Technical > Computer Hardware Help > Troubleshooting a PSU

reply to Krisnatharok

Re: Troubleshooting a PSU

reply to koitsu

The Killawatt can show voltage, amperage, watts, watt-hours, and at least one more thing. Unfortunately, it's on the outside end of the PSU (between the PSU and the wall), so I have no idea what type of power the PSU is delivering to the computer.

I ended up getting home from work really late last night and didn't get a chance to play around with it last night. I have a new PSU coming on Thursday but I may pull out one of my own to test it on earlier than that.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

reply to Krisnatharok
I just spoke with my friend. When he contracted with the local shop to build this computer in 2010, he specifically asked for a Corsair PSU because he "heard they were good" (yeah, yeah, I know, cut the guy some slack).

It seems the local shop willfully mislead him and put the crappy Kingwin MK in there. I'm giving him the burnt-out PSU when I get the replacement on Thursday and he's going to try and hold the shop's feet to the fire and get it replaced.

The PSU is technically still under warranty, but I don't know if Kingwin will honor the warranty given that it was sold as a pre-built computer.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

Exactly why I hate buying--or recommending that others buy--pre-built computers. You end up losing a longer manufacturer's warranty for a shorter, more expensive 1-year warranty that involves giving up the entire computer (you'd have to give up or RMA the entire rig to the vendor).

Given what I know about this computer store, I am predicting that he will be stiffed, so his recourse will likely be a nasty online review and a complaint with the BBB.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

reply to Krisnatharok
Power supply testers will tell you if the PS is broken outright, but won't tell you anything about how it might behave under load.

To troubleshoot a PS under load, one needs a voltmeter (suitable ones can be had under $10) with proper probes, and/or some straightened paper clips for connection. Measuring voltage should uncover the majority of likely problems.

To measure noise, one would need either a scope, or perhaps a sensitive AC voltmeter.
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Wacky Races 2012!

reply to Krisnatharok
Have you tried resetting the CMOS? I've come across quite a few occasions where a system wouldn't boot (and it's not PSU related) and a CMOS reset fixed the issue.

Also, since the system is AM3 this may be related - I had the annoying experience with my previous EVGA Socket 939 system (Athlon X2) that would consistently report an overheating issue despite the heatsink being cool to the touch - reseated/reapplied TIM a couple of times without any change - looked like the sensor was just reading incorrectly...until I checked the heatsink retention bracket...EVGA (or I should say, Jetway) had cheaped out and used plastic push pins for the retention system which, while working, no longer provided a good cpu to heatsink mating (even though the heatsink also still appeared to be well installed when 'locked' in)..I replaced the retention with a bolted version (pulled from a 'cheaper' Asus 939 board) and the problem was solved (you can find retention brackets on ebay, etc.). System still running well as my daughters PC (after some bad caps were replaced as well).

So, once you sort the no-boot issue, if you're seeing an overheating issue, double check the retention system used on the MSI board...

The mobo this guy put in is a $50 POS: »www.msi.com/product/mb/785GM-P45.html

This board is so cheap it doesn't even have a CMOS reset button. It has a CMOS reset jumper: »download2.msi.com/files/download···v2.0.zip (page 2-18)

I'll admit I've had less time than I like to troubleshoot this system, but the new PSU showed up last night and verified that the problems run beyond just the PSU. I haven't tried the current one in another desktop, so that is on the menu for tonight, as well as disconnecting almost everything to try and get the mobo to boot. I'll also be trying a CPU re-seat.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

Took apart the computer, unplugged all the HDDs/ODDs, reseated the CPU, reset the CMOS via jumper, put in verified good RAM, put in the new PSU--no dice. Thing is still very dead.

I'm guessing it's either a bad power button (this mobo is so cheap there is no on/off or reset switch on it) or a blown mobo. My friend's asked me to order a new mobo for him regardless (guessing it was the 785G he got with one PCIe 2.0 slot when he asked the builder for SLI capability up front), so a 990X is on it's way.

On the off-chance that the power button on the HAF-912 was blown too, does anyone have an easy way to jump-start a mobo by shorting the right leads? I linked the mobo manual, just not sure on the execution, since electricity and I don't normally mix sans protection.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

You can quickly short the two on/off switch pins on the header where the power switch is connected with something like a screwdriver head. That is all the switch does.

