help Desk's worst nightmare too, you try to BS me and I call you on it every time )

NefCanuck

You don't want to have an unexpected restart.

Oh let those IT gremlins try, I know all their tricks way too well

I did IT Help Desk for our funder for a year as part of a program to try and give the IT Department a better understanding of how clinics work (all I learned frankly is how little the IT Help Desks actually "works" :P)

NefCanuck