 donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON |
to digitalfutur
Re: [Rant] Work locked down laptopOf course, but I need internet access to connect to it. I am not sure what you are getting at. To those who say I am complaining unnecessarily: 1. Wife's family cottage. 2. When on call I have to be able to connect to the servers if there is a problem. Also when on call and there are updates to install (which right now happens every Thursday at 3 AM - 7 AM and Saturday 6 AM to 5 PM) I have to have access to the servers. So I have to work on Saturday for part of the day. I would like to spend the rest of the time with my family, who will be at the cottage every weekend in the summer. |
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 DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
1 recommendation |
said by donoreo:I would like to spend the rest of the time with my family, who will be at the cottage every weekend in the summer.
What we would like and what we are able to do are very different things. I would like to retire, but that's not an option for a few years, yet. In talking to people in their 70's and 80's, especially women, who had cottages in "cottage country", they tell me it was normal, back in the day, for the women to decamp with the kids to the cottage for the whole summer, returning around Labour Day. The men would come up from the city (by train, in some cases) on Friday and head back on Sunday evening and work through the week in the city. No children were harmed by this state of affairs and the women developed strong bonds with their children and with each other. Being someone who works weekends (about 46-48 a year), my reaction is "And?" |
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 Wolfie007My dog is an elitist
Premium Member
join:2005-03-12 |
said by DKS:In talking to people in their 70's and 80's, especially women, who had cottages in "cottage country", they tell me it was normal, back in the day, for the women to decamp with the kids to the cottage for the whole summer, returning around Labour Day. The men would come up from the city (by train, in some cases) on Friday and head back on Sunday evening and work through the week in the city.
This is how I spent my summers as a kid. And IIRC the other cottages around the same lake were much the same. It seemed to me that this was just what everyone did in the summer. It was an enriching experience and is probably where I get my love of nature. |
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donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON |
to DKS
said by DKS:Being someone who works weekends (about 46-48 a year), my reaction is "And?"
You chose a job that works every Sunday and you knew it before you started. I was not aware I would be working all these weekends before I started. |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON |
said by donoreo:said by DKS:Being someone who works weekends (about 46-48 a year), my reaction is "And?"
You chose a job that works every Sunday and you knew it before you started. I was not aware I would be working all these weekends before I started. And job conditions change. You either roll with it or not. My wife was told when she started her job that she had to take weekend call once every 8 weeks. Now it's once every 4 weeks. |
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donoreo
Premium Member
join:2002-05-30
North York, ON |
donoreo
Premium Member
2012-Jun-14 9:39 am
said by DKS:said by donoreo:said by DKS:Being someone who works weekends (about 46-48 a year), my reaction is "And?"
You chose a job that works every Sunday and you knew it before you started. I was not aware I would be working all these weekends before I started. And job conditions change. You either roll with it or not. My wife was told when she started her job that she had to take weekend call once every 8 weeks. Now it's once every 4 weeks. How about you just shut up? You are not contributing anything to the topic of this thread and therefore are off topic. |
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DKSDamn Kidney Stones
join:2001-03-22
Owen Sound, ON
1 recommendation |
said by donoreo:How about you just shut up? You are not contributing anything to the topic of this thread and therefore are off topic.
No, my point is that the whole matter is truly small potatoes. You are angry because all of a sudden your weekends at the cottage aren't going to happen. Well, there are an awful lot of people who don't have a cottage, at all. You have a life of reasonable privilege. All of a sudden you lose your privilege. And? Sometimes life throws us things that aren't necessarily convenient or nice or what we want. On a scale of 1-10 in the curves of life, I give this a 2. You won't get much sympathy from me on this one. |
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 elwoodbluesElwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in |
I'm going to weigh in on this.
You take a job and no where in the job description and/or employment contract does it say you are required to be on call.
One day you are, Ok, so you try to make the best of it and still maintain a life (it's not like Donoero is a bachelor who goes and whoops it up every night)
I've been on call more then once in my life and frankly it sucks, you can't go anywhere, you can't do anything, in case that "phone rings".