A, perhaps less disconcerting approach, is to disonnect the on off switch and connect the reset switch in its place.
The reset switch is also a momentary switch and can be swapped with the power switch, connecting it to the on off pins. Then you just press the reset switch as you would the on off button to temporarily short the pins. Holding it down for a number of seconds should shut it down just as the on off button would do.

So I tried the reset switch on the power pins, as well as shorting the power pins with a screwdriver head and didn't get anything.

I'm guessing the mobo is fried, but I won't know if any damage was done to the CPU until the new mobo arrives, hopefully tomorrow.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

What are you planning on doing with the PSU now that the original may not be bad?

Throwing it in my friend's rig, as I am wary of hooking anything up to the Kingwin since I am still not sure if it is what caused the mobo to blow out.

I'll give him back the Kingwin and have him take that and the mobo back to the original vendor and give him a chance to buy the shit back from him, since my friend specifically stated a Corsair PSU and a mobo with SLI capability. He got the cheapo Kingwin PSU (not even bronze certified) and a $50 MSI AM3 mobo that lacks any multi-GPU capability (and even has only one PCIe 2.0 slot).

If the computer builder guy laughs him off, we'll both hit him with bad reviews on Google, lodge a complaint with the BBB, and then feed it to Reddit as well to devour.

This guy is making false promises to non-technical customers about the capabilities of the computers he is selling them and also agreeing to use name-brand components but putting the cheapest shit he can find in there--the mobo was probably around $50 (lacked the SLI/Crossfire capability he assured my friend it had), the PSU is unreliable (uncertified, cheaper than a 750w PSU should be), the ram is a mix of bargain Crucial and ADATA, cooler is stock, and he actually removed one of the two 120mm fans in the front of the HAF-912. This probably lead to some of the heat problems that may have precipitated the computer's failure (not helped by the Galaxy 560ti, a version of the card that runs a little hot).

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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

reply to Krisnatharok

Thanks for that one, it's a little different from a multi-meter. Also unless your in tech or computer repairs, you wouldn't even need to think of how to set up a test bed for loading parts.

Although an old computer laying around and try the power supply out to see if it is repeated might help; but then not everyone has a half dozen old boxes with no use for them that can afford to risk "live" testing. I always thought they would go to a good home, but with win 7 on the scene, they seem like wasted space sitting in the corner.
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke

So I ended up rebuilding my friend's computer. The mobo was definitely dead. The old PSU would power-on but I wasn't going to hook anything up to it lest it blow up more components. He's supremely happy with it and told me that it was the computer he should have gotten two years ago. At least he's learned his lesson about taking shifty salesmen at their word and double-checking that he gets what he pays for.

As a recap, here's what he was promised:
- Corsair PSU (he got a crappy Kingwin)
- SLI/Crossfire capability (chipset won't support either)
- Crucial ram (mixture of ADATA and something that looked like this)

Also of note is that the original vendor actually took out one of the two 12cm case fans at the front of the case.

Old Specs:
- MSI 785GM-P45 micro ATX mobo
- Kingwin 750w unrated PSU
- Mixture of ADATA and bargain Crucial memory (no heat spreaders)
- 2x 500 GB HDDs in Raid 1

Here are the computer's specs now:

- Cooler Master HAF912 Case (reused)
- Optical drive (reused)
- Galaxy GTX 560ti (reused)
- AMD Phenom II X6 1055t (reused)
- HDDs: 1x 500 GB (second one from RAID 1 array was toast), 1x 1 TB (external, whose case had died but the HDD was still good)
- GIGABYTE GA-990XA-UD3 AM3+ AMD 990X SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard
- CORSAIR XMS3 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory
- OCZ Vertex 3 VTX3-25SAT3-120G 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
- Western Digital Caviar Blue WD10EALX 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
- Rosewill HIVE Series HIVE-550 550W Continuous @40°C, 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified, Modular Design, Single +12V Rail, ATX12V v2.31/EPS12V v2.92, SLI Ready, CrossFire Ready, Active-PFC Power Supply

I also beefed up the HAF912's case fans from two 12cm to two 20cm, one 12cm, and one 14cm.

Happily, his OEM copy of Win7 Home reinstalled onto the SSD despite nearly everything in the computer (except the CPU and GPU, really) changing, without it requiring a phone call to MS to unlock.
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If we lose this freedom of ours, history will record with the greatest astonishment, those who had the most to lose, did the least to prevent its happening.

reply to Krisnatharok
I build all my own machines to make sure I never have this sort of issue.

I'm glad you got it all sorted out in the end.

I do too, and this just reinforced that desire.