dslreports logo
 
    All Forums Hot Topics Gallery
spc
uniqs
12

mityfowl
Premium Member
join:2000-11-06
Dallas, TX

mityfowl to bobrk

Premium Member

to bobrk

Re: Water Heater Brand Recommendations

said by bobrk:

Actually, if the price is right, it could be a big deal, especially if they swapped it out before it failed and always gave you a very efficient one.

Gave you one?

When did the government or a monopoly give you something that you could have bought yourself for a 1/3 of the price in the long run!

tp0d
yabbazooie
Premium Member
join:2001-02-13
Bulger, PA

tp0d

Premium Member

Looks like I`m late to the game..

Heaters typically fail due to 1- thermal expansion, and 2- internal corrosion.

If you have a newer home, you probably have a thermal expansion tank installed on the cold water line. These have an air bladder inside that controls the expansion of water. If the air bladder goes flat, the tank is useless. Air pressure in the tank should be within 5psi of the house static pressure, but must be checked with no water pressure in the expansion tank. Expansion is the #1 killer of tank style water heaters, and usually causes a dramatic, large failure.

The anode rod on most bradford heaters is on the hot outlet nipple, meaning the hot outlet pipe must be cut to remove+replace the rod. Other brands (including AOS) have a seperate 1-1/16" threaded plug for the anode.

If you're like most 5-10yr old homes, you probably have a standard atmospheric (chimney) operated water heater. (metal pipe off the top). AO Smith makes a very efficient atmospheric unit, the Effex. Its one of the only atmospheric heaters to qualify for the Energy Star rating..

»www.hotwater.com/water-h ··· s/effex/

Or, if you have a power vent heater (plastic pipe off the blower), I would recommend an AO Smith Vertex heater. I install these all the time, the fan is very quiet, they are 94-96% efficient, and make a helluva lot of hot water.

»www.hotwater.com/water-h ··· /vertex/

If you have a large family, or have large groups of people over for the holidays, a tankless would work well.. They are typically 2x-3x as much as a tank heater, depending on install. But they do last twice as long, take up 1/4 the space, do not require an expansion tank, and when they leak, its a slow dripper, not a flood. I would highly recommend a high efficiency Rinnai.

»www.rinnai.us/tankless-w ··· 237ffud/

Both the high efficiency Vertex and the Rinnai qualify for a 10% fed tax credit

Any detailed questions, PM me

-j

FiReSTaRT
Premium Member
join:2010-02-26
Canada

FiReSTaRT

Premium Member

Tankless units are almost an "all or nothing" kinda deal. If you just want luke-warm or a trickle of hot, you might not get it, so I'm not a big fan of them, unless you install a storage tank, but then you might as well just go with a standard unit and make sure your tank is sized right for the load.

Condensing (high efficiency) tanks have higher flue gas temperatures than most manufacturers are willing to admit. If it's not already in the specs, pay the few extra bucks and have the first 5' of venting in CPVC as it's rated for higher temps than PVC. Same amount of time and material cost, after markup should still be under $100 extra. Well worth it if you don't like the idea of flue gases escaping into occupied (by you and your family) space.

macsierra8
Baby Newfoundland
Premium Member
join:2003-11-30
Minden, NV

macsierra8

Premium Member

said by FiReSTaRT:

Tankless units are almost an "all or nothing" kinda deal. If you just want luke-warm or a trickle of hot, you might not get it, so I'm not a big fan of them, unless you install a storage tank, but then you might as well just go with a standard unit and make sure your tank is sized right for the load.

Condensing (high efficiency) tanks have higher flue gas temperatures than most manufacturers are willing to admit. If it's not already in the specs, pay the few extra bucks and have the first 5' of venting in CPVC as it's rated for higher temps than PVC. Same amount of time and material cost, after markup should still be under $100 extra. Well worth it if you don't like the idea of flue gases escaping into occupied (by you and your family) space.

Your observations are completely different from those of us here who have and regularly use top brand tankless heaters. I have no trouble adjusting water temps high or low volume.

As for flue pipe and gas temperatures I have no data on that but the Rinnai PVC 5" OD flue pipe I use is metal lined pipe. With the cool flue gas temps I've experienced coming out of the heater I doubt the gas escaping enigma & melting the pipe is a problem with OEM pipe.

FiReSTaRT
Premium Member
join:2010-02-26
Canada

FiReSTaRT

Premium Member

The units in question were Rinnais but who knows, maybe they never bothered with proper adjustment, just put'em in and forgot about'em (the guys who did that don't usually play with residential appliances). They probably just needed hot water, space at a premium, insulating pipe too much work, so they slapped a couple on the wall and called it a day.

As for the flue gas temps.. Tankless units usually need special venting, while regular condensing HWT's and Cat-IV boilers are normally vented with PVC. Those are the units I'm talking about. In most cases, PVC isn't rated for the flue gas temps that those units put out, so you need to go with CPVC.

bobrk
You kids get offa my lawn
Premium Member
join:2000-02-02
San Jose, CA
·SONIC

bobrk to mityfowl

Premium Member

to mityfowl
said by mityfowl:

said by bobrk:

Actually, if the price is right, it could be a big deal, especially if they swapped it out before it failed and always gave you a very efficient one.

Gave you one?

When did the government or a monopoly give you something that you could have bought yourself for a 1/3 of the price in the long run!

When I said "gave" I meant "rent." It would be like leasing cars, I presume.

Ask the Canadian guy, not me. I bought my own.
XXXXXXXXXXX1
Premium Member
join:2006-01-11
Beverly Hills, CA

XXXXXXXXXXX1 to FiReSTaRT

Premium Member

to FiReSTaRT
said by FiReSTaRT:

The units in question were Rinnais but who knows, maybe they never bothered with proper adjustment, just put'em in and forgot about'em (the guys who did that don't usually play with residential appliances). They probably just needed hot water, space at a premium, insulating pipe too much work, so they slapped a couple on the wall and called it a day.

As for the flue gas temps.. Tankless units usually need special venting, while regular condensing HWT's and Cat-IV boilers are normally vented with PVC. Those are the units I'm talking about. In most cases, PVC isn't rated for the flue gas temps that those units put out, so you need to go with CPVC.

My Quietside has PVC piping for intake and exhaust venting. I attached a pic. It's been a great unit thus far!

FiReSTaRT
Premium Member
join:2010-02-26
Canada

FiReSTaRT

Premium Member

said by XXXXXXXXXXX1:

My Quietside has PVC piping for intake and exhaust venting. I attached a pic. It's been a great unit thus far!

Intake doesn't matter, you could even run the black stuff without any issues. For exhaust, I'd run the first 5' in CPVC. Water heaters and boilers have hotter flue gases than your typical Cat-IV forced air furnace. The PVC product that I've dealt with is rated up to 149, the CPVC product was rated to 190. If the flue gas temperatures exceed the rating, it causes too much expansion/contraction and it may eventually separate the joints, which causes flue gas spillage into occupied space. If you run CPVC for the first 5' of the exhaust, the flue gases cool down enough by the time they reach the PVC run that they're within specs for the material.

By the way guys, if you see your condensing appliances vented with the black stuff, get it changed out ASAP.. It's not rated for hot flue gases, the cement is weak and joints separate almost by looking at'em.

jig
join:2001-01-05
Hacienda Heights, CA

jig to tp0d

Member

to tp0d
i've been looking at the vertex, and i swear there is literature that states the 100kbtu version has 2 anodes, but the manuals only point to one. that, and i have no idea if it's 2' or 3' of clearance i would need to replace it/them.

sigh.