To add to the misery of being on call, your corporate IT has decided that WiFi is now verboten,making it difficult to create makeshift solutions like using your phone as a hot spot. |
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 Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Jun-14 10:46 am
If one has gotten into something like this knowing what it entailed, complaining about it is rather stupid. However, if this wasn't part of the job description I could see being upset. IT seems to be the king of bait and switch when it comes to employers shafting employees into things they weren't told had to happen or never reasonably expected to happen.
But, at the same time, I work for a small family business. I haven't had a weekend off without a good reason for more than a year. I got last weekend off because my wisdom teeth were taken out - woo hoo. Working six days a week and not having a weekend off by default is something I've come to expect, and I don't exactly have sympathy for people merely because they don't have weekends off either. |
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 nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON |
to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:I'm going to weigh in on this.
You take a job and no where in the job description and/or employment contract does it say you are required to be on call.
One day you are, Ok, so you try to make the best of it and still maintain a life (it's not like Donoero is a bachelor who goes and whoops it up every night)
I've been on call more then once in my life and frankly it sucks, you can't go anywhere, you can't do anything, in case that "phone rings".
To add to the misery of being on call, your corporate IT has decided that WiFi is now verboten,making it difficult to create makeshift solutions like using your phone as a hot spot.
...I'm going to say that this echoes what I wanted to say earlier but just couldn't bring myself to say it....my previous employer did a bait and switch, started in 2008, no on call, then 2009, boom, you can either be on call, or feel free to leave. So, I stuck with it, for a year and a bit...I was miserable when I was on call, everyone hated me and didn't want to be near me...and ultimately, I quit after spending Canada day for 12 hours in a hot room because some people were incompetent (started at 7am, didn't actually leave till 8pm that same day) because it was a completely preventable situation. The moral of the story? You have to decide on whats important in life. I decided that my happiness was more important...switched careers, and I am ultimately happier even though I now work more night shifts and weekends then I have in my entire work career. It sucks for building interpersonal relationships, both with my 4 year old daughter and new girlfriend, but they understand my happiness was important. If the solution to this was to buy a $100 Wireless to Ethernet bridge, I'd do it if it meant going up to the camp (cottage for you guys), whining about not wanting to spend that much to me is not a viable excuse. We have offered you a multitude of options but you continue to plug along taking the path of greatest resistance when the solution is there. In regards to Wireless and VPNs, at said company, we did not support these things at all...while we left the wireless available to end users...I myself ran into issues sometimes with it when I was on call and remoted in to accept calls and whatnot....it'd be fine and sometimes it'd just drop the connection for no apparent reason. I just took it to be wireless interference from something, maybe my 80s microwave, who knows... Anywho, if you don't want to be on call, don't be on call, quit, go to EI, explain your situation and then pound the pavement. Or, continue on as you are. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in |
to Gone
said by Gone:If one has gotten into something like this knowing what it entailed, complaining about it is rather stupid. However, if this wasn't part of the job description I could see being upset. IT seems to be the king of bait and switch when it comes to employers shafting employees into things they weren't told had to happen or never reasonably expected to happen.
But, at the same time, I work for a small family business. I haven't had a weekend off without a good reason for more than a year. I got last weekend off because my wisdom teeth were taken out - woo hoo. Working six days a week and not having a weekend off by default is something I've come to expect, and I don't exactly have sympathy for people merely because they don't have weekends off either.
But as you said, it's a family business, and it will be yours (or partially yours) one day. So it's in your best interest to make sure it stays solvent, if that means working weekends.. so be it. When your son (and if you have more kids) is old enough to enter the workforce (yeah I know that's a way off) you can have weekends off again. |
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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
to nitzguy
said by nitzguy:The moral of the story? You have to decide on whats important in life. I decided that my happiness was more important...switched careers, and I am ultimately happier even though I now work more night shifts and weekends then I have in my entire work career. This. I work longer hours, get paid less, but I am happier and feel more fulfilled than I ever have in my life. I never want to work in IT again. |
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| Gone |
to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:But as you said, it's a family business, and it will be yours (or partially yours) one day. So it's in your best interest to make sure it stays solvent, if that means working weekends.. so be it. When your son (and if you have more kids) is old enough to enter the workforce (yeah I know that's a way off) you can have weekends off again. Well that's exactly it. I have a vested interest in the operation. But you know what? I love every minute of it. I wouldn't want it any other way, even though the idea of having a Saturday to myself is a foreign concept. Saturdays are my favourite days at the store. You can kick back and everyone you encounter is in a great mood. I enjoy being here more on the weekend than I do at home, haha. And really, I doubt I'll ever truly have weekends off, because my father-in-law has been in the business for 30 years, is pushing 60 years old and he is still in here with me on the weekend. When Willy is old enough and if he chooses to come in here, I'll be here at his side just like my FIL is with me now. It's just the way you live. It has its drawbacks, but the benefits are enormous. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in |
to Gone
said by Gone:said by nitzguy:The moral of the story? You have to decide on whats important in life. I decided that my happiness was more important...switched careers, and I am ultimately happier even though I now work more night shifts and weekends then I have in my entire work career. This. I work longer hours, get paid less, but I am happier and feel more fulfilled than I ever have in my life. I never want to work in IT again. That is the important thing.. I myself am getting very tired of it, the demands are getting out of hand. I saw one job posted today (and I wouldn't be surprised if there was someone who had it all) they wanted a MSCE, CCNA, CCIE and as an added bonus, a Vmware certification. WTF, I'm pretty good at what I do, but who the hell has the time, let alone the money to pursue all these certifications. |
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said by Gone:Saturdays are my favourite days at the store. You can kick back and everyone you encounter is in a great mood. I enjoy being here more on the weekend than I do at home, haha.
HAH same here. I get more done on Saturday's because I hardly receive any business calls and I can work at my own pace on whatever I want to work on... it's like a day off. said by elwoodblues:I saw one job posted today (and I wouldn't be surprised if there was someone who had it all) they wanted a MSCE, CCNA, CCIE and as an added bonus, a Vmware certification.
WTF, I'm pretty good at what I do, but who the hell has the time, let alone the money to pursue all these certifications.
They're actually pretty easy and would cost you less than $2,000 if you include the books at a non-sale price.  The local community college has a year long program that involves you getting those certifications so that even the less experienced, less capable people can get them. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in
1 edit |
I don't know about that, if you are talking about no courses, and just self learning and tests, perhaps.
The last few courses I took that took me part of the way to an MSCE ,were over 800 bucks at a local Community college and that was years ago.
A MCSE is composed of 7 tests and run roughly $100-125 each. So lets just say $700
CCNA costs your $250
CCIE (unless I read it wrong) $2350
I'm already over 2K and I haven't gotten to books and equipment yet.
My "server" downstairs which I use for ESX cost me over $1000 and that was off lease, with extra memory I bought and my own hard drives. |
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Wolfie007My dog is an elitist
Premium Member
join:2005-03-12 |
to Gone
said by Gone:said by elwoodblues:But as you said, it's a family business, and it will be yours (or partially yours) one day. So it's in your best interest to make sure it stays solvent, if that means working weekends.. so be it. When your son (and if you have more kids) is old enough to enter the workforce (yeah I know that's a way off) you can have weekends off again. Well that's exactly it. I have a vested interest in the operation. But you know what? I love every minute of it. I wouldn't want it any other way, even though the idea of having a Saturday to myself is a foreign concept. Saturdays are my favourite days at the store. You can kick back and everyone you encounter is in a great mood. I enjoy being here more on the weekend than I do at home, haha. And really, I doubt I'll ever truly have weekends off, because my father-in-law has been in the business for 30 years, is pushing 60 years old and he is still in here with me on the weekend. When Willy is old enough and if he chooses to come in here, I'll be here at his side just like my FIL is with me now. It's just the way you live. It has its drawbacks, but the benefits are enormous. That has most of the hallmarks of being de facto self-employed. And that's what self-employment typically looks like: you work harder than ever, but you do it on your own terms and because you want to and feel you're part of something, and are constrained only by the nature of the business itself. Self-employment is more about satisfaction than about freedom -- the folks I know who work for themselves have less free time than anyone. It's generally the salaried folks who are complacent goof-offs, and they're also the ones with high blood pressure. |
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to elwoodblues
I wrote all the Comptia A+, Server+, Security+, Network+, Bullshit+ tests from experience. The majority of MCSE tests I wrote from experience with the exception of the smallest book, I think AD related, which wound up being the hardest test, I read twice. The Cisco stuff I had to read back to back a few times.
If you have lots of free time, just read the damn books over and over, buy a used device off eBay and learn learn learn until it's old hat. Then go write the test.
The tests are easy when you actually know what you're doing from experience...
Seriously, stop posting on here and go read. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in |
said by urbanriot 
Seriously, stop posting on here and go read.
Almost forgot.. you took your tests during the multiple guess days (like I did) right? Those are gone, you need to actually know what you are doing now, not just what's in the book (in other words hands on). |
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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
to urbanriot
said by urbanriot:I wrote all the Comptia A+, Server+, Security+, Network+, Bullshit+ tests from experience. The majority of MCSE tests I wrote from experience with the exception of the smallest book, I think AD related, which wound up being the hardest test, I read twice. The Cisco stuff I had to read back to back a few times.
If you have lots of free time, just read the damn books over and over, buy a used device off eBay and learn learn learn until it's old hat. Then go write the test.
The tests are easy when you actually know what you're doing from experience...
Seriously, stop posting on here and go read. Pfft, he doesn't even need to do that. If he is truly good at what he does and can demonstrate his knowledge of these things, any decent employer will look at the potential employee and the benefits they bring to the company before they consider the need for a piece of papers. Certifications are only useful for big corporations and government agencies who have their hiring done by someone who has no clue how the business works and needs to find a way to throw half the resumes they receive into the recycle bin. That's just a fact. Besides - and I know you'll agree with this - the "Microsoft Way" of doing things in those cert tests is usually so backward and redundant that if you were to follow that way of doing things you'd never get anything done and wouldn't have two clues how to fix anything when it breaks. If I ran my own IT company I'd look at people with practical and demonstrable experience, not people who hand me a binder filled with Microsoft certification certificates. My biggest problem with doing the certs was that I had a better way of doing things than the tests expected you to know. |
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| Gone |
to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:Those are gone, you need to actually know what you are doing now, not just what's in the book (in other words hands on). Good! About bloody time. The whole reason I hated those stupid exams is because I needed to re-learn everything when I already knew how to do it but it wasn't word-for-word what they wanted on the multiple choice tests. Still, I will never write one of those cert tests again in my life, so the point is moot, haha. |
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elwoodbluesElwood Blues
Premium Member
join:2006-08-30
Somewhere in |
Exactly I remember the "Official" Microsoft stance for shared folders on a workstation was 10, but we all knew it went way beyond that. |
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elwoodblues
1 edit |
to Gone
said by Gone:Pfft, he doesn't even need to do that. If he is truly good at what he does and can demonstrate his knowledge of these things, any decent employer will look at the potential employee and the benefits they bring to the company before they consider the need for a piece of papers.
The problem is that the HR person is looking for a MCSE a CCNA a CCIE and a VCP (in the above example) at the request of the hiring manager. Not on your resume, it goes into the trash folder. So assuming I can do all just the same, I'm still not getting past HR because I don't have those titles? beside my name or I can't demonstrate on my resume that I've gotten them. Remember HR knows SFA, and are scanning for the keywords that match the job description. A small business, for sure, but not a larger company. It's not that cut and dry. |
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TP-Link Archer C7
Technicolor DCM476
Grandstream HT701
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to donoreo
said by donoreo:How about you just shut up? You are not contributing anything to the topic of this thread and therefore are off topic.
Deal with it. If you whine and complain in a public forum be prepared to hear the comments. Your comments in this thread and other threads about your job issues really make you sound like a very spoiled person. Just saying. |
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nitzguy
Premium Member
join:2002-07-11
Sudbury, ON |
to Gone
said by Gone:said by nitzguy:The moral of the story? You have to decide on whats important in life. I decided that my happiness was more important...switched careers, and I am ultimately happier even though I now work more night shifts and weekends then I have in my entire work career. This. I work longer hours, get paid less, but I am happier and feel more fulfilled than I ever have in my life. I never want to work in IT again. We...agree on something? Wow...I need to write this down lol. So yup, work weekends, work nights, but again, I love my new job and would hate to do anything else at this point. I'm not self-employed, I'd like to be, but I lack 2 key ingredients...capital, and...a good idea  . Maybe someday, but for now, I'm just happy to be working as there are those who are out there who don't have work and who are scraping by...and I'm happy to get as much time with my daughter as I do, and even at 4 she understands that daddy has to work so that he can have food and clothes and an "adpartment"...she's so cute when she says that...I'm working on correcting it long term of course lol. I'm sure your children would think the same way, and if you don't have time at "the cottage", well I don't equate time at the cottage/camp with a better lifestyle to be honest....but I guess its all about priorities. |
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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
to elwoodblues
It is that cut and dry, because if the "hiring manager" has to outsource hiring to an HR manager and requests that they be that rigid with pieces of paper that have about as much practical usefulness as a piece of toilet paper, it's not a company I want to work for. The "hiring manager" him/herself is probably incompetent, too. |
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I have to agree with previous posters on the credentials thing, as HR goes off a mental points list where the person that looks best on paper is usually the person they hire as, if that person fucks up, they can claim the person looked great on paper.
Degree, check. Credentials? Great! Experience? Sure, that's a bonus.
Most places have HR buffering the management people from the majority of the hirees, and people in management review the few that HR figured looked good on paper. I went through piles of these in the late 90's / early 2000's for contractual jobs and I admit to doctoring my resume considerably, to get access to the management people, after which I'd advise them that my resume wasn't accurate to the truth so I could get past HR and they never cared. One project manager once said, "good, we wanted someone with real experience anyhow!" |
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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Jun-14 6:11 pm
Padding one's resume works great. I've done the same thing and it's never been an issue once I actually got to talk to the people that mattered, because they're the ones who can realistically evaluate your skills and experience. |
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to elwoodblues
said by elwoodblues:The problem is that the HR person is looking for a MCSE a CCNA a CCIE and a VCP (in the above example) at the request of the hiring manager. Not on your resume, it goes into the trash folder. So assuming I can do all just the same, I'm still not getting past HR because I don't have those titles? beside my name or I can't demonstrate on my resume that I've gotten them. Remember HR knows SFA, and are scanning for the keywords that match the job description. A small business, for sure, but not a larger company. It's not that cut and dry. So? Start lower on the totem pole. I work every day with guys who finished high school, worked a crap job and then landed in IT somehow because they were hard working and yes lucky / personable / attractive as well. They get a course or two reimbursed while they're at the bottom a move up a rung every few years. My take is that you either have the ability to take a block of time to go to school for these things full-time (i.e. fresh from high school or life changing event that forces retraining, etc.) OR you build it up and move up over time. Even if you can't get it paid by your employer, the investment of $5k to pass a CCIE (books, materials, bootcamp course) will give you a return if you can make use of it. |
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Gone
Premium Member
join:2011-01-24
Fort Erie, ON |
Gone
Premium Member
2012-Jun-15 9:10 am
said by freejazz_RdJ:My take is that you either have the ability to take a block of time to go to school for these things full-time (i.e. fresh from high school or life changing event that forces retraining, etc.) OR you build it up and move up over time. Even if you can't get it paid by your employer, the investment of $5k to pass a CCIE (books, materials, bootcamp course) will give you a return if you can make use of it. So what you're saying is that if someone already has skills and can demonstrate those skills you want them to waste their money and, more importantly, time just for a piece of paper, and that you hold that piece of paper in higher value than the actual skills that they demonstrate? You pretty just summarized why I think the whole industry is centred around a bunch of bullshit, and this one of a few reasons why I never want to work in it again unless I'm working for myself. |
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. Maybe someday, but for now, I'm just happy to be working as there are those who are out there who don't have work and who are scraping by...and I'm happy to get as much time with my daughter as I do, and even at 4 she understands that daddy has to work so that he can have food and clothes and an "adpartment"...she's so cute when she says that...I'm working on correcting it long term of course lol